New Player Looking For Advice, Character Concept and Rambling Thoughts Options

[Stahlseele]

Active Skill: Fast Talking < =
That combined with a Story and a good enough SIN will get you in.
18 Karma ain't that hard. Usually, 3 to 4 Runs in, you can have it together.
And Adepts have to Specialise to really shine. They were not really meant for generalim concept characters.
That's the plane of the mundane.
Jack of all trades master of none, because no karma for magical stuff and no worrying about essence so implants that give bonuses to most things.
I think the Cost for improved reflexes got dropped in SR$.5 to 1/3/5, but i could be wrong about that. Probably am.

[CanadianWolverin...]

Active Skill: Fast Talking < =
That combined with a Story and a good enough SIN will get you in.
18 Karma ain't that hard. Usually, 3 to 4 Runs in, you can have it together.
And Adepts have to Specialise to really shine. They were not really meant for generalim concept characters.
That's the plane of the mundane.
Jack of all trades master of none, because no karma for magical stuff and no worrying about essence so implants that give bonuses to most things.
I think the Cost for improved reflexes got dropped in SR$.5 to 1/3/5, but i could be wrong about that. Probably am.

I think you are right about cost drop, I think others had mentioned it, and I think I saw that in the online, what is it called, errata. I call it SR4.5 but I think I saw it called SR4A. I asked my GM about getting the lower costing Adept Powers but unfortunately he basicly put it like "What I have in this book here is what I am going with.". That pretty much means he isn't taking the update into account, so unfortunately I have to stick with the higher cost to my Adept Powers. Hehe, the power gamer in me cries.

But don't get me wrong, not choked up about it, just going to try not to default and reduce my glaring weaknesses, especially since some of my team mates are being less than cooperative in making up for my character's negatives. To progress I think I am going to need those social skills you mention, along with some more covert means - right now I think my character would be best suited to low level assasinations (pistols/sniper) but otherwise is a complete dud when it comes social influence, information gathering, electronics, vehicles, drones, magic, break & entering, etc.

[Stahlseele]

Yeah, most people are calling it SR4A.
Most people are seemingly not too fond of DND, especially the .5 Version.
I ain't too fond of the SR4 Version.
Notice how i swapped the 4 for the $ sign?
It's all a play on Words more or less ^^

Yeah, that's his good right to do . .
Buy one of the SR$.5 Versions that look like his book and switch em out, when he's not looking *snickers* ^^

[Generico]

Traditionally when people replace one letter with a $ it's the S.

Like $R4.5 or M$ or $ony.

But I don't know much about crazy German traditions so whatever.

[Aaron]

I ain't too fond of the SR4 Version.
Notice how i swapped the 4 for the $ sign?
It's all a play on Words more or less ^^

That's better than a play on words, that's a play on QWERTY. Nice.

Personally, I get a kick out of people who call the game SR4.5. Having switched from D&D 3.0 to 3.5 in mid-campaign, I appreciate the hyperbole.

Anyway, if you have a good GM, don't worry too much about covering every base. IC, people wouldn't hire you for things you were incapable of doing, and OOC, your GM shouldn't be throwing anything you can't handle in some way (even if only to run away).

[CanadianWolverin...]

Well, it looks like my run in the shadows is over. My days of dungeon running too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Last game night seemed like it started off good, another player who is a nice if not quirky fellow (he sort of jokingly [at least I know I am trying to be fun with him] to 'Shut up' on D&D nights, especially when he brings up wangs - he brought up troll wangs this night (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) and the game was reset to the very start to accomidate aka that whole last game session two weeks ago never happened for our characters.

Introductions didn't really happen, but I did make sure to ask about the new character, Meat, a troll with a penchant for bows, blades, and armor, apparently a former enforcer. Cool, cool ... but that is pretty much where the cool stopped for my game night. After that, we get contacted by a new Mr. J through our supposed 'leader' Lancaster - again apparently because of charisma score not contacts. So, Mr. J meets us at some 'swanky' joint, where they have us check our weapons, though there were some hidden on the others but no rolls were made to determine as such if they were successful sneaking the weapons in, just automatic. Some humor was had over the weapons master, Pyskis, dumping a fully stocked armory in their lap. Since they were checking weapons, I had my character stay outside and guard our vehicles. Lancaster talks with the Mr. J, very rudely again and again this is 'cool' with the Mr. J as being "I like a man who is direct and to the point" - Mr J wants our team of shadowrunners to hijack a boat that of his competitors that is off loading at a suspicious derilict port so that he can take possession of the cargo the next evening and he will pay the members of the team 15000 Y each for the job. So the team collects their weapons at the door and tells Eagle Eye (me) the score - my response is to say that the job sounds too risky with so little time to scout and gear up appropriately, so to negotiate with the Mr J for more intel and water related equipment to get the job done, even possibly taking the ship in question in transit where there may be fewer corp security to deal with than at the derelict dock.

This is where the klaxon sirens went off in my IRL head: Lancaster marches back into the Mr. J and tells him most of the team is cool with the job except for one, who wants water related gear and intel, mocking Eagle Eye and singling him out for embarassment in front of the Mr J. This is where things went out of character, the GM turns to me and scolds me for wasting his time, saying my role playing was completely unneccisary, that I shouldn't worry about planning all the angles because he won't throw anything at us we can't handle - Note that statement for later. I try to explain I was only roleplaying and to relax, I would knock it off, thinking to myself that I will let it slide because I don't think OoC drama at game night is any kind of fun. He says he understands and thanks me.

So from there on and now that I think back on it to the night before it was going on then too and I was just trying to let it slide then too, I gotta suffer through every move my character is successful at being said in a tone which is like the sound of and accompanied by the rolling of eyes. I think he, maybe even they, thought my character was a Munchkin. The kicker was really in the moment when I started using Take Aim and Called Shot to do head shots on the guards that were alerted by the others - "I don't like it, I don't like it at all." to quote the GM.

[Stahlseele]

Congratulations. You won Shadowrun. Here i thought it was impossible O.o
But you succeeded! o.O And not even in the bad way people usually mean!
You were actually role-playing and STILL doing better rules-wise than the other.
With enough effectivity to get the GM to mutter such things . . i am highly impressed ^^
You sir . . or madam . . or whatever . . seem to be very promising *grins*
you will fit right in with the rest of us lot. and start looking for a better group i'd say.

[CanadianWolverin...]

Congratulations. You won Shadowrun. Here i thought it was impossible O.o
But you succeeded! o.O And not even in the bad way people usually mean!
You were actually role-playing and STILL doing better rules-wise than the other.
With enough effectivity to get the GM to mutter such things . . i am highly impressed ^^
You sir . . or madam . . or whatever . . seem to be very promising *grins*
you will fit right in with the rest of us lot. and start looking for a better group i'd say.

Heh, thanks Stahlseele, your post has cheered me up some. Sure, I am still bummed a bit that my IRL meat space self has a low charisma score and underdeveloped social skills, thus making it a bit tough to make friends - I have Contacts sure, but their Loyalty rating is pretty much consistently around 1 aka I call them but they don't call me, I reach out the hand in friendship but the action is not reciprocated. *sigh* If more character in games were affected like I am, I think there would be a whole lot more characters trying to be "Face", somehow I just manage to rub other people's vibes the wrong way unintentionally - I sure as hell would avoid walking through any gang territory if I was aware of it as such, I would pretty much guarantee that I would end up in a fight or worse just by being present, experienced as much growing up on the wrong side of the tracks and in the lowest income bracket, so to speak. I definitely try to look around in any new area I enter for signs of the elementary and highschool vibes I grew up with a bit like this: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/self-defense.htm *shudder*

The story didn't end with having the GM speak aloud his displeasure, next up was the camouflage suited sport rifle Sniper on the other end of the freighter we were highjacking. For whatever reason, the Corp Sec on the docked boat had not helped out their brethren we shot down in the derelict dock area, we even had time for a bit of looting and intel gathering, instead they waited for us to board - where we were asked to roll Perception (Visual). Well, managed to notice a few of them and the 2nd camo suited Sniper who was on another crane, this time the boat's, which I promptly (first in Initiative, 11+5 iirc) took care of with a Take Aim / Called Shot so that we would be safe from harm. The other 2 Corp Sec took note of the sound of the Ex-Ex round from my Gunslinger dropping the poor hidden sniper above us, though were slow enough about it that we looted him when his body and weapon fell down. So, they go after me with some bursts but Eagle Eye (me) uses up a Initiative Pass (Complex Action) to go Full Defense (Reaction + Dodge[Ranged]) and miss with their SMG rounds from the railing above us. So the others go and start putting rounds down range at these two poor saps of Sec and Meat (Troll) does some cool running, damage absorbing, and slashing again. Then the other camo suited Corp Sec Sniper at the other end of the boat that no one noticed with the Perception goes: "Eagle Eye, roll body/armor, you've been surprised by the Sniper no one noticed"

At this point I should probably mention in a bit more detail the other Sniper that we encountered hidden on the derelict dock's crane, specifically that Pyskis who that bugger took a shot at was allowed to roll Reaction at least. At the time I was kinda exasperated, given the demeanor of the GM with my characters successful actions which is directly inverse to the demeanor he would have with other characters successful actions, especially Lancaster, thus highlighting this for myself intuitively. You see, when he scolded me and my inner klaxon started wailing that the social bombs were falling on London town, I started to notice the behavior that I had previously just let slide like water off a ducks back - to date, I suddenly realized I couldn't recall a time in D&D where any of my characters could be considered the hero of the moment, let alone hour. I had previously attributed this to my inexperience and unfamiliarity with the rule set in being able to express and convey the actions of my character and feel like I was contributing to the well being of the group (that is also why I tried to be a cleric after my monk finally decided to no longer use his speed to get out of a bad situation and died, he wanted to try to rescue his fellow party members for a change instead of leaving the poor bastards to die at the hands of ice hydras, undead hobgoblins, and goblin cleric slaves to a dragon [who Total Party Killed the next group of adventurers who came along too]) and that the other players were all familiar with the ruleset, helping me learn and providing advice, but now I wonder if it wasn't something else. There were certainly none of the chuckles and smiles others seemed to garner, especially the one character of the now GM who was this brutally devastating Fighter who ended up being a Were-cat thanks to failing a saving throw during the games Lancaster's player would DM.

So, at this point, intuition setting in that my character has been labeled 'too powerful' in the mind of the GM and perhaps Lancaster's player, knowing his own DM style, I had given up - I just wanted this Sniper to blow Eagle Eye's brain out the back of his skull, pick up my pencil, paper, D6s and book with thoughts of home and my daughter's bed time story. But I guess this Sniper didn't Take Aim and Called Shot because Eagle Eye gets smoked for only 5 damage (that knocks down a character with Body 4, right?). Then the DM asks me to roll Reaction since the second Simple Action is coming and surely Eagle Eye is aware of it by now, so I ask if I get to roll Reaction, can I use Eagle Eye's last IP to go full defense for this shot from the Sniper. In response, he cracks his book open and flips through some pages and starts reading while I wait in uncomfortable silence. "Oh, surprise lasts a whole IP, so just roll Body + Armor again" GM says. In my head I am thinking now, wait, I remember the part on Surprise, shouldn't Eagle Eye have gotten a Surprise Test, especially with Improved Senses: Scent? Oh well, I hope the Sniper does the deed, lets just end this already and I roll no hits, so take full damage ... 7 P. And then Eagle Eye is out, I was thinking dead and said as much. "Eagle Eye, we hardly knew you." GM glibly remarks.

Then I remembered Physical Damage Overflow. Oh, he is not dead, just dying and needs to be stabilized or every 4 combat turns he takes a point of Physical damage until he reaches 15 Physical Damage at which point he is apparently toasted over drinks by his fellow runners at some nondescript bar. Damn it, why did I feel the need to help these other new players be aware of these things at this point? I feel a bit silly about still thinking about the other's enjoyment now, it was like I was just trying to salvage the worst game night I had ever had at this point.

I don't blame Shadowrun rules, I think it actually a far better setting than what I have played with in D&D. I had been looking forward to playing Shadowrun for years, its really too bad this wasn't working out on the social scale of things. I don't even think bad of the person who was being the GM, I still think of him as a nice guy, I just managed to annoy him inadvertently, my poor social graces perhaps, an unintentional negative vibe. *sigh* That's low charisma score for ya, I can only imagine what a determent negative modifiers would be if the social tests were actually used, NPCs would aggro on your character's ass in a heartbeat for even minor gaffs and oddities in their personality, Contacts and other friends in the shadows would be embarrassingly hard to come by, and when you would want the character to be noticed they would be overlooked like as if they had both the Uncouth, Bland, and Bad Luck qualities all working in concert to sabotage just about any social test.

Well, the rest of the team conquers and Lancaster convinces (with flare and smiles from others, no rolls made) the Captain to sail them to the cargo's new destination as requested by the Mr J. Lancaster loots my unconscious character a bit and Pyskis (the character's player who originally got me into the game night, thanks to my much higher charisma score wife [don't ask, Love apparently does funny things to Charisma scores in the eye's of the beholder], I'm going to miss playing with her, she's a great fictional writer and a lot of fun IMHO) amazingly manages to stabilize Eagle Eye with his own medical kit (rating 6) despite a bunch of negatives and even gets him to her Contact, a Street Doc, who costs 1500 Y of the 15000 Y earned to do his thing, and now apparently (no rolls made) Eagle Eye is recovering for 2 weeks game time. Needless to say, my character's last action was buying a Doc Wagon Contract and then recuperating while watching action movies in AR, cleaning his pistols, and contacting his Fixer with a "grocery" list of equipment - which he will never use seeing as I am aware of my social standing now. Edit: Oh yeah, and there was no Karma awarded for the mission/job. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

If interested, let me know if you want me to show you what the "grocery" list was going to be if approved by the GM (Ha!).

Well, here's hoping you are all having fun in the shadows and if there are any suggestions on how I might find another local SR group to play with, it would be greatly appreciated by this Gamer Dad.

[Stahlseele]

Try ONE other Character. If the same happens, with the other players / the Gm being a dick, why not be a dick to them too?
TPK does not come from the hands of the DM most of the time in Shadowrun. After that, burning bridges and all that stuff.
And yes, show us that Grocery List. Look around this board, i think i saw some thready about groups looking for players.
If you're lucky, you might find someone from this board to play with.

[Cardul]

OK...so, I agree with Stahlseele, here. It seems, basicly, because you actually did some consultation with people who have been playing the game longer then everyone in your group has...

You made a very good character, and one that would do good in any game I ran. However, no-one had ANY extra IP? Seriously?

OK, so...I recommend making a character loaded up with Perception boosting stuff, first. Second, go with no extra IP, and a big, heavy pistol, like a Ruger Warhawk. Make sure you have decent body armour, of course. I would go with an Ork if the group doesn't have one.

Well, that is what I would do if I was trying to go with that group...However, GM's that are out to get you GENERALLY do not make me want to come back...

Is there, by chance, a game store in your area? It actually sounds(since you have been the Rules person, effectively) that you MIGHT be as at home GMing as playing...and, best place to recruit players is...a game store.

[Stahlseele]

But he/she/it wants to have fun playing, not herding the kindergarden that we can become it seems ^^

[CanadianWolverin...]

Don't get me wrong though, I sure wasn't looking to be rules lawyer, I probably just had more time to read through the book a few times than the other players/GM, I wasn't getting everything right and would ask for clarification, like when I made a thread about shooting around corners in 2070 tech, let alone current methods IRL. We are all newbie, I think it just boils down to IRL vibes creeping into it unfortunately. These things can't always work out between conflicting personalities when the other party involved has no desire to go beyond Loyalty rating 1 (friendly invites brushed off and so forth) and it is kinda hard to ignore now that I have come to the conclusion that the water is starting to ruffle the feathers of duck. Friggin oil. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Thanks for the advice on the finding of a group, I will look more into the threads here regarding that. Unfortunately, I have found the couple of local game stores Nanaimo has to be somewhat unreceptive to finding other players, it was years of inquiry just to find this group who would be receptive to a newbie. Heh, this is why I love games like NeverWinter Nights (1&2), I would so love it if Shadowrun had its own online game worthy of the setting, makes finding other players a breeze when they can come together from several timezones, nationalities - a far cry from trying to meet other like minded individuals within the confines of our society so centered around personal space and personal vehicle - speaking of which, unless we find someway to bring back the old school life styles formed around walking distances rather than car driving distances when fuel prices sky rocket even more, there is going to be some serious break down in our society that we take for granted as being connected remotely via the personal vehicle, which is a luxury item if you ask any poor folks such as myself, can't wait till that debt is paid.

I would be more than willing to DM or GM, I have lots of fun ideas for settings and npcs that would be a nice sandbox for player's characters to go paint the town red in, but unfortunately, there is that whole thing of a low charisma score I live with - making contacts, let alone friends, is frustratingly difficult for myself. In fact, the lady who introduced me to this group I am done with is really more of a friend of my wife, who everyone seems to like and she makes friends easily. That's also why I am convinced she will go farther with her career ambitions than myself, being far more of a people person and also seems to have a higher Edge score, winning lottery tickets and that sort of thing, but suffers from a far lower Body, Agility, Reaction, and Strength scores than myself, like I love hiking, swimming, bodyboarding, biking, martial arts, hunting, etc.

Heh, its much more fun to think of real life people with Shadowrun stats, which reminds me of Fallout 1&2, than with D&D stats.

[nylanfs]

Hey CW, why don't you check out Fantasy Grounds since there isn't anyone living close to you. It's a Virtual Tabletop program that lets you play with other distant people, it also has a fan-made ShadowRun mod.

[Lojack]

The story didn't end with having the GM speak aloud his displeasure, next up was the camouflage suited sport rifle Sniper on the other end of the freighter we were highjacking. For whatever reason, the Corp Sec on the docked boat had not helped out their brethren we shot down in the derelict dock area, we even had time for a bit of looting and intel gathering, instead they waited for us to board - where we were asked to roll Perception (Visual). Well, managed to notice a few of them and the 2nd camo suited Sniper who was on another crane, this time the boat's, which I promptly (first in Initiative, 11+5 iirc) took care of with a Take Aim / Called Shot so that we would be safe from harm. The other 2 Corp Sec took note of the sound of the Ex-Ex round from my Gunslinger dropping the poor hidden sniper above us, though were slow enough about it that we looted him when his body and weapon fell down. So, they go after me with some bursts but Eagle Eye (me) uses up a Initiative Pass (Complex Action) to go Full Defense (Reaction + Dodge[Ranged]) and miss with their SMG rounds from the railing above us. So the others go and start putting rounds down range at these two poor saps of Sec and Meat (Troll) does some cool running, damage absorbing, and slashing again. Then the other camo suited Corp Sec Sniper at the other end of the boat that no one noticed with the Perception goes: "Eagle Eye, roll body/armor, you've been surprised by the Sniper no one noticed"

It is hard to referee this situation, but once the second sniper acted the ENTIRE PARTY should have made a surprise test against the second sniper with a +3 bonus since they already discovered the other sniper (the sniper however gets a +6 to his roll). Somebody could have shouted a warning or you could have made another perception check, or, gone before the sniper. Also, your full defense lasts until your next initiative pass, while you can't use full defense when surprised, you had declared it already to dodge other attacks, so your Full Defense should have counted. Even if it had not, the GM still has to roll dice for the shot against your Reaction, there are no autohits (the attacker could miss, botch, or blow your head clean off). All of this is probably a moot point, as it sounds like the GM was gunning for you. Ninja snipers are a poor way to challenge players, and had he TPK'd the entire party with them, I'm sure nobody would have had fun. GM's have access to nuclear weapons, dragons, and ewoks, it is trivial for a GM to kill a player, he can have a Bust-A-Move crawl out of your toilet tank at 3AM and stick an icepick in your ear...boy, wasn't that fun, my oh my. Killing players isn't a mark of a good GM, challenging players with opponents that tax their skills is (leave the killing of players up to themselves, they are pretty good at it). It is unfortunate that you have found such a disagreeable group to game with, they may improve once they have accepted you into the tribe, but I doubt it, good groups are hard to find. I wish you luck.

Lojack

[CanadianWolverin...]

Hey CW, why don't you check out Fantasy Grounds since there isn't anyone living close to you. It's a Virtual Tabletop program that lets you play with other distant people, it also has a fan-made ShadowRun mod.

Thanks a ton (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

So, the "grocery" list, for your viewing pleasure. Eagle Eye called up his Elf Fixer (Loyalty 4 Connection 4) and ordered these fine products after he had a Standard Doc Wagon Contract ordered:

For the Commlink:
- Datasoft 6
- Mapsoft 6
For the Ruger 100 he looted he wanted to trade it in and get a Ruger 100 with:
- 5 reg ammo
- Silencer
- Smart Gun/Smartlink: Improved Camera: Vision 3, Flare, Thermo, Low, Mag
- Carry Case, Sling
He had looted the Camo Suit off the headless sniper and wanted to sew some stuff onto it and fill the pockets:
- Tag Eraser (Just in case any of his fellow runners decided to tag his person or suzuki motorcycle)
- Holo Projector (Duke Nukem 3D, hehe...)
- Survival Kit (Heh, the character was going to leave town, this team rolls like a bunch of Orc Gangers!)
- Biomonitor (His health is a bit more of a concern now, dodging isn't enough - can't spend the nuyen if you are dead)
- Sensor Package: Helmet/Armor:
-- Radio Signal Scanner 6 (No point in tag erasing if I am unaware of the tags)
-- MAD Scanner 3
-- Cyberware Scanner 6
-- Atmosphere Sensor 3
-- Geiger Counter
Additional Armor concerns given the whole Sniper incident:
- Helmet (Motorcross like, to function as a anti-face recognition mask as well, with this addition)
-- Gas Mask
- Ballistic Shield
- Long Duster "Cowboy" Jacket to replace the now pawned/traded/sold Lined Coat conceal modifier
Trade/Sell the Contact Lenses for an improved set of sensor, even if some of it ends up on some of the helmet's protective face shield:
- Improved Contact Lenses:
-- Smart & Image Link, Vision 3, Ultra, Mag, Flare, Thermo
Trade/Sell the Earbuds same reasons as above:
- Improved Earbuds:
-- Audio Enhance 3
-- Spatial
-- Select Sound Filter 3
Trade/Sell the Colt Manchester Smartguns, better understanding of the limits of dual pistols has the character going single pistol for his Gunslinging needs but wants improvements:
- Improved Colt Man: Smartgun/Smartlink Camera Improved:
-- Vision 3, Vision Mag, Ultra, Flare, Thermo, Low

Note: Better understanding of the use of a Smartgun/Smartlink/Imagelink in the other thread in which I asked about Shooting Around Corners in SR 2070, I want the characters equipment to be in sync, especially with his beloved semi auto pistol.

Thanks for taking a look at the list, I wouldn't be surprised if I misunderstood some of equipment modification stuff making some of this impossible, which would be a shame, or if the equipment is so custom that the estimated "Grocery" list total of 9479 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (sold/traded equipment not factored in) is not enough for its street value but I would hope my good friend the Elf Fixer who got Eagle Eye into the shadows in the first place would be able to help out, though it would still take some time to put the whole list together.

Other items not on the list but desired in the future would be:
- a better commlink with better programs for helping with personal security and intel acquisition in the field (something called an Agent, right?) with Satellite Link, White Noise Generator, and Micro-Transciever mod as well.
- B&E equipment
- Improved Custom Camo Suit Armor
- Improved Survival Kit
- Improvised Explosives: High Octane Fuel + Metal Gas Can + Clip of Ex-Ex + Ball Bearings/Caltrops/Roofing Nails + Packing Styrofoam + Contact Cement + Remote Detonator Cap + Birthday Present Bow + Birthday Box full of Flash-Bang Grenades that "accidentally" was stuck to the Metal Gas Can ... other uses would be to shut off the power to a building and fire bombing but the original idea was born of being anti-personel/runner.
- Improved Custom Suzuki Motorbike: Anti Chase Weapon Mount (Hehe, Spy Chaser/Catcher, old arcade game...), Sensor/Anti-Sensor Package, Additional Storage, Off Road Mods
- Very Strong Area Jammer
- Diving Gear
- Modified Custom Off Road Van to accommodate sleeping quarters, gear storage, suzuki bike storage, and ...
- Modified Custom Stealth Submersible Jet-ski
- Modified Custom Stealth Long Distance HALO Hang Glider/Parachute
- Modified Transport Air Craft to transport the above
- Tons of fake SINs and Licenses
- Tons of safe houses
- A more healthy living standard (Low Lifestyle and below sucks! Hehe...)

Hope you've enjoyed my silly list, if you look you can see the progression of where I had hoped the character could go in the "grocery" list. Its stuff I think a SR 2070 Gunslinger trying to upgrade to Respected Hitman and then High Profile Assassin status would try for. Obviously none of this will happen in this particular gaming group now, hehe, still fun to imagine though.

[CanadianWolverin...]

It is hard to referee this situation, but once the second sniper acted the ENTIRE PARTY should have made a surprise test against the second sniper with a +3 bonus since they already discovered the other sniper (the sniper however gets a +6 to his roll). Somebody could have shouted a warning or you could have made another perception check, or, gone before the sniper. Also, your full defense lasts until your next initiative pass, while you can't use full defense when surprised, you had declared it already to dodge other attacks, so your Full Defense should have counted. Even if it had not, the GM still has to roll dice for the shot against your Reaction, there are no autohits (the attacker could miss, botch, or blow your head clean off). All of this is probably a moot point, as it sounds like the GM was gunning for you. Ninja snipers are a poor way to challenge players, and had he TPK'd the entire party with them, I'm sure nobody would have had fun. GM's have access to nuclear weapons, dragons, and ewoks, it is trivial for a GM to kill a player, he can have a Bust-A-Move crawl out of your toilet tank at 3AM and stick an icepick in your ear...boy, wasn't that fun, my oh my. Killing players isn't a mark of a good GM, challenging players with opponents that tax their skills is (leave the killing of players up to themselves, they are pretty good at it). It is unfortunate that you have found such a disagreeable group to game with, they may improve once they have accepted you into the tribe, but I doubt it, good groups are hard to find. I wish you luck.

Lojack

Thanks Lojack, I know it is tough to break into pre-existing tribes. Hoo boy, its just natural for humans to cliche, can't be helped, so I am not bent out of shape about it, just disappoited. Thanks again for the insight into the Surprise Test, it is very much appreciated.

Heh, funny thing is, the Snipers weren't even all that Ninja either, their Ruger 100 and Camo Suits were unmodified, so my character must have dodged through a patch of deck lighting or something so they didn't have problems with Low Light, I don't think the guards were anything other than human, adept or cybered, oddly enough. The Troll has Thermo, right? I wonder why he didn't spot the Sniper? Oh well, probably just unfamiliarity with SR 2070 on the GM's part. *shrug*

[CanadianWolverin...]

I'm really curious what might be thought about my "grocery" list so I am trying to undead this thread: Did I get the prices wrong? Are some of the items not even possible? If I could only keep a few items for the same total price, which would you advise? Did I miss any glaring holes in my character's tools of the trade?

Please help better my newbie understanding of how equipment works. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[AWOL]

Thanks for the replies, I do appreciate the advice.

So, then I take it I was reading this incorrectly on page 80:



It is that silly word "earn", why not just say "may not gain"... hmm, that word doesn't quite work then either, how about, well, how you guys worded it. From what I gather then from what you say that means the only way to get 35 BP from Qualities is to take no positive Qualities, right? Why would anyone do that? *shrug*

Hmm, so if I kept the positives the best I get is +15 BP, right? So, that is a 20 BP difference I need to shave, hoo boy. Want to keep the Contact ... Gear ... Hmm, any of the attributes I might be able to knock the 20 out there and still stay in concept? I was kinda trying to max those silly things out for the most part but if there is something there, like maybe the body or strength down a point each? Or lower Edge and Body by one? I wonder what Negative Qualities I could drop and still stay in the backstory... hmm...

Also, did anyone else get the missing/duplicate pages thing?

And any advice on playing Shadowrun? I gathered up all my D6 from my board games for starters, I think I counted around 40 dice, hope that is enough. I have just a little experience with PnP games and that is from this same group playing D&D , which incidentally I end up being a paranoid (see: cowardly) character in that, I get in a bit of trouble for not seeing fights through to the bitter end if things look bad.

Various favorite action movies, usually involving assasins it seems, are my inspiration for this character, when I saw the Gunslinger Adept that is what it reminded me of. I really want those positive Qualities to do two things, dual wield pistols from a quick draw and almost bend the bullets, like Wanted for lack of a better example. Slow motion reaction time type thing should be fun too ... mmm, gun-fu... So if there was one exceptional attribute I could have that I want it would be Reaction base 7, rather than a higher Agility of base 8, I am guessing. Expensive though, huh? I really worked on the backstory, I hope it was enjoyable in explaining how someone could be good gun-fu assasin / hitman thingy but not too impressive at anything else thanks to that Criminal SiN growing up. Friggin corps...

Edit: Oh, and where might I read about what happened to where I live in the SR4 future in any detail. Seems some cities are covered in a lot of detail, Seatle comes to mind, but I am curious what is going on around where I live now. If you do a shadowrun somewhere, do you for the most part just make stuff up on the fly or do you have some basis in our reality and the one of SR4? If I knew more about the Salishe-Shide country and its relationship with the various corps, I think I might actually rather live there than have it fly under the red maple leaf (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Do you think the various tribes / first nations would be better off and not live in such third world conditions as much any more or would it just be more of the same? Do the Corps then still try to basicly steal from a tribes home territory like has happened in the past and still goes on today though more under the radar? Would fresh drinking water and sub-tropical forests and the surrounding oceans be more or less protected? Whatever happened to the Queen Charlotte Islands - would the Haida really live under Salish-Shide authority? What kind of government do they run? Did we finally get proportional representation?

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Well what you could do is bring your reaction down 2 points granted you won't be as good at character creation, but once you get thirty karma bring your magic up to six, and then get attribute boost reaction up to four times(p187 sr4), then you will be rolling your magic 5 + attribute boost reaction rating for your boost to reaction.

[Stahlseele]

I'm really curious what might be thought about my "grocery" list so I am trying to undead this thread: Did I get the prices wrong? Are some of the items not even possible? If I could only keep a few items for the same total price, which would you advise? Did I miss any glaring holes in my character's tools of the trade?

Please help better my newbie understanding of how equipment works. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Did you edit that list into the OP?
If so, it's probably better to mention that.
I am generally too lazy to go back to the first page of a thread i have written something in on a later page ^^#

[CanadianWolverin...]

Thanks a ton (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

So, the "grocery" list, for your viewing pleasure. Eagle Eye called up his Elf Fixer (Loyalty 4 Connection 4) and ordered these fine products after he had a Standard Doc Wagon Contract ordered:

For the Commlink:
- Datasoft 6
- Mapsoft 6
For the Ruger 100 he looted he wanted to trade it in and get a Ruger 100 with:
- 5 reg ammo
- Silencer
- Smart Gun/Smartlink: Improved Camera: Vision 3, Flare, Thermo, Low, Mag
- Carry Case, Sling
He had looted the Camo Suit off the headless sniper and wanted to sew some stuff onto it and fill the pockets:
- Tag Eraser (Just in case any of his fellow runners decided to tag his person or suzuki motorcycle)
- Holo Projector (Duke Nukem 3D, hehe...)
- Survival Kit (Heh, the character was going to leave town, this team rolls like a bunch of Orc Gangers!)
- Biomonitor (His health is a bit more of a concern now, dodging isn't enough - can't spend the nuyen if you are dead)
- Sensor Package: Helmet/Armor:
-- Radio Signal Scanner 6 (No point in tag erasing if I am unaware of the tags)
-- MAD Scanner 3
-- Cyberware Scanner 6
-- Atmosphere Sensor 3
-- Geiger Counter
Additional Armor concerns given the whole Sniper incident:
- Helmet (Motorcross like, to function as a anti-face recognition mask as well, with this addition)
-- Gas Mask
- Ballistic Shield
- Long Duster "Cowboy" Jacket to replace the now pawned/traded/sold Lined Coat conceal modifier
Trade/Sell the Contact Lenses for an improved set of sensor, even if some of it ends up on some of the helmet's protective face shield:
- Improved Contact Lenses:
-- Smart & Image Link, Vision 3, Ultra, Mag, Flare, Thermo
Trade/Sell the Earbuds same reasons as above:
- Improved Earbuds:
-- Audio Enhance 3
-- Spatial
-- Select Sound Filter 3
Trade/Sell the Colt Manchester Smartguns, better understanding of the limits of dual pistols has the character going single pistol for his Gunslinging needs but wants improvements:
- Improved Colt Man: Smartgun/Smartlink Camera Improved:
-- Vision 3, Vision Mag, Ultra, Flare, Thermo, Low

Note: Better understanding of the use of a Smartgun/Smartlink/Imagelink in the other thread in which I asked about Shooting Around Corners in SR 2070, I want the characters equipment to be in sync, especially with his beloved semi auto pistol.

Thanks for taking a look at the list, I wouldn't be surprised if I misunderstood some of equipment modification stuff making some of this impossible, which would be a shame, or if the equipment is so custom that the estimated "Grocery" list total of 9479 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (sold/traded equipment not factored in) is not enough for its street value but I would hope my good friend the Elf Fixer who got Eagle Eye into the shadows in the first place would be able to help out, though it would still take some time to put the whole list together.

Other items not on the list but desired in the future would be:
- a better commlink with better programs for helping with personal security and intel acquisition in the field (something called an Agent, right?) with Satellite Link, White Noise Generator, and Micro-Transciever mod as well.
- B&E equipment
- Improved Custom Camo Suit Armor
- Improved Survival Kit
- Improvised Explosives: High Octane Fuel + Metal Gas Can + Clip of Ex-Ex + Ball Bearings/Caltrops/Roofing Nails + Packing Styrofoam + Contact Cement + Remote Detonator Cap + Birthday Present Bow + Birthday Box full of Flash-Bang Grenades that "accidentally" was stuck to the Metal Gas Can ... other uses would be to shut off the power to a building and fire bombing but the original idea was born of being anti-personel/runner.
- Improved Custom Suzuki Motorbike: Anti Chase Weapon Mount (Hehe, Spy Chaser/Catcher, old arcade game...), Sensor/Anti-Sensor Package, Additional Storage, Off Road Mods
- Very Strong Area Jammer
- Diving Gear
- Modified Custom Off Road Van to accommodate sleeping quarters, gear storage, suzuki bike storage, and ...
- Modified Custom Stealth Submersible Jet-ski
- Modified Custom Stealth Long Distance HALO Hang Glider/Parachute
- Modified Transport Air Craft to transport the above
- Tons of fake SINs and Licenses
- Tons of safe houses
- A more healthy living standard (Low Lifestyle and below sucks! Hehe...)

Hope you've enjoyed my silly list, if you look you can see the progression of where I had hoped the character could go in the "grocery" list. Its stuff I think a SR 2070 Gunslinger trying to upgrade to Respected Hitman and then High Profile Assassin status would try for. Obviously none of this will happen in this particular gaming group now, hehe, still fun to imagine though.

Will this work Stahseele? I'll see if my already novel long OP will take it too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Stahlseele]

looks good so far

[CanadianWolverin...]

looks good so far

Are you sure? I was looking again at Glasses Vs Goggles and realized something... If Glasses supposedly (I say this because I either don't have a listing or have over looked the listing of capacity in my SR4 book) have 4 capacity and Goggles have 6, wouldn't it follow that Contacts only have 2? In which case I better get some Goggles to go with the helmet instead...

And how much capacity does the rest of my stuff have? Especially, is there enough room in my Helmet/Armor for the Sensor Package? And will I be able to get all those vision mods into the capacity of the Smartgun System camera or do I need to buy a second external smartgun system to put one above and below on the Colt Manchester? Maybe even a external too for 3 Smartgun cameras? Is the capacity stuff from a different book or something online?

Oh, and if I have to sync my vision mods between eyes and pistol, do I need to have Low Light in the Goggles? This is also because of the same thread: seems there is a difference between opitical and digital, so I am guessing the Elf eyes Low Light is optical but the Smartgun System camera is digital and that would have them out of sync?

And does a Camouflage Suit allow more patterns than just Camo? Like with the right program it might change colors to look like a business suit or whatever else is needed in a social setting? Is the camo look still "street" enough to blend in with the crowd? Could I copy a certain gang or corp security look with Camo Suit from a (blended? aka more than one camera angle) 3D image of some sort?

Also, how do I better understand the prices? Do I get a discount for trading in my previous gear or am I better off keeping my starting gear as a back up? What modifiers to price do you think would apply to the high quality sight/sound/sensor equipment that the character would be trying to acquire would apply?

Do I need a better commlink for the sensory stuff to actually work?

[Stahlseele]

*points behind you*
Look there! A distraction!
*hides behind streetlamp*
No Trolls here, just us streetlamps . .
Sorry, but i ain't good at logistics like that, i get confused with most of the stuff you have questions about myself i am afraid <.< . .

[CanadianWolverin...]

*points behind you*
Look there! A distraction!
*hides behind streetlamp*
No Trolls here, just us streetlamps . .
Sorry, but i ain't good at logistics like that, i get confused with most of the stuff you have questions about myself i am afraid <.< . .

Ah, no worries, I am mostly far too curious for my own good anyways. And at this point, it is purely academic until such time as I am a PC again or get my first crack at being a GM. Put in character terms, I am trying to do the leg work aka scouting before I do the run of a game again.

Hopefully I'll be able to GM this time, so I am trying to soak up everything I can from the forums, seems like one of the best sources for discourse on the subject of Shadowrun. Hehe, that and dreaming about what a SR computer game would consist of... Oh, speaking of which, time to go look down that link in a post earlier and dream of owning my own computer again...

[Stahlseele]

Yeah, Dumpshock is a veritable goldmine, if you learn to make out the difference between gold and something else that's golden ^^