IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Cyberware opinions
Cyberware opinions
You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Total Votes: 82
Guests cannot vote 
Larme
post Jun 23 2009, 06:57 PM
Post #1


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,653
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 15,430



The idea for this poll was started by another thread which got me thinking. Some people prefer un-cybered builds. Why is that? Is it due to an RL dislike of the concept of cyberware? Or is it some other kind of preference? This poll is trying to get at the effect peoples' RL preferences for cyberware have on their character building preferences. Do people who wouldn't install cyber IRL tend to play uncybered characters, and vice versa? My hypothesis is that there will be a significant number of people who would install none and never use it in characters, but we'll soon see. The last question is a bit wacky because of the system's anonymous polling. If we had a system where each respondent was separated out, I could just compare results intra-respondent to find the percentage that picked option 1 both times, for instance. But instead, I have to use a third meta-question. Obviously, it's not foolproof, because people could select an answer on the third that doesn't correspond with the first two. But hopefully people will be accurate enough that I can learn some kernel of information about my hypothesis (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muspellsheimr
post Jun 23 2009, 07:11 PM
Post #2


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,336
Joined: 24-February 08
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Member No.: 15,706



I answered as accurately as I could with the given options, however, you failed to provide any distinction between augmentation types (I assume by 'cyber', you meant 'augmentation').

I, personally, would never install cybernetic augmentations, & would consider bioaugmentations, but would likely not use them. I have no objection whatsoever, however, to genetic augmentation.

My characters never use cybernetic modifications, but (depending on the character) may have bioaugmentation, genetics, or nanotech.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
crizh
post Jun 23 2009, 07:15 PM
Post #3


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,666
Joined: 29-February 08
From: Scotland
Member No.: 15,722



If I'm not building a combat character I tend install the sort of Cyber I would fit myself.

The Nanite Arm I've put on my latest TM is pretty awesome. It's not much use IC but IRL I'd love to have the sort of kit she has. O-Cells, Universal Nantidotes, Anti-Rad, Oxy-rush and Nanite Hunters would give you a distinctly improved quality of life.

I would probably get some Geneware as well, Immunity to various Nerve Agents probably.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mäx
post Jun 23 2009, 07:24 PM
Post #4


Prime Runner
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,803
Joined: 3-February 08
From: Finland
Member No.: 15,628



If i was living in the six world, i would get cyber-eyes in a heart-beat and probaply few other pieces as well.
My characters almost always has atleast some augmentations.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Chibu
post Jun 23 2009, 07:27 PM
Post #5


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 494
Joined: 19-February 05
From: Amazonia
Member No.: 7,102



I would get some cyberware installed in a heartbeat. Though, I wouldn't, say, cut off my arms to get metal ones. So, I suppose for me peraonally, I would get cyber modifications or additions, but not replacements (unless i lost a leg in a car accident or something). But I would get things like a datajack (assuming it actually worked) right now if i could. I'm don't think that I would get my eyes cut out and replaced, though possibly I would get them augmented (assuming such is not visible).

My characters rarely have cyberware. Part of this reason is that many of them are magically active. However, the other part is actually based on my personal beliefs about cyberware etc. I've stated before to members of my group that I can't really comprehend the idea of people who would willingly get invasive surgery dozens of times, spending months upon months in the hospital, just to have X. As such, I do not think that I can (nor do I think that other people do) realistically portray a character who would do such. That's not to say that I haven't played a sammy with < .01 essence, but that I try to have good reasons for them to be like that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mirilion
post Jun 23 2009, 07:30 PM
Post #6


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 202
Joined: 11-June 09
Member No.: 17,271



I view the human body as very flawed and vulnerable. The fact that we, as thinking, feeling beings, can be damaged permanently so easily is just plain wrong.
That and more. We are basically walking sacks of water. It's a bit depressing the more you think about it.
Time goes by so fast and we die after a few decades, most of them not very enjoyable physically. Not to mention spending about half of our precious time maintaining ourselves.
If I had the chance, I would dump the meat. Hopefully some kind of full cyberization, but with a brain replacement as well.
A ghost-in-the-machine type of thing will be fine too, just too weird to imagine right now.

In a game, though, I just do what seems fun at the time.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Larme
post Jun 23 2009, 08:06 PM
Post #7


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,653
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 15,430



QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Jun 23 2009, 03:11 PM) *
I answered as accurately as I could with the given options, however, you failed to provide any distinction between augmentation types (I assume by 'cyber', you meant 'augmentation').

I, personally, would never install cybernetic augmentations, & would consider bioaugmentations, but would likely not use them. I have no objection whatsoever, however, to genetic augmentation.

My characters never use cybernetic modifications, but (depending on the character) may have bioaugmentation, genetics, or nanotech.


I was mostly asking about cyberware. Replacing flesh with metal is at the very core of cyberpunk. But as I noted in another thread, Shadowrun isn't 100% Cyberpunk, it's part D&D and part wire fu thanks to the existence of Adepts and Mages. My theory is that Shadowrun attracts people who aren't that into cyberpunk and wouldn't use cyberware themselves, and therefore would not be as likely to use it on their characters either. Bioware is different, that's replacing flesh with better flesh. Not quite as much within the cyberpunk genre. That doesn't mean cyberpunk doesn't use biotech, genetics, or nanotech, they're just less central to the genre.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
knasser
post Jun 23 2009, 08:14 PM
Post #8


Shadow Cartographer
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,737
Joined: 2-June 06
From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West)
Member No.: 8,636



Bone Lacing. It doesn't interfere with anything that is essentially you. It just adds a little something to reinforce your skeleton. I'd love bone lacing.

Also a cyberskull. It's a pretty radical procedure to get done, but just think how much safer you'd be from head trauma.

I kind of like the idea of Cerebral Boosters also as according to the fluff they are just unformatted grey matter that still needs to be "trained". Essentially it doesn't change you exactly, just gives you room to grow.

K.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stahlseele
post Jun 23 2009, 08:21 PM
Post #9


The ShadowComedian
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 14,538
Joined: 3-October 07
From: Hamburg, AGS
Member No.: 13,525



Yes
Moderate
Allmost allways

I would so get some nice toys, but i would keep my options open for further improvement when new things hit the market.
I love to tinker. I would probably END UP as 0,001 Essence at some point or other, but i would start out moderately to get used to being god.
Probably Flare Compensation for the eyes, selective hearing and ability to switch off sense of smell&taste. Built in Juke-Box, or Game-Machine.
Or a built in harddisk. Being TechSupport a DNI would be most welcome. Maybe some kind of Cyber-Armor, Probably with Chameleon-Effect.
Having nice toys is nice and all, but you have to keep the body housing them in working kondition.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Screaming Eagle
post Jun 23 2009, 08:43 PM
Post #10


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 304
Joined: 23-April 09
From: Canada eh?
Member No.: 17,109



I cannot see myself getting any unnessasry cyber-mods, doubly so when the idea of "Essence" stat from Shadowrun comes up. The whole "your soul doesn't recognise you body" thing is creepy as hell. Injury replacement cyberlimb: ok. Walking into a cyberdoc, slaping my arms on the table and saying "These ain't cutting it Doc, I need to be able to crush steel girders. Upgrade to the new me. While you at it Doc I've been thinking...." Ew.

This however does not in anyway stop me from placing it on my PC's, they have different values, history and perspective then I do and I try to make such things line up. I have not to date made the essence .00001 dude... mostly because I couldn't be bothered with all the math and cross checking (I am not 110% on the warez' rules and when you start the Slivers of a Essence Surrounded by Steel game you should be). I think my current all time low was 1.(something or other small) essence on a 3rd Ed. rigger.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
paws2sky
post Jun 23 2009, 08:53 PM
Post #11


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,162
Joined: 16-November 07
Member No.: 14,229



I'd get some quality of life implants, but keep it relatively low. Maybe the equivalent of 1 to 2 essence worth, total. I'm not really sure if I'd be more or less inclined to get bioware than cyberware - part of me would like the idea of bioware being less invasive, but part of me is squeamish about modifying organs or implanting extra meat.

My characters get implants when its appropriate to concept. Magicians get no or minimal implants. Implant intensive characters usually don't give up more than 4 Essence ebcause I like to leave room for future upgrades.

One thing that really helped sell me on SR4 was the inclusion of things like trode nets and other non-invasive technology that duplicate many of the effects of implants. Combat drugs, trodes, tricked out goggles, and so on. All very handy and very easy to ditch in case you need to lay low.

-paws
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kerenshara
post Jun 23 2009, 08:56 PM
Post #12


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,894
Joined: 11-May 09
Member No.: 17,166



QUOTE (Larme @ Jun 23 2009, 04:06 PM) *
I was mostly asking about cyberware. Replacing flesh with metal is at the very core of cyberpunk. But as I noted in another thread, Shadowrun isn't 100% Cyberpunk, it's part D&D and part wire fu thanks to the existence of Adepts and Mages. My theory is that Shadowrun attracts people who aren't that into cyberpunk and wouldn't use cyberware themselves, and therefore would not be as likely to use it on their characters either. Bioware is different, that's replacing flesh with better flesh. Not quite as much within the cyberpunk genre. That doesn't mean cyberpunk doesn't use biotech, genetics, or nanotech, they're just less central to the genre.

Emphasis mine.

That's an extremely personal and subjective opinion. I have the opposite view for myself, that cyberpunk is all about enhancement of the (meta)human body by any means available.

If you want proof that bioware isn't just "better flesh", see the essence cost. Back in 2nd ed, when the first printing of ShadowTech came out, bioware DIDN'T affect your ESSence (which the DEVs have EXPLICITLY stated represents holistic integrity physically as well as spiritually); It created a separate "body index" that measured how much the upgrades stressed the natural underlying systems. Your body could only take so much "improvement". If that had stayed the case, I would say your definition was closer to the truth. But even the genetic tweaking has an ESSence cost now, so I would say it's not just "better flesh" but more like self-repairing carbon-based protein-encoded cyberware. But that's a matter of opinion. The problem is that it's not expressley stated (as of when I am writing this) in the OP. So your results are going to be skewed by people's perceptions of what you meant.

For my own self, speaking as somebody who already has a form of "cyberware" implanted in their body, I've already lost my first notional point of ESSence. I used to think it would be a hard decision, but after crossing the threshold, it's no longer an issue. I can think of LOTS of bioware I would jump at in a heartbeat. But if you're asking about "hard" cyberware, I would get at least a few items. Firstly, a built-in Comlink w/ SimModule, and if it was more Johny Mnemonic style than "giant silver zit", a data jack (ok, so I'm vain). Maybe a Nano-Hive for some of the related goodies. A Nano-Biomonitor. No I would NOT go lopping off limbs.

(*EDIT* Add: Sleep regulator, Encephalon, Math SPU, Attention Co-Processor and Orientation System. Maybe the anti-nausea mod, too. I can see that being useful.)

As to my characters, it depends on focus. Kerenshara's got a pile of bioware, a little cyberware, and some gene ware. She's all about subtle, though, so things like external modifications, even a datajack, are off the table.

Other characters have taken limbs or partial limbs because there are significant advantages to doing so. But like many denizens of the 6th World, bioware is going to be my first choice for everything. If I'm going for pure combat power, the Move-By-Wire system is such an obvious choice it's painful. Would I ever do such a thing to myself in real life if given any alternatvie? Not a chance. But then again, I don't work out and train to level 6 proficiency in any physical skill, either. But I can see making that choice easily if it was my primary focus in life. But even then, I would load up on the bioware because it is self-repairing, lower stress and easier on essence, plus it gives a more natural feel to the world. One of the BIG problems mentioned in earlier editions with regard to Wired Reflexes was that if you left them turned on, you were a SERIOUSLY twitchy drekker, and it tended to warp your world view. Bioware equivalents tend to have less of that kind of impact because the effect is essentially just supercharging the existing systems. MBW achieves the results by functionally bypassing the normal physical response loops entirely (just like a fly-by-wire flight control system), allowing the user to focus on desired effect and letting the expert system handle the details. At the top level, it's still a bit twitchy, but that's a big part of the ESSence cost IMHO.

But even my Awakened characters often take a little cyberware and bioware, because it fits my view of being successful and effective in the 6th World. In earlier editions of the game, it was NORMAL for mages to lose that first point of ESSence to some basic 'ware. A Native American Shaman wouldn't probably (if I was playing them, anyhow), but any kind of Logic based spellcaster, especially a Chaos Magician (or to a lesser extent, a Hermetic), would find the benefits of a certain 'ware worth the limitations and costs.

One thing I WOULD say, without question, is that I would personally hold out for the absolute HIGHEST grade of 'ware I could get, period.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kerenshara
post Jun 23 2009, 09:02 PM
Post #13


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,894
Joined: 11-May 09
Member No.: 17,166



QUOTE (knasser @ Jun 23 2009, 04:14 PM) *
Bone Lacing. It doesn't interfere with anything that is essentially you. It just adds a little something to reinforce your skeleton. I'd love bone lacing.

Yeah, so would I, but it's illegal as DREK. If it wasn't illegal to physically walk around after the surgery, I'd go with the Ceramic version, personally.

QUOTE
Also a cyberskull. It's a pretty radical procedure to get done, but just think how much safer you'd be from head trauma.

Your Bone Lacing already took care of a lot of that, and consider the injury bad enough to dent that skull... the old joke about the "fender and body shop" isn't quite so funny any more after that. *grin* Would you really consider it worth the additional expense, invasiveness and limitations? (That was not rhetorical, it's meant to be a serious question.)

QUOTE
I kind of like the idea of Cerebral Boosters also as according to the fluff they are just unformatted grey matter that still needs to be "trained". Essentially it doesn't change you exactly, just gives you room to grow.

That's sort of what I alluded to in my above post about synaptic accelerators: it's an improvement, an evolution as opposed to a upgrade or a replacement. It would probably "feel" more natural, and when it would come to my own body IRL, all those "fluff" things would be at the TOP of my mind. But increasing my raw processing potential? Oh, yeah.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stahlseele
post Jun 23 2009, 09:04 PM
Post #14


The ShadowComedian
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 14,538
Joined: 3-October 07
From: Hamburg, AGS
Member No.: 13,525



Might be the fact that i am on painkillers right now, but lopping off my one leg does not sound too bad at the moment <.<
And just to make it even, lop of the other one too . . install skates, get a whip, attack whip to cars driving by and do some surfing.
Or modify the Feet to be able to become another Set of Hands. Or the ability to bend the knees in the other direction and fixating them in a sitting position.
But as i stated above, i am more into utiliware. Things that help me eat stuff i don't like but know to be good for me.
Things that allow me to ignore things that i find repulsive about other people(for example irritating voices and dumb comments or ridiculous body odour).
Things that let me go out into the Sun without needing Strength 15 Sun lotion and Shades dark enough to more or less make other people blind behind them.
Things that make life EASIER for me, without really taking something away from me. All those things are Add-Ins, not replacements after all.
But i don't WANT it to feel natural. I wanna be able to tell exactly where my body ends, and a toy i considered nifty some time starts. So i can have it removed if needed be.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Myrddin
post Jun 23 2009, 09:23 PM
Post #15


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 26-October 07
Member No.: 13,908



Actually for me, MY first question would be about the magic. If in another couple of years the magic does come back in real life then it would depend, like for my characters, IF I had magic (or resonance) or not. If I was just normal then perhaps. If I goblinized and lost mental acuity I would want to get that back.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TBRMInsanity
post Jun 23 2009, 09:53 PM
Post #16


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,002
Joined: 22-April 06
From: Canada
Member No.: 8,494



Cyberware is the great equalizer. While magic is powerful and you can do some REALLY freaky stuff with magic, ANYONE can get cyber. It also doesn't hurt that most characters I play are Riggers and while it isn't a necessity (not like back in SR3 and prior) it is highly recommended to get cyber. Being a religious man and my view that your essence is your soul (thus your destroying your soul with every piece of cyberware you install) I tend to get ancy when I install more then 4 points of cyberware in a character. I think personally I would feel the same way. I would love the damaged nerves in my leg to be replaced with something that worked (old army injury), and I wouldn't think twice about getting a cyber limb if one of mine was damaged beyond repair, but I wouldn't turn myself into a walking cyborg.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Larme
post Jun 23 2009, 09:53 PM
Post #17


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,653
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 15,430



Well, so far a number of people would not get any cyberware at all, but not one person refuses to make a cybered character. So unless a bunch more people chime in to break the trend, I guess my hypothesis is wrong (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Now, I suppose I could have asked the wrong questions. Asking how often people make cybered characters doesn't speak to how much cyber they use or what they use it for. Still, I'm reasonably satisfied that non-cyber characters aren't pure anti-cyber prejudice -- I can infer that from the fact that nobody so far refuses to make cybered characters, whether they would get it themselves or not.

Perhaps the next poll should attack my second hypothesis -- that it's archetypes that drive people to make no-cyber characters. Even though there are no classes in SR, the #1 reason I hear when people make a horrible, weak, all-meat physad, is that physads aren't supposed to have cyber. So maybe that theory could explain lack of cyber more accurately than RL opinions about cyberware.

As for me, my only worry is that any cyber they do invent within my lifetime will be too crappy or too expensive to be bothered with. And an electronic brain is highly unlikely -- hell, a fully digital brain wouldn't even be you. They could copy your entire neural net (if they had the computing power of like a jillion supercomputers, which they might have within my lifetime) into an electronic interface, but there would be no transfer. It would just be a copy. A copy's not much better than nothing, it's like having a clone. It's not you, it just looks and acts like you. The ideal interface would preserve the brain in its living state, but maybe flood it with nanites or symbiotic microbes, or rewrite its DNA with retroviruses in order to keep it continuously regenerating instead of degrading like they tend to do over time. Cancer cells are literally immune to age, so it is theoretically possible to alter living tissue so that it has no limited lifespan.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stahlseele
post Jun 23 2009, 09:58 PM
Post #18


The ShadowComedian
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 14,538
Joined: 3-October 07
From: Hamburg, AGS
Member No.: 13,525



QUOTE
but I wouldn't turn myself into a walking cyborg.

You have to see the BIGGER Picture . . FLOATING CYBORGS!


I am mostly the Combat monkey, so it's mostly combat related stuff that goes in.
I am forbidden form using up more than 50% of the Essence of any Character i make in Generation.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Heath Robinson
post Jun 24 2009, 09:33 AM
Post #19


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,263
Joined: 4-March 08
From: Blighty
Member No.: 15,736



I'm a transhumanist. A transhumanist with myopia.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Doc Chaos
post Jun 24 2009, 10:32 AM
Post #20


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 219
Joined: 28-April 09
From: Munich/Free State of Bavaria/Allied German States
Member No.: 17,119



Better to be full of steel, than full of lead (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Bring the screwdrivers, doc!!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tarbrush
post Jun 24 2009, 01:02 PM
Post #21


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 129
Joined: 16-November 06
Member No.: 9,883



Given that many of my frustrations in life stem from being shortsighted, overweight and having a bad back, I would be on it like boring on Gerry Ford. Cybereyes, slimworm and enhanced articulation for sure. Probably also some muscle treatment of some form.

I think I'd share most of my character's reluctance for visible 'ware though.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wesley Street
post Jun 24 2009, 01:05 PM
Post #22


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,851
Joined: 15-February 08
From: Indianapolis
Member No.: 15,686



I'm already awesome. Adding cyberware would make me too awesome.

Some things just shouldn't be.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElFenrir
post Jun 24 2009, 02:59 PM
Post #23


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,168
Joined: 15-April 05
From: Helsinki, Finland
Member No.: 7,337



Personally, I would get a few particular implants: Eyes and Ears most likely, unless I could get surgery to repair them completely. I have rather bad eyesight(a little too much for the laser surgery to easily handle), and my hearing isn't the best, either. I'm legally blind without corrective lenses, but i don't need any hearing aids luckily. While I can't be considered disabled, I would love to have these taken care of. I'd likely shoot for more nano-eye surgery before getting them replaced, though. I'd get the metal eyes as a last resort. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I'd get Enhanced Articulation to help my joint pain most definitely.

Sleep Regulator would be another purchase. I hate getting tired in the middle of parties.

Extended Volume. This would be fun. The stuff that lets you eat grass would be a nice party trick.

Basically, I'd get a few minor things here and there, but nothing like Bone Lacing, Muscle Augmentation, or anything like that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Draco18s
post Jun 24 2009, 03:19 PM
Post #24


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,289
Joined: 2-October 08
Member No.: 16,392



First off, I'd wait until it was safe and proven. Likely "beta grade" ware or better publicly available.
Second, I'd probably do the weird shit--like balance tail.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Larme
post Jun 24 2009, 03:22 PM
Post #25


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,653
Joined: 22-January 08
Member No.: 15,430



QUOTE (tarbrush @ Jun 24 2009, 09:02 AM) *
Given that many of my frustrations in life stem from being shortsighted, overweight and having a bad back, I would be on it like boring on Gerry Ford. Cybereyes, slimworm and enhanced articulation for sure. Probably also some muscle treatment of some form.

I think I'd share most of my character's reluctance for visible 'ware though.


Really? You'd get the creepy crawly biosymbiote worm instead of the internally-regulating dietware? For me, it would be suprathyroid and synthacardium all the way, if we're just talking about bioware (especially because IRL, having a souped up thyroid destroys your heart, which is why thyroid supplements are no longer used for weight loss). That's assuming, of course, that full 'borg is too impractical. Which I suspect it will be for quite some time...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st May 2024 - 08:02 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.