Bug Spirit Inhabitation and Wimps Options

[Megu]

A question.

A bug spirit must have a living metahuman body to inhabit, correct? Would a fast-growth clone body suffice, as it's living tissue, or does the undeveloped brain cause problems?

It seems to me that if this works, it could remove a lot of the ethical issues surrounding Inhabitation, particularly in the case of less hostile spirits, such as Mantids.

Any thoughts?

[The Jake]

A question.

A bug spirit must have a living metahuman body to inhabit, correct? Would a fast-growth clone body suffice, as it's living tissue, or does the undeveloped brain cause problems?

It seems to me that if this works, it could remove a lot of the ethical issues surrounding Inhabitation, particularly in the case of less hostile spirits, such as Mantids.

Any thoughts?

PCs aren't supposed to be Insect Shamans and that's final!

*ducks and runs for cover*

- J.

[Megu]

Who said anything about shamans? Was actually thinking free/independent spirits.

But moreover, I was really going to use this as an NPC. Toys with a PC who's a Chicago survivor, screws with her head a bit. They uncover a corp bughunt program, maybe, that has Mantids assembling more of their kind from wimps and being sent out after the other bugs. Then they decide what to do about it, if anything.

Does the fundamental premise work, though?

[Jaid]

technically, you can have them inhabit a rock if you feel like it.

wimps are imo sufficiently (meta)human to qualify for inhabitation. of course, they wouldn't be as awesome as real people used for a vessel (that is, a real person will have some skills of their own, and memories, whereas a wimp will only have the skills and memories of the spirit)

[The Jake]

Is wimp Shadowrun jargon for clone? I haven't seen that before?

In my campaign I had an Insect Shaman who was a convicted paedophile using children for his merges (Children are great for getting into places and not being quizzed too much).

You can imagine the looks on my players faces when they realised this. This went double when they were "asked" to kidnap a teenager whom he had targeted for turning into a Nymph - and eventually a Queen...

- J.

[KCKitsune]

Is wimp Shadowrun jargon for clone? I haven't seen that before?

In my campaign I had an Insect Shaman who was a convicted paedophile using children for his merges (Children are great for getting into places and not being quizzed too much).

You can imagine the looks on my players faces when they realised this. This went double when they were "asked" to kidnap a teenager whom he had targeted for turning into a Nymph - and eventually a Queen...

- J.

"Wimps" are full body clones... It's on page 7 of the Augmentation preview that can be found Here

[Screaming Eagle]

As sited in the section and roughly paraphased by myself, insect spirits can inhabit any living thing - I tend to restrict it it animal life, I'm not sure if the rules do. It is also mentioned in there descriptions that they very much prefer sapient and Meta-human hosts for reasons unknown and probably horrifing.
Can they inhabit Clones?
Short version: yes they can (or rather I can see no reason why not)
Longer versions: Yes, but they would much rather devour a resisting soul because they are tastier and they then have a very real chance to take the hosts memories and life to better infest the world for their eventual (and no doubt evil) scheme.

That said the Shaman or Queen is in charge and if the plan calls for the use of clones, clones is what we shall be using.

[Screaming Eagle]

Sorry, missed the Mantid spirit/ ethical thing:
It's less "shattering a human life so that I can be here" but still rather questionable since they can inhabit practially anything alive. Now I've got this vision of manitid spirits that favour actual preying manis.

Still, the though of 4 inch tall bugs being inhabited by force 8 bug spirits... ew. Awesome and kick ass, but ew.

[HardSix]

oys with a PC who's a Chicago survivor, screws with her head a bit. They uncover a corp bughunt program, maybe, that has Mantids assembling more of their kind from wimps and being sent out after the other bugs. Then they decide what to do about it, if anything.

Works for me, although I agree with the line of thinking they'd (insect spirits) prefer the "taste" of vessel with life experiences.

What if, months ago, the corp performed extensive testing to determine which genetic matrix/matrices is/are optimal for insect inhabitation. Luckily they found one, from some street doc or Tanamous... and so they start churning out wimps by the dozens. Months later, during their first encounter with one (or more) of the identical Mantid clones, the 'Runners find out that the wimps are all clones of one of the 'Runners. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Works for me, although I agree with the line of thinking they'd (insect spirits) prefer the "taste" of vessel with life experiences.

What if, months ago, the corp performed extensive testing to determine which genetic matrix/matrices is/are optimal for insect inhabitation. Luckily they found one, from some street doc or Tanamous... and so they start churning out wimps by the dozens. Months later, during their first encounter with one (or more) of the identical Mantid clones, the 'Runners find out that the wimps are all clones of one of the 'Runners. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

How...... Rude, and definitely creepy... I Think that I like it...

[The Jake]

As an aside, I would expect that having no host memories would mean the body would have no reason to "live" or fight the inhabitation.

Thus, wouldn't it mean that all such wimp-merges would (automatically?) become true form insect spirits?

I don't suppose this would be a problem if you want to create an army. This certainly presents a frightening pospect for someone looking to create a new Hive....

- J.

[KCKitsune]

As an aside, I would expect that having no host memories would mean the body would have no reason to "live" or fight the inhabitation.

Thus, wouldn't it mean that all such wimp-merges would (automatically?) become true form insect spirits?

I don't suppose this would be a problem if you want to create an army. This certainly presents a frightening pospect for someone looking to create a new Hive....

- J.

The only problem is that many clones is going to raise red flags all over the place. I mean it's nothing for one or two clones... what you're talking about is hundreds. The Corps and/or governments would find out and then hang on to your bobby sock because it's going to be a bumpy ride.

[The Jake]

The only problem is that many clones is going to raise red flags all over the place. I mean it's nothing for one or two clones... what you're talking about is hundreds. The Corps and/or governments would find out and then hang on to your bobby sock because it's going to be a bumpy ride.

I don't have Augmentation on hand but a Medical Facility could hold a decent number of clones. As long as you're getting new clones on a regular basis, it would take a long time before anyone caught on.

If however, all the merges were True Forms, I would agree. But if the Queen +/or Shaman is using their conjuring to help swing the inhabitation whichever way they want it would be trivial to create whatever form of spirits you wanted. The only limitation would be the hosts would have no memories, making them kinda pointless for a Flesh Form.

The possibilities here however are rather frightening.

- J.

[darthmord]

Think clones with skillwires, wired reflexes, etc... BEFORE Inhabitation.

Flesh Form gets full use of those things...

That's where it'll get scary.

[Ravor]

I guess my question would be, why in the frak would the Bugs waste their money on clones when they they could simply hunt the SINless if they were worried about legal issues and only use SINners when they wanted to get into posistions of power.

[nezumi]

Clones don't have essence/spirits. Therefore, I have to imagine that magical/spiritual creatures may find clones quite unpalatable.

[Screaming Eagle]

Looked up the rules: "Living beings" - theoretically they could inhabit a redwood tree, any passing bird or bee or one of those multi km sized community mushrooms or that nasty mildew in you runners shower (when was the last time you cleaned up your apratment you slob?). The only other restriction is those outlined under the "inhabitation" power. You would need quite the lodge to inhabit a redwood.

But they don't unless they "need" to as outlined in their descriptions. Why they perfer metahumans is left as an exersise in horror writing and could easily vary for types of insect spirit. In the body-snatchers "they are replacing us" idea using clones could easily be a tolerable stopgap to build up numbers for phase 2. It's more a tactic I would think the communal insect types would be using to make true forms in the early stages (I like the communal types being more of a ravaning horde forsed to stealth) but if you are trying to paint the Mantids as "not the worst of the bad guys" and they are avoiding destroying human lives.

And this is where I'd make them good and sypathetic, get the runners to help them etc. Right up till the point I spring some deeper horror - like the alternate facility when they are arranging the breeding of insect spirits to release into the wild for later hunting, the very spirits the Runners have been helping the Manids hunt. They don't mind inhabiting clones but they perfer to eat "free-range" insect spirits... think the Wendigo and their eating cannabals.
*Tucks this into roladex for later*

[Ravor]

Still, I have to ask what is the payout to the spirits for using clones in the first place? A group of runners is at best a small speed bump and the gov/corps simply don't care about the SINless masses.

[The Jake]

I guess my question would be, why in the frak would the Bugs waste their money on clones when they they could simply hunt the SINless if they were worried about legal issues and only use SINners when they wanted to get into posistions of power.

Because they already tried that and failed (what do you think Universal Brotherhood was all about?).

Even SINless have friends. Eventually people start to notice their friends disappearing or coming back "changed".

Clones have no friends, no reason for anyone know they are missing, no history and no baggage. They are ideal to create soldiers that won't be missed (albeit not cheap at 40k per full grown clone) but you wouldn't want to use them for infiltrators since they'd have no memories.

- J.

[The Jake]

Think clones with skillwires, wired reflexes, etc... BEFORE Inhabitation.

Flesh Form gets full use of those things...

That's where it'll get scary.

Not really. Can Flesh Forms even use AR? I can't recall by RAW. I thought it was only Hybrid forms - which is what you'd need for this to be truly terrifying.

- J.

[Ravor]

Perhaps I'm misremembering, but I seem to recall that the Universal Brotherhood almost suceeded and only really fell apart when the Bugs started going after SINners.

Besides, it would have been nearly impossible to stop the bugs if they had hunted the SINless from hidden hives instead of starting their own creepy religion.

[Neraph]

Think clones with skillwires, wired reflexes, etc... BEFORE Inhabitation.

Flesh Form gets full use of those things...

That's where it'll get scary.

Hybrid Form. Flesh forms are not explicitly stated as getting access to those, so by the rules they do not. Hybrid Form merges, however, do. And they get Force to Stats.

[Neraph]

Clones don't have essence/spirits. Therefore, I have to imagine that magical/spiritual creatures may find clones quite unpalatable.

Wrong. Otherwise the Escaped Clone quality on page 97 Runner's Companion would state you can't take cyber/bio.

They are ideal to create soldiers that won't be missed (albeit not cheap at 40k per full grown clone) but you wouldn't want to use them for infiltrators since they'd have no memories.

Use Type-O bodies - 25,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) . Almost half price.

EDIT: Also, check out my Signature for more ideas with Inhabitation.

[Snow_Fox]

This raises some really wild theories, which we've already htought of, but with some corps experimenting with insects in gaurd animals, only a matter of time before they try this. sure they spirits woud prefer a strong will/soul to chow down on, the rank and file might not have any choice where summoned and so a corp could summon spirits into a serries of wimps and go to having a group of flesh forms mass produced without having to grab street meat that will go missing.

[hobgoblin]

I guess my question would be, why in the frak would the Bugs waste their money on clones when they they could simply hunt the SINless if they were worried about legal issues and only use SINners when they wanted to get into posistions of power.

simple, that train have come and gone, see a certain brotherhood (or should it be brooderhood?) and bug city...

crud, when will i learn to fully read a thread before being snarky...