The Juicer Sam...doable?, The wonders of Modern Chemistry? Options

[tsuyoshikentsu]

And again... Since K-10 is synthetic, you cannot use a Chemical Gland for it... so no need for a second one containing the Dopadrine...

Stop making claims without proof. Book doesn't say it's synthetic, there are natural performance enhancers out there, it's good to go.

[Mäx]

Stop making claims without proof. Book doesn't say it's synthetic, there are natural performance enhancers out there, it's good to go.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Are you actually trying to claim that kamikaze grade ten is a naturally occuring substance and not a designer combat drug cook up in lab.

[Larme]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Are you actually trying to claim that kamikaze grade ten is a naturally occuring substance and not a designer combat drug cook up in lab.

It could be... maybe it comes from the glands of the grade 10 kamikaze sheep (which is a mutated version of the grade 9 kamikaze sheep) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[tsuyoshikentsu]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Are you actually trying to claim that kamikaze grade ten is a naturally occuring substance and not a designer combat drug cook up in lab.

I am claiming that it is a "simple compound made of elements found naturally in the body."

[Mäx]

I am claiming that it is a "simple compound made of elements found naturally in the body."

That simple part is just riduculus when where tlaking about K-10

[Critias]

There's no point in arguing it, guys. It doesn't say anywhere that it's a synthetic, so he's never going to agree that it very probably is. I once had to bicker with someone who insisted his Phoenix Shaman could never ever die, because the fluff for the totem said they were constantly reborn, and the "crunch" for the totem never specifically said they could perish.

When someone's made up their mind to be pedantic, it's best to just let 'em go. If he wants Chemical Glands full of K-10 in his game, let him have 'em.

[Larme]

I am claiming that it is a "simple compound made of elements found naturally in the body."

All chemicals come from something natural, because all atoms with any kind of usefulness are naturally occurring elements. It's not a natural chemical, however, unless it occurs in nature. It doesn't matter whether its ingredients are naturally ocurring, it only matters if there's a plant or animal that you could distill pure k-10 from. It would be nice if they'd been clearer about definitions, but you don't know anything about chemistry if you think that all chemicals made from naturally occurring ingredients are themselves natural. Synthetic means exactly that, it was synthesized. The only way it exists is when you make it, on purpose. The only way for something to exist naturally is for nobody to make it on purpose, it just shows up. Not its ingredients, but the thing itself. Because kamikaze has to be made, i.e. synthesized, it is very clearly synthetic.

Also, why would you even care? Like someone would give themselves a k-10 chemical gland if they could? One biffed edge roll and you're locked up in the loony bin, or put down like a sick animal. No thanks...

Also, where did that language even come from? It's not in SR4A or Arsenal 2nd printing under Kamikaze OR K-10. That means neither of them, per the text, are simple or naturally occurring. So not only would you be wrong if the language you quoted were relevant, you've given us an irrelevant quote and pretended that it applies to what we're talking about.

[wylie]

2 things...

anyone know what Galek is? it is listed in the price list in arsenal, but no writeup or errata on it

2nd:
my feeble attempt at a SR juicer
Juice
body 4, agi 4, reaction 5, str 3
cha 3, intu. 3, logic 3, will 3
edge 2

1st aid (combat wounds) 2(4), close combat 4, athletics 4, throwing weapons 2
outdoors 1, automatics (carbines) 3(5), longarms (shotguns) 5(7), pistols 3

street drugs 3, military 2, literature 2, security procedures 3, merc hangouts 2
russions (native), english 3, mandrian 2, japanese 1

contacts: jane: dealer L1 C3

ex. attr. reation, high pain tolerance 1 level
addiction mild

2 autoinjectors, w/ 6 dose cap., reakt, synch, biomonitor, nanosymbiotes lvl 2, nanohive

cram, jazz, kamikaze, nitro, Dopodine, overdrive, betamesh, G3, oxy. Fluor., ripper, snuff
no pint, Little smoke

squatter LS,
armor jacket,survival knife, remington 990, AK-97 carbine, ruger super warhawk

Juice has a russian background, and now works as a merc to support his habit. I am thinking of calling him Toopik (russian for dead end, if I understand it correctly)

it would most likey kill him, but this is an idea of of the bonus, at 21 stun unresisted
+5 reaction, +3 intiv. passes, +4 str, +3 will, +2 perception, +2 agi, +1 body, high pain tolerance 9

and thats before adding qualities and other 'warez in

ok, i know its gonna get ripped, but have at it

[DuctShuiTengu]

Galak is one of the ones they snuck in, in this case tucked into the entry for eX (second paragraph). It's a more potent version made from awakened orchid pollen

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Also, where did that language even come from? It's not in SR4A or Arsenal 2nd printing under Kamikaze OR K-10. That means neither of them, per the text, are simple or naturally occurring. So not only would you be wrong if the language you quoted were relevant, you've given us an irrelevant quote and pretended that it applies to what we're talking about.

The reason it's relevant is that that text is from Chemical Gland. If a compound is simple and can be produced from elements found in the body (i.e., no heavy metals), then it can be produced by a chemical gland.

[Aberrant]

I say go ahead and be a juicer and a chromed out beast.

My longest played Runner is a drug-addled, low essence Street Sam named Jacknife. Jacknife is chromed to hell and back, but he also does drugs.

He is addicted to both bliss and cram currently. Sometimes the reality of the horrible things he does hits him and he needs to chill out, hence the bliss. And sometimes he will use Cram to psych himself up or for a little edge.

Also, Jacknife has 1 dose of K-10 in an autoinjector, but he has to date not had to use it.

The fun of playing a juicer is that it brings out the gritty side of the Genre. Drug addicts are not reliable, generally. Once a major part of a run came up where Jacknife was high as a kite on bliss. It is not easy to pull of a run when you are stoned, I tell you that much. Another time he was waiting in a service tunnel to sneak into a corporate enclave. After a few hours, I decided to test for addiction. Failed, he shot up.

[Larme]

The reason it's relevant is that that text is from Chemical Gland. If a compound is simple and can be produced from elements found in the body (i.e., no heavy metals), then it can be produced by a chemical gland.

Ok, and what makes you think K-10 is such a substance? Nothing, you just made it up.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Ok, and what makes you think K-10 is such a substance? Nothing, you just made it up.

Nothing to say it isn't a legal target.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The reason it's relevant is that that text is from Chemical Gland. If a compound is simple and can be produced from elements found in the body (i.e., no heavy metals), then it can be produced by a chemical gland.

Kamikaze is a "Tailored" combat drug, says so in the writeup, thus man-made... that is what "tailored" means at its base...
K-10 is an EXPERIMENTAL combat drug, thus by definition, it has to be created in a lab, and is therefore "Tailored," which results in it not being natural occurring in the metabolic system, or in nature...

THEREFORE, a chemical gland is incapable of creating it by definition in the book, as it is not a naturally occurring toxin

That should solve the problem

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Unless it can be synthesized from elements that naturally occur in the human body. See above. Also, "experimental" means that the drug hasn't ben approved for general release yet.

[Larme]

Nothing to say it isn't a legal target.

Nothing we say can dissuade you or stop you. Get your K-10 chemical gland, become slightly more powerful, then go permanently berserk and force the team to put you down. See if I care (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Unless it can be synthesized from elements that naturally occur in the human body. See above. Also, "experimental" means that the drug hasn't ben approved for general release yet.

NO... If it has to be synthesized, it is not a naturally occurring substance...

[tsuyoshikentsu]

NO... If it has to be synthesized, it is not a naturally occurring substance...

Examples of these naturally occurring compounds include...simple compounds made of elements found naturally in the body[.]

RTFM.

[Jaid]

RTFM.

you should read what you just quoted. those are examples, not "everything that fits under any of these categories is allowed".

the examples they gave were nitrous oxide and cyanide, which are not even remotely close to being similar to K-10 or kamikaze.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

We don't know that, because we don't have a chemical formula established for either. The various cyanide compounds the body produces are fairly complex, and an incredibly deadly poison strikes me as about the same complexity as a drug.

[Larme]

We don't know that, because we don't have a chemical formula established for either. The various cyanide compounds the body produces are fairly complex, and an incredibly deadly poison strikes me as about the same complexity as a drug.

Guys, he's just trolling at this point. Stop feeding the troll.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

We don't know that, because we don't have a chemical formula established for either. The various cyanide compounds the body produces are fairly complex, and an incredibly deadly poison strikes me as about the same complexity as a drug.

Except that many naturally occurring metals, alkaloids, and other simple (or not so simple) compounds are EXTREMELY DEADLY to humans... but if you have to Synthesize a substance, it is no longer naturally occurring, but is now man-made... you cannot get around that logic...

Poppy seeds by themselves are relatively harmless to the human body... but when you Synthesize the various medicinal, or recreationl, drugs from them, then it is now a substance that has been man-made (these substances do not occur naturally)... Betel Nut good... Cocaine bad... One is natural, the other synthesized...

And besides, if you WANT to have a chemical gland that dispenses Cyanide into your system, well, be my guest, but don't complain when it kills you....

And no matter how you slice it... Kamikaze and K-10 are not produced by the body (any body, plant or animal) naturally, are synthesized in a Laboratory, and cannot be placed in a Chemical Gland...

But if you wish to do otherwise, it is your perrogative, and feel free to do so, just please do not attribute that decision to RAW...

My 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

[Zurai]

Guys, he's just trolling at this point. Stop feeding the troll.

That's rich, coming from you. It's also a straw man.

[Larme]

That's rich, coming from you. It's also a straw man.

Ok, lol. Do you know what a straw man is? It's an argument you impute to someone else that they didn't make. Then you attack the straw man instead of their real argument, claiming to have proved their position false, when you've really attacked something that was not even their position. You may want to brush up on your logical fallacies before you go throwing them around. You're about as clear on the meaning of "straw man" as you are on the meaning of "synthetic." Before, I may have entertained a shadow of a doubt about your intent to troll. Thanks for banishing those doubts, now I know to a certainty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Wiggles Von Beer...]

Nothing we say can dissuade you or stop you. Get your K-10 chemical gland, become slightly more powerful, then go permanently berserk and force the team to put you down. See if I care (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Or go berserk, then have the team stun/medicate you into unconsciousness. Then have your new character keep the berserker in restraints, until mayhem is needed. Then let him loose, and use an auto-injector to put him back under when needed.

Would probably work best with an unarmed/melee combat monster.