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> What Armor Modifications Do You Use?, All in one feature or a mix?
HappyDaze
post Jun 28 2009, 01:40 PM
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When using the optional rules in Arsenal, armor modifications are limited to (1.5 x [greater of B/I]) or 6 total rating points. I think this is a good optional rule, and I'm now looking at modding out some armor. This left me wondering about a few things.

For those that use this option, whatdo you tend to take? A mix of lower level protections, or just one at the maximum rating? Which mods or mixes of mods are most commonly used by your PCs and/or NPCs?
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Eleint
post Jun 28 2009, 01:45 PM
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Depends.

For infiltrators, Thermal Damping is key, plus some chemical protection.

For street samurai, nonconductivity and chemical protection are key.

To my mind, you -need- nonconductivity and chemical protection for samurai, with how easy it is to get dropped by such things.
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HappyDaze
post Jun 28 2009, 01:51 PM
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Outside of the crunch, I have a hard time viewing armor with chemical protection as being comfortable to wear for any amount of time since it's made of "water-resistant, nonporous, and impermeable materials." It may not matter in the mechanics, but that would be a bitch to wear for long without some added features to cover the heat build-up.
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DuctShuiTengu
post Jun 28 2009, 05:27 PM
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Chemical Protection (gas grenades and similar attacks) and Nonconductivity (tasers, stun batons, etc.) are the two most valuable of the protective enhancements based on the frequency with which the attacks they protect against show up.

For stealth types, both Ruthenium Polymer Coating and Thermal Damping are good buys for keeping you hidden.

Autoinjectors, gel packs, and shock frills have never done anything for me, but if they fit what you're going for...

My advice is this-
If you're a stealthy type, grab Furthenium Polymer and Thermal Damping.
Whether you're stealthy or not, Chemical Protection and Nonconductivity are the next 2 to invest in.
If you've maxed those out and still have room and money, go ahead and grab insulation, fire resistance, and radiation shielding.
If you really want autoinjectors, gel packs, or shock frills, take a few to ask if maybe you wouldn't rather get something else to help gain whatever benefit it would grant. If you still want it, reduce the rating of one of the others.
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p4rtridge
post Jun 28 2009, 06:01 PM
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What book is that ruthenium polymer thing out of?
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Machiavelli
post Jun 28 2009, 06:45 PM
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My mage uses a combination of form-fitting body armor and an armored vest. This is already above his body-limit, but he has no sklills that refer to physical attributes so i donĀ“t care. As an addition, he has shock frills on it to prevent people coming too close (no close combat skill ^^)
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Falconer
post Jun 28 2009, 06:59 PM
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I don't know if you can stick a mod on the FFBA or not.


But overall... if out to completely trick out armor.
I'm fond of FFBA level 1 or 2... if possible w/ electrical resistance. (electrical damage is just the nastiest side effects)
If I want resistance to anything, it's electrical.

Camo suit... (w/ ruthenium if possible... it's a full body suit and no reason you can't 'adapt' the camo or make it look like something like a plumbers or mechanics work outfit).

After that.. 1 or 2 points of chem resist (mostly because of the acid rain problems to protect the kit... seems rather IC since most of the rain gear in the game has it at about that rating). Then some more points split between fire and cold resist.
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Eleint
post Jun 28 2009, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE (p4rtridge @ Jun 28 2009, 02:01 PM) *
What book is that ruthenium polymer thing out of?


Arsenal. It can be added to any full-body suit. Basically turns it into a Chameleon Suit. -4 penalty to perception checks to spot the wearer.
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p4rtridge
post Jun 28 2009, 07:18 PM
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Reading that ruthenium coating section it doesnt mention it being incompatible with chameleon suit, do they stack?
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Eleint
post Jun 28 2009, 07:29 PM
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QUOTE (p4rtridge @ Jun 28 2009, 03:18 PM) *
Reading that ruthenium coating section it doesnt mention it being incompatible with chameleon suit, do they stack?


I'd guess not, considering the Chameleon suit is supposed to be coated with Ruthenium Polymers already.
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DuctShuiTengu
post Jun 28 2009, 07:29 PM
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QUOTE (p4rtridge @ Jun 28 2009, 09:18 PM) *
Reading that ruthenium coating section it doesnt mention it being incompatible with chameleon suit, do they stack?

I would assume the answer is no, since the description of the chameleon suit notes that it uses ruthenium polymers to provide its stealth bonus.
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p4rtridge
post Jun 28 2009, 07:35 PM
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i didnt figure that logically they would its just with RAW i figure you could argue that technicality (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Knight Saber
post Jun 28 2009, 09:39 PM
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I'm surprised to see so many people taking chemical protection... against what? Most chemical attacks are inhalation-based, so you'll need a gas mask or respirator regardless. There's not a single contact-only chemical on the basic list.

I usually go for Insulation and fireproofing. Fire Elementals are a common combat peril (of the elemental types) and fireballs are a popular combat spell.
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Falconer
post Jun 28 2009, 09:48 PM
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Knight... acid rain is a problem in most of the 6th world (especially seattle).

Do you like having your equipment ruined because it can be damaged by inclement weather?
Especially when it only takes 1 or 2 points of hardening (out of 9 or 12 valuable).
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DuctShuiTengu
post Jun 28 2009, 10:13 PM
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Also, gas masks (complete immunity to inhalation vector toxins) are only 100 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) . The two together let you throw around pepper punch grenades with a fair degree of safety and a pretty good chance of screwing your opponents (part of what I look for with these protections is opening up more options for myself and my team, not just shutting down effective avenues of attack for enemies).
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Muspellsheimr
post Jun 28 2009, 10:43 PM
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QUOTE (SR4A p.254)
GEAR | PROTECTS AGAINST | PROTECTION
Chemical Protection | Contact, Inhalation | +Rating


Usually a combination of Chemical Protection, Fire Resistance, Nonconductivity, & Thermal Damping, depending on the character/build. Of those, Chemical Protection is the most common, Nonconductivity is the least.
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Draco18s
post Jun 29 2009, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Jun 28 2009, 05:43 PM) *
Usually a combination of Chemical Protection, Fire Resistance, Nonconductivity, & Thermal Damping, depending on the character/build. Of those, Chemical Protection is the most common, Nonconductivity is the least.


Interesting.
Our games tend to go (from most common to least) Fire, Electricity, Cold, Chemical.
I should also point out that no one has ever had to roll against cold damage.
I think my last character went 50-50 on the Fire and Electric.

I take that back, we had a toxic mage for a little while in the last game. Though only one PC was ever hit by the acid.

Repeatedly, though the toxic mage claims it was the other guy's fault.

I'll revise to Fire, Electric, Chemical, Cold.

For a while our two ShadowRun GM set each other on fire. Every game, without fail. I've also become paranoid about electric damage from having been a rigger who owned 5 drones, all of which got hit by a high force electric ball spell, which made me hate 4th edition's lack of armor mods to drones (at the time).
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nezumi
post Jun 29 2009, 03:24 PM
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Generally I take four or five levels of shoulder pads, with either studs, spikes or, when the mood strikes, sequins. This takes the bulk of the space on my jacket. Pants I outfit with spandex and my hugely obvious junk. I don't wear a helmet, but my GM allows me +1/1 for spending 100 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) a month in hair spray. I use that spot for Eye-Piercing Colors. My boots I outfit by encasing them inside of larger, heavier boots.
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McAllister
post Jun 29 2009, 03:33 PM
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...David Bowie? Is that you?
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Kev
post Jun 29 2009, 05:41 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Jun 29 2009, 11:24 AM) *
Generally I take four or five levels of shoulder pads, with either studs, spikes or, when the mood strikes, sequins. This takes the bulk of the space on my jacket. Pants I outfit with spandex and my hugely obvious junk. I don't wear a helmet, but my GM allows me +1/1 for spending 100 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) a month in hair spray. I use that spot for Eye-Piercing Colors. My boots I outfit by encasing them inside of larger, heavier boots.


There's someone who really knows how to play SR! ... No seriously, Axl Rose is that you, circa 1985?

Anyway, the most common mods I'll insist any characters take are Nonconductivity (Rating 6, if possible - tasers suck!), usually on FFBA, then whatever armor is worn over that will have, first and foremost, Fire Resistance followed by either Thermal Dampening, Chemical Resistance, and/or Ruthenium (but this only applies to a full-body suit, such as the Urban Explorer jumpsuit or the Camoflage Suit).

Shock Frills, Auto-Injectors... eh. Gel Packs are good for melee monsters, but they never floated my boat because of the knockdown potential.
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the_real_elwood
post Jun 29 2009, 06:18 PM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Jun 28 2009, 04:43 PM) *
Usually a combination of Chemical Protection, Fire Resistance, Nonconductivity, & Thermal Damping, depending on the character/build. Of those, Chemical Protection is the most common, Nonconductivity is the least.


Chemical protection only protects against inhalation vector attacks when it's applied to full suits of armor.
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Kingboy
post Jun 29 2009, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE (Knight Saber @ Jun 28 2009, 04:39 PM) *
I'm surprised to see so many people taking chemical protection... against what?


Toxic Wave spells for one...
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McAllister
post Jun 29 2009, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (Kev @ Jun 29 2009, 01:41 PM) *
Anyway, the most common mods I'll insist any characters take are Nonconductivity (Rating 6, if possible - tasers suck!), usually on FFBA, ... *snip*


Hmm. There's a rule in Arsenal (and I honestly can't remember whether or not it's optional) that states that armour mods (everything from nonconductivity) use up both RATING (max cumulative rating of mods on a suit of armour are equal to 6 or AV x 1.5, whichever is higher) and CAPACITY (full body armour and the urban explorer jumpsuit from the BBB, plus certain armour suits in Arsenal are listed to have it).

I'm sorry, there were three parentheticals in that bloated, massive sentence.

My point is that Arsenal doesn't list any capacity for mods in FFBA (nor in armour clothing, biker gear, or several other armour pieces), so, my intepretation is that FFBAs are a no-go for armour mods. The rationale I'd use is that, being form-fitting and all, they're complex enough and strapped enough for space that you can't strap anything onto them or swap anything into them without adding bulk or sacrificing protection.
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McAllister
post Jun 29 2009, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (the_real_elwood @ Jun 29 2009, 02:18 PM) *
Chemical protection only protects against inhalation vector attacks when it's applied to full suits of armor.


I thought that was the rule for chemical SEALs. Where does it say that? Apologies, I don't have my books with me.
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DuctShuiTengu
post Jun 29 2009, 07:45 PM
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QUOTE (McAllister @ Jun 29 2009, 09:27 PM) *
Hmm. There's a rule in Arsenal (and I honestly can't remember whether or not it's optional) that states that armour mods (everything from nonconductivity) use up both RATING (max cumulative rating of mods on a suit of armour are equal to 6 or AV x 1.5, whichever is higher) and CAPACITY (full body armour and the urban explorer jumpsuit from the BBB, plus certain armour suits in Arsenal are listed to have it).

I'm sorry, there were three parentheticals in that bloated, massive sentence.

My point is that Arsenal doesn't list any capacity for mods in FFBA (nor in armour clothing, biker gear, or several other armour pieces), so, my intepretation is that FFBAs are a no-go for armour mods. The rationale I'd use is that, being form-fitting and all, they're complex enough and strapped enough for space that you can't strap anything onto them or swap anything into them without adding bulk or sacrificing protection.

Those are actually two seperate optional rules. One imposes a capacity limit for armor suits, the other imposes a maximum number of modifications for armor based on their armor value (and uses the lined coat - no capacity - as an example). The problem with your suggestion is that the vast majority of armors don't have capacity, which would make it impossible to modify any of them either.

The more likely way to apply these two together would be either a: armors with capacity use that instead of the normal maximum modifications, or b: armors with capacity use that in addition to the normal maximum. I tend to assume the former, though the later makes the armor suits more attractive.

Edit to Add: Where the upper limit on armor mods can potentially get abused is the SecureTech PPP system. 5 pieces of inexpensive extra armor to help squeeze in a little more protection - and if they're treated as 5 seperate items, this opens up another 30 modifications that you can throw in (which may not cause too many problems with game balance, but it does make the upper limit a bit of a joke - and may result in annoyance from your other players if they're having problems with the cap on modifications). I recommend either treating the full set (or however much of it you have) as one piece for purposes of armor mods (you may need to fiddle with things a bit to decide what mods are still there if your players decide to skip parts of it) or as a modifier to their other armor.

Edit Again: Rephrased original portion as it was written badly and missed a couple points.
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