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> Shadowrun Achievements, Just a few thoughts
Dave
post Jul 4 2009, 03:59 PM
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I'm always trying to add things into my game to make it more fun/challenging and with more and more console/PC games and shipping with achievements I figured why not...even the SR console game has achievements. But that it where I have stumbled, I seem to have hit a bit of a block and some help to get things back on track.

So far I have come up with the following achievements, each one is worth 1 good karma and each player can only achieve one once:

- Heal 20 boxes of damage for your fellow runners.
- Kill 10 enemies in continuous actions without using combat pool to soak/dodge.
- Kill 20 enemies with your summoned spirits.
- Kill 100 enemies with the Katana.
- Kill 20 enemies with a light pistol.
- Kill 100 enemies with a Minigun.
- Kill 100 enemies using vehicle weaponry.
- Kill 20 enemies using explosives.
- Kill five enemies with one grenade.
- Make 5 headshot in any one combat scene
- Kill 20 enemies while blinded.
- Jump in the way of a Deadly hit meant for someone else.
- Survive 3 headshots in any one combat scene.
- Play an entire campaign using only pistols.
- Survive and entire combat scene without any player taking damage.
- Fence 500,000 worth of paydata.
- Banish 20 spirits.
- Take control of 20 spirits.
- Get a maximum initiative roll.

My main concern is that I seem to have a lot of 'kill' ones and I don't want the game to spiral into (more) mass slaughter, so I would like your help coming up with ideas for achievements that are a bit different.
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Stahlseele
post Jul 4 2009, 04:15 PM
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KILL IT!
KILL IT WITH FIRE!
And i mean the idea of handing out achivements for things in SR . .
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Doc Chaos
post Jul 4 2009, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jul 4 2009, 06:15 PM) *
KILL IT!
KILL IT WITH FIRE!
And i mean the idea of handing out achivements for things in SR . .


Torches, gasoline,tar and feathers in place, sir. Just give the word!
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Stahlseele
post Jul 4 2009, 04:27 PM
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I think i just did O.o
Seriously? What's the point?
Rather award them with karma, be it good or bad, for certain things.
If they are funny, neutral karma. If they are holy samaritarians, bad karma.
If they are sociopathic assholes? good karma.
It's allready in there and it has an effect on the game/characters.
Seeing the "Heal 20 Boxes of Damage" . .
Players will do the following: Weakest character in the round will bitch slap the combat monkey while the latter is not wearing armor.
The latter will not dodge or anything and hold back enough dice to take exactly one box of damage.
weakling will heal that one box.
rinse and repeat ad nauseum.
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Critias
post Jul 4 2009, 04:35 PM
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I think someone's taking the idea of light-hearted XBox 360 style achievements a little too seriously.

Also, I think someone didn't notice that each one can only be done once.
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Dave
post Jul 4 2009, 05:33 PM
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I didn't ask if you thought it was a good idea, just help in expanding things. Sure I'll give it a go and it might work wonderfully or turn the game on it's head but I won't know until I try.

QUOTE
And i mean the idea of handing out achivements for things in SR . .

Yeah, how dare I try to make it fun for my players.

QUOTE
Players will do the following...rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

The GM giveth and the GM taketh away, if they abuse the system it's gone.

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Stahlseele
post Jul 4 2009, 05:58 PM
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I don't see WHY such a thing would be needed.
Karma-Reward is right there.
And if you must be picky, Kill it with fire is a valid response.
Explain to me please how such things are going to make it fun.
I don't seem to be capable of understanding that somehow.
I like playing Fallout3, and i did not even try to get the Achievements.
They just pop up some time and i don't really pay any attention to them.
In the worst case scenario i get distracted by them in a combat and die <.<

But if you really REALLY wanna do this . . take a look at the notority/street-cred rules.
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McAllister
post Jul 4 2009, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE (Dave @ Jul 4 2009, 11:59 AM) *
I'm always trying to add things into my game to make it more fun/challenging and with more and more console/PC games and shipping with achievements I figured why not...even the SR console game has achievements. But that it where I have stumbled, I seem to have hit a bit of a block and some help to get things back on track.

So far I have come up with the following achievements, each one is worth 1 good karma and each player can only achieve one once:

- Heal 20 boxes of damage for your fellow runners.
- Kill 10 enemies in continuous actions without using combat pool to soak/dodge.
- Kill 20 enemies with your summoned spirits.
- Kill 100 enemies with the Katana.
- Kill 20 enemies with a light pistol.
- Kill 100 enemies with a Minigun.
- Kill 100 enemies using vehicle weaponry.
- Kill 20 enemies using explosives.
- Kill five enemies with one grenade.
- Make 5 headshot in any one combat scene
- Kill 20 enemies while blinded.
- Jump in the way of a Deadly hit meant for someone else.
- Survive 3 headshots in any one combat scene.
- Play an entire campaign using only pistols.
- Survive and entire combat scene without any player taking damage.
- Fence 500,000 worth of paydata.
- Banish 20 spirits.
- Take control of 20 spirits.
- Get a maximum initiative roll.

My main concern is that I seem to have a lot of 'kill' ones and I don't want the game to spiral into (more) mass slaughter, so I would like your help coming up with ideas for achievements that are a bit different.


Well, Dave, I like your idea, and I'd certainly like to help you come up with some non-killing achievements.

- Get on three illegal drugs at the same time, and survive the consequences
- Finish an extraction without any party member dealing physical damage to anyone.
- Finish an extraction without any party member dealing ANY damage to anyone
- Fast-talk a Mr. Johnson into giving away something he didn't mean to (of course, they're usually pretty damn tight-lipped)
- Seduce a character who has good reason to be your enemy (i. e. you snuck into the facility she's guarding, you robbed him, etc. etc.)
- Convince a significant character (not just some random beatlehead off the street) of something (there is no god, all Muslims are scum, Elves are plotting take over the world) that has a permanent effect on his/her worldview
- Kick a moderate (or worse) addiction (which involves more roleplaying than "fine, I pay 20 karma to not be addicted to BTLs any more")
- Get below 1 Essence
- Experience a serious change to your body (I'm thinking latent awakening/technomancer/dracomorphosis/metagenetics etc. etc.)
- Survive a journey to the Metaplane of Death
- Astrally perceive in a mana void, and live to tell the tale
- Cast a spell at force 10 or higher in a combat situation, and remain standing
- Bind a spirit of force 8 or higher, and remain standing
- Start a magical group or technomancer guild, and collect 10 members
- Hack a Technomancer's biological node (only available to Technomancers, unless your hacker invents a way to spoof a Resonance signature)
- Banish/decompile a spirit/sprite and then register/bind it for yourself
- Thread a Complex Form to rating 14 or higher
- Disrupt a threatening (i. e. not force 2) enemy spirit without using spells, Killing Hands, a weapon focus, any application of the Banishing skill, or spirits of your own (in other words, while not being Awakened)
- Write a program rated 7 or above
- Deal with a dragon and come out ahead (not necessarily ahead of the dragon, but having gained from the deal with no great loss)

I tried to throw in a bunch of achievements for Awakened, because they need the karma most, but love must be spread. These are just more suggestions.

Stay strong, brother.
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Backgammon
post Jul 4 2009, 07:07 PM
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In one combat-heavy game where the players were fighting through a bunch of Loup-Garou, I told the players whomever killed the most would get 1 extra karma. It worked, the players had a lot of fun trying to out do each other
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Stahlseele
post Jul 4 2009, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE (Backgammon @ Jul 4 2009, 09:07 PM) *
In one combat-heavy game where the players were fighting through a bunch of Loup-Garou, I told the players whomever killed the most would get 1 extra karma. It worked, the players had a lot of fun trying to out do each other

And THIS is what i meant.
And THAT is why i can't understand.
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TBRMInsanity
post Jul 4 2009, 08:08 PM
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I would also add to your list:
* Make it through an entire run without causing any non-essential casualties (ie no injuring the mooks).
* Covering your tracks (on the physical, astral, and matrix areas) so that it is impossible to trace your group after you finish the run.
* Related to the above, redirect blame to some third party so they take the rep for your run.
* Staying in character the entire game session.
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Muspellsheimr
post Jul 4 2009, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE (Backgammon @ Jul 4 2009, 12:07 PM) *
In one combat-heavy game where the players were fighting through a bunch of Loup-Garou, I told the players whomever killed the most would get 1 extra karma. It worked, the players had a lot of fun trying to out do each other

So you basically told the Face "Fuck you".
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Mirilion
post Jul 4 2009, 09:33 PM
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I think this is a fun idea.
Also, I would make it a point to explain to my players that if they set out to achieve an achievement, they won't. It's not something that their characters think about.

Another idea is to personalize achievments for characters. Choose a number of achievements for each character to accomplish, based on their background and personality. Once they achieve them, they can try to achieve
a higher "rating" of that achievment, for the 1 point karma bonus. "heal 20 boxes" becomes "heal 30 boxes", for example (a lame example, but still).
After a while, when the team is more experienced and team members are more comfortable together, you can choose a number of "group achievements"
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Heath Robinson
post Jul 4 2009, 10:24 PM
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Accumulation-based achievements are good for computers (where every activity is explicitly programmed and counting is cheap). For humans? What a pain.

P&P RPG Achievements are best done like this:

  • Your opponent is me!: hit a flying paracritter with a sword (i.e. monosword) in melee
  • Mistakes of one's youth: hit a target with a flying kick delivered using a bipedal drone
  • I'm sorry: kill a teammate whilst berserking, under the influence of a mental manipulation or illusion, due to the effects of brainwashing, or whilst under the effects of Influence, Compulsion or similar powers
  • Battle Damage: violate public nudity ordinances as a result of hostile acts on the part of another
  • But I did not shoot the deputy: confess to a crime as an alibi for another
  • I call her Vera: solve a major problem with inventive application of a firearms skill
  • Please lend me your lighter: persaude the team that your native language isn't


Just a single act. It's easier to check for and can be hidden from the player (since no independant counting needs to be done). It also meshes best with how people actually think achievements should work - they're a notable act in and of themselves.

The best thing about this? You can just make them up when people do cool things. That's the point of Achievements in P&P RPGs - a witty title to comemorate your awesomeness. This has existed since forever.
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Ravor
post Jul 4 2009, 10:56 PM
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I'll agree with Stahlseele and Doc Chaos, the trend towards treating PnP Games like another fricking video game is just wrong. Instead you should just award Karma for roleplaying and "Holy Shit that was awesome!" moments.
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Summerstorm
post Jul 4 2009, 11:05 PM
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Yeah... i am against it too.

While the idea may be funny, and one could make smart use of achievements, it is completely wrong for a Pen&Paper game. See, in computer games, Achievements are there to recognize the player for beeing good, tenacious, smart, or having a sense of humor. It is about the PLAYER.

In a P&P game, the player IS the character. So you just accomplish that character aren't acting as themselves, when the players are hunting achievements. Suddenly you have passive, nice guys hunting for kills. People who may horrible fail at something try it, instead of letting their specialist do it... and much much more. It is chaos. P&P are not videogames. The D&D guys in their forth edition forgot that too (With balancing the classes, and providing static healing for quicker dungeon-grinding and such)

We should stop trying to meld these two in this fashion.

That is all.
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Stahlseele
post Jul 4 2009, 11:06 PM
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I don't remember who, but someone on these boards i think posted a story in which the combaty characters in the group called each others shot and made them too . .
Char1:"The Elf! One Bullet. Left Eye in, right Ear out!"
Char2:"The Ork! Left Nut in the Sack!"
And through some minor twinkery n the characters and good dicerolls actually made these shots and got the much more numerous Enemy to back off, because the Enemy could HEAR them tell each other exactly who was going to be shot where . .
In Instances like these for example, Major Karma Award!
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Backgammon
post Jul 5 2009, 01:12 AM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Jul 4 2009, 03:12 PM) *
So you basically told the Face "Fuck you".


Calm down Captain Righteous, there was no Face. Combat-heavy game. Everyone had fun, even the tech specialist, who had his moment to shine earlier in the game.
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nezumi
post Jul 5 2009, 02:43 AM
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- 20 deaths by falling objects
- Longest fall by a PC
- Collateral damage from a single event in excess of $5,000,000
- Survive (i.e. no death, no arrest) in a police chase for twenty minutes from when the first police vehicle locks onto yours
- Seduce 5 individuals with significant security responsibilities related to your run(s)
- Set 50 people on fire
- Survive an entire non-matrix, non-astral, non-rigging run wearing only a single article of clothing, smaller than a jacket.
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Oregwath
post Jul 5 2009, 03:34 AM
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You need the loser achievement too. The one awarded at the end of the campaign for finishing the game without achieving a single achievement.
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Ancient History
post Jul 5 2009, 03:56 AM
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Use the rules in Shadowbeat to bring back disco.
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Dave
post Jul 5 2009, 07:23 AM
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Many thanks to everyone who has posted, your replies have certainly given me a few things to think about.

QUOTE
Use the rules in Shadowbeat to bring back disco.

It never left!
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GreyBrother
post Jul 5 2009, 08:48 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jul 4 2009, 06:27 PM) *
Seeing the "Heal 20 Boxes of Damage" . .
Players will do the following: Weakest character in the round will bitch slap the combat monkey while the latter is not wearing armor.
The latter will not dodge or anything and hold back enough dice to take exactly one box of damage.

Wouldn't happen in any group i ever played with.

I think its actually a average idea. but go on and do it, i'm inspired for bonus karma for various "achievments"
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TBRMInsanity
post Jul 5 2009, 02:46 PM
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I think what would be a better idea is to have one secret goal for each archetype in the game and if a player hits that goal then give them a bonus karma point. The rest of the bonus karma should go for role-playing, making the gaming session enjoyable (for everyone), and staying in character (and the last time I checked SR was about sneaking rather then straight up gun fights).

The list is looking like the trophies list of some hack and slash game.
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McAllister
post Jul 5 2009, 03:23 PM
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SR is about sneaking? I thought we'd established that SR is what you make of it in an earlier thread. That's my take, anyway.

However, a quick run through the SR4A Gear Listing shows 13 pages for blades/clubs/guns/grenades/armour and... let's see... 5 pages of security systems, a page for security devices plus B&E gear... let's count the 2 pages of survival gear (most of it's useful for sneaking) and a page of disguises, for a total of 9.

So at the very least it's open to interpretation.

Also, you're right about the OP; it's very much about killing, and then killing some more. Since I would imagine that your proclivity for stealth has given you experience playing games where it is featured, what do you think some good achievements would be for a session that's less Serious Sam and more Sam Fisher?

P. S. to clarify my tone, I think you're saying that Dave's proposal is a too arcade-y, which is valid (particularly if you play a different kind of SR game), but I think there's nothing wrong with it (especially because the list he wrote probably reflects what's impressive in the sort of game he plays/runs), and I have a sort of knee-jerk reflex to disagree with "SR is about" statements. It's probably because, IRL, a lot of people try to tell me what "life is about," and disagreeing with them only gets me so far.
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