Healing Drain Damage... how?, Need help w/ SR4 rule Options

[SaintHax]

For all the previous editions, only time could heal drain damage-- or the spell Heal couldn't, at least. I can't find this entry in SR4. I looked at the index for the core rules, and read every page associated w/ the words "Drain", "healing", and "heal".

So, if I overcast and take 3 boxes of Physical... can I heal that w/ Heal, first aid, or medicine?

What about Stun? Can I stim patch it? Can I rush the extended test for healing stun?

Where are the pages that cover this?


Thanks!

[Malachi]

The rule that the Heal spell couldn't heal magical drain was added in an errata, so go to the website and grab the latest document there. Other than that, all other forms of healing are fair game for drain: First Aid (with Medkits), and Stim Patches for Stun drain. There has been more than one debate here that First Aid healing Physical Drain is a "break" in the system as it encourages Mage's to Overcast.

[Jaid]

There has been more than one debate here that First Aid healing Physical Drain is a "break" in the system as it encourages Mage's to Overcast.

well, i'm not surprised i didn't notice them, because they must have been very short-lived, because that argument is completely nonsensical. first aid can heal stun damage too. there is absolutely 0 encouragement to overcast so that you can first aid the damage away. (there are, however, other perfectly valid reasons to overcast, they just aren't related to first aid in the slightest)

[Heath Robinson]

Malachi,
I apologise for any offense my direct, brusque approach will cause but you're wrong.

First Aid can heal Stun.

Characters with the First Aid skill may immediately help reduce the trauma of wounds (Stun or Physical).

Stimpatches, also, don't heal anything at all.

This patch allows a user to ignore the injury modifiers of Stun damage; treat it as High Pain Tolerance (p. 91) equal to patch’s rating.

[SaintHax]

Thanks everyone-- that was quick and good info (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Malachi]

Malachi,
I apologise for any offense my direct, brusque approach will cause but you're wrong.

First Aid can heal Stun.

Stimpatches, also, don't heal anything at all.

Right I had forgotten about First Aid healing Stun. Yes, Stimpatches don't "heal" the damage, but they do make the penalties go away for enough time in a combat situation to be an "instant heal."

[Ravor]

Bah, just learn Blood Magic and then you don't have to worry. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Mr. Mage]

Not that it helps with actually healing Drain, but our GM has some corporate mages equipped with a special Focus that allows Mages to essentially store some of their life force into it to save for a later date. Effectively it's a one time Drain Value Armor thingie, automatically reducing the hits from Drain. It's hella expensive and can't be used to overcast, and requires you to take Drain damage to essentially "Fill it up", which is always physical, not stun, and has a chance to be destroyed the first time it is used.

So far, I've only been able to get one of them off of the baddies, but its only a Force 1 (Meaning it only soaks up 1 point of Drain per charging).

You could always try something like this (with your GMs permission), at least to lessen the effects of Drain, thus lessening your need to be healed. But place the emphasis on REALLY FRIKIN EXPENSIVE because it is kinda powerful.

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

Just a quick note:

In SR4, stim patches DO NOT heal stun damage - they allow you to ignore (rating) boxes of stun damage before calculating dice pool modifiers.
You'll still pass out when your condition monitor is filled.

Edit: And Mal already made the point.

[Cain]

Not that it helps with actually healing Drain, but our GM has some corporate mages equipped with a special Focus that allows Mages to essentially store some of their life force into it to save for a later date. Effectively it's a one time Drain Value Armor thingie, automatically reducing the hits from Drain. It's hella expensive and can't be used to overcast, and requires you to take Drain damage to essentially "Fill it up", which is always physical, not stun, and has a chance to be destroyed the first time it is used.

So far, I've only been able to get one of them off of the baddies, but its only a Force 1 (Meaning it only soaks up 1 point of Drain per charging).

You could always try something like this (with your GMs permission), at least to lessen the effects of Drain, thus lessening your need to be healed. But place the emphasis on REALLY FRIKIN EXPENSIVE because it is kinda powerful.

They have such things already. They're called Centering foci, they're of comparable cost to other foci, and their only limit is that they can only be used by a mage or adept with Centering. Otherwise, they simply add dice to your drain test, and aren't one-shot.

[Zurai]

They have such things already. They're called Centering foci, they're of comparable cost to other foci, and their only limit is that they can only be used by a mage or adept with Centering. Otherwise, they simply add dice to your drain test, and aren't one-shot.

That's not at all what he was describing.

[McAllister]

You're right, Zurai, it isn't (and I think Cain realizes that), but it would probably be easier (and certainly much more effective, if you resist drain more than once in a run) to acquire a Force 3 Centering focus than this life-storing one. I personally think that homebrew focus is a great Blood magic idea, particularly if you can fill the focus up with other peoples' life (call it a Sacrifice focus), but I guess Cain's point is that there are already rules for a focus to (in Mr. Mage's words) "lessen the effects of drain."

[Mr. Mage]

You're right, Zurai, it isn't (and I think Cain realizes that), but it would probably be easier (and certainly much more effective, if you resist drain more than once in a run) to acquire a Force 3 Centering focus than this life-storing one. I personally think that homebrew focus is a great Blood magic idea, particularly if you can fill the focus up with other peoples' life (call it a Sacrifice focus), but I guess Cain's point is that there are already rules for a focus to (in Mr. Mage's words) "lessen the effects of drain."

Oh yea...I know there are plenty of other ways out there to do lessen drain. And of course, centering Foci is one of them that worls continually, but this Drain Foci (we don't actually have a name for it) is useful in that any Mage can use it, even with out the Centering Metamagic. It really all comes down to that my GM and I really like working out new magical items, its fun!
Rather than Blood magic though, what we were trying to come up with was sort of a Mana Potion kind of thing for this Focus, y'know, not using your own magical source but using an external one, hence the actual Drain reduction and not the Dicepool increase.

We're still working on it, which is why the players don't have very many of them.

[Aberrant]

Rather than start a new thread, I have a bit of a related question.

Adrenaline Pumps state that the user cannot fall unconscious during their duration. Does this mean, basically, that if a mage with one took a ton of drain, that they would stay standing?

More importantly, will this keep my merc standing when he gets hit with a high force stunbolt.

[Mr. Mage]

Rather than start a new thread, I have a bit of a related question.

Adrenaline Pumps state that the user cannot fall unconscious during their duration. Does this mean, basically, that if a mage with one took a ton of drain, that they would stay standing?

More importantly, will this keep my merc standing when he gets hit with a high force stunbolt.

It might keep him standing, but I would guess that overflow on his Stun track would still count towards Physical damage, and that any overflow on his Physical track would start to kill him. It's basically just saying that you are staying conscious, but the damage to your body is still being done. I'd even go so far as to say that DV should be increased slightly, just because falling unconscious is a way for your body to stop exerting itself and rest, which you would essentially be nullifying.

Edit: Yes, btw, if the description of the item says that you will not fall unconscious, then your merc will continue to stand, but will be taking heavy penalties from the damage and will most likely immediately fall down when the Pump deactivates.

[Aberrant]

Edit: Yes, btw, if the description of the item says that you will not fall unconscious, then your merc will continue to stand, but will be taking heavy penalties from the damage and will most likely immediately fall down when the Pump deactivates.

Nice. The mage in our group is a bit of a jerk sometimes with the whole 'I can knock you out just by looking at you' routine. I try and have a plan to kill all of my teammates.

[SaintHax]

Nice. The mage in our group is a bit of a jerk sometimes with the whole 'I can knock you out just by looking at you' routine. I try and have a plan to kill all of my teammates.

Glad to know I'm not the only one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mr. Mage]

Nice. The mage in our group is a bit of a jerk sometimes with the whole 'I can knock you out just by looking at you' routine. I try and have a plan to kill all of my teammates.

Does your mage have a good Perception? Are you stealthy? Does he need to sleep? hmmmmmm.....
"For your transgressions against me, prepare to die!" (Say this in a fake japanese ninja voice, like a personified cliche)

That does sound pretty jerky for a mage to act though, but take comfort in the fact that taking you down will probably leave him drained and unprotected. Plus, he may be able to knock you out easy, but you're probably better with a gun and he might not be all that great at defending, since powerful magery requires you to spend BP and Karma into magic, and not much else, so you could probably kill him just as easily and NOT take drain (unlike him).

And honestly, I'd be willing to bet that almost everyone has some sort of plan for killing their teammates, its just standard player paranoia. What does that say about this subculture's ethics though?

[Ravor]

Just a nitpick, but instead of Foci you really should call the "mana potions" fetishs instead.

All in all, I like the idea, but would require using Blood Magic to charge it.

[Mr. Mage]

Just a nitpick, but instead of Foci you really should call the "mana potions" fetishs instead.

All in all, I like the idea, but would require using Blood Magic to charge it.

Yea...as I said...we're working on it....but now I'm stuck on the idea of actual Mana Potions....as in some sort of Magical Drug/Substance that helps with Drain in some way....

[Jaid]

Yea...as I said...we're working on it....but now I'm stuck on the idea of actual Mana Potions....as in some sort of Magical Drug/Substance that helps with Drain in some way....

well, you start with an anchoring focus (a flask triggered by drinking it). the person drinking said 'potion' needs to have the appropriate metamagic (i think it's absorbing or something like that?), and when the spell fires on them they just counterspell a bunch and use that for their next drain test, iirc.