Forced 4:1 rule-- explain Options

[SaintHax]

So, I've gotten some PM's and there are people not using it as I understand it.

As written in the FAQ, all extended tests that happen between missions use the 4:1 rule. No where does it say, that this is only if the test is done while not at the table, but I've been told that it's been understood that if the GM was still there... and it's still part of the mission... then characters are rolling (much better results this way) for equipment. As amost all equipment will take an interval longer than a mission runs for, this does not seem to follow what I read.

Please tell me-- does my group's face have an option of rolling his skill to find gear? If not, then it seems that my group is going to get punished b/c I understand the rules (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif) In our game session this weekend, our GM was telling us how they fenced a large item for 50% of its value-- again, this seems to be about 40% more than what it's worth in SRM.

I'm hoping I'm wrong, and the FAQ just didn't make sense to me, b/c I'm starting to think that despite these rules, I'm going to see a lot of better than probably characters at GenCon this year, b/c everyone is playing differently.

[DireRadiant]

You should also consider the only cost of the 4:1 rule in between missions is that you may end up paying lifestyle costs.

For example, I'm looking to get equipment that has threshold 20, I have 8 dice, it's going to take simply 10 weeks to get the gear. The only negative is that I and up paying for two months lifestyle for the 10 weeks I spent between missions.

Finding gear to use during the mission is also going to be different then fencing loot which can happen in downtime after a mission. Players do get to roll during a mission to find gear.

As for better characters... there are always better characters and players, not because of earned karma, but because of builds and players effectiveness.

It's not about winning the mission, it's about having fun.

[Aaron]

We'd like all downtime activity to use the rules in the FAQ. The reasoning behind this can be found in my posts in this thread, but in this matter they can be boiled down to the following.

We want to remove arbitrary rulings and random results from downtime.

If people want to try dodging this rule with their GM to shave a couple of days off of the receipt of that but purchase, we can't stop them. There are no Missions Police; we rely on the honor and honesty of our players.

If your face wants to use his or her own dice pool to do the downtime thing, that's already legal per the rules in SR4A. If he or she has a bigger dice pool than the contact with the Connection rating bonus, I say go for it. But we're sticking with the buying hits rule. There's no need to worry about the trustworthiness of a player because everything is independently verifiable. If there is ever any doubt (say, in the case of the character at Origins with the obscenely large weapon; I think it was a surface-to-air missile), the player can just show you the math.

And if your players ask you why it has to be 4:1 and not 3:1, please refer them to the link above.

[Aaron]

For example, I'm looking to get equipment that has threshold 20, I have 8 dice, it's going to take simply 10 weeks to get the gear. The only negative is that I and up paying for two months lifestyle for the 10 weeks I spent between missions.

Er ... by my math, you'd need at least 14 dice to get something with Availability 20. You forgot to apply the cumulative -1 dice pool modifier for Extended Tests, which this sort of thing uses per the FAQ.

Yes, this means that you might not be able to get something at all (at least with the resources you have), but it also fulfills another Missions meta-goal: keep the game at or just above street-level.

[DireRadiant]

New math, old math, I get confused.

[Cadmus]

Ah well. no panzers for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) thankfuly cap rounds and nova coke are cheap! now where did that enemy mage and my sniper rifle go? Nothing says I love you like doping the enemys magical support with drugs at long range (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SaintHax]

As for better characters...

Not "better characters", but "better than probably". As in, by the rules in SRM, it's unlikely they could be that good or have that item. I don't worry about people having a "more powerful" character than me. I think I was the least powerful character (*cough*at-this-point*cough*) at the table this past game day.

Thanks for the rules clarification. I wanted to make sure I wasn't hindering the Orlando group b/c I misunderstood the rules, and was inforcing something not canon to SRM.

[BishopMcQ]

Also, remember that if you pay extra you can get more dice. (The Availbility Test, p. 312, SR4A)

[1Johnny]

[quote name='Aaron' date='Jul 6 2009, 05:57 PM' post='821208']
If there is ever any doubt (say, in the case of the character at Origins with the obscenely large weapon; I think it was a surface-to-air missile), the player can just show you the math.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Actually it was a Minidrone. And yes, I did have the papers to show how it happened to fall off the back of that truck.

But the new system does make it much easier to figure out if you can get a piece of equipment. I like it because some of the more outrageous items that don't have a huge cost, but do have a huge availability, now have a game mechanic to make you have to think about if an item is worth while.

And yes, it does make being a face much more worth while if you can also open up a bag of goodies and have that really cool XYZ that the samurai has been lusting for available to use. Or possibly for sale, if they want to pay for your time in getting the item. (Yes, you can get better than 10% of the item's value if you sell it to a PC.)

Oh the possibilities...

[Cadmus]

Possibilites yes, though in missions its pretty cut and dry yes or no, not as many possibilities (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) After all your on a time limit here, ooo we can do a new type of spot! competitive Speed, you do what? Its where each team trys to get the GM to say.. wait your doing what? in as little time as possible.

If you can compleat the modual, earn the karma, make the money and confuse the hell out of the GM on how you just ate the world (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) you win! and all in a 4 hour slot.

[Bull]

If there is ever any doubt (say, in the case of the character at Origins with the obscenely large weapon; I think it was a surface-to-air missile), the player can just show you the math.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Actually it was a Minidrone. And yes, I did have the papers to show how it happened to fall off the back of that truck.

Good players find a way to sneak in some extra stuff too. I had one player at origins who managed to get some kinda big nasty item off me (May have been a drone. Maybe it was you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) in lieu of payment from an Ares contact. It made a certain amount of sense, and toys can always be taken away easy enough, so I let him have it. <shrug>

Man, I really wish i could PLAY more Missions. Of course, with my insistance on playing at Table Rating 6 when I can, I have to wonder how long Rush will live. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bull

[SaintHax]

I just realized something: only our face can get a legal purchase w/ availability over nil for our group (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[BishopMcQ]

SaintHax--If any of you have a Fixer, she can get the gear for you as well. (Related contacts such as an Arms Dealer finding weapons also would work) Check out SR4A, p. 287--Swag.

[SaintHax]

*doh* I knew that, and meant to add it to my reply.

[BishopMcQ]

SaintHax--No worries. But yes, you either need the skills or the contacts to do it, or you can throw a lot of money at the problem. (Per normal Availablity rules, you can increase the nuyen you will pay to receive DP modifiers.)

[Cadmus]

Do you have extra edge at teh end of the run? what about assisting your face in getting gear via the assist rules? just roll your edge, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SaintHax]

Do you have extra edge at teh end of the run? what about assisting your face in getting gear via the assist rules? just roll your edge, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Still being forced to take a 4:1 rule for an extended test, I have 1 Charisma, and 2 Edge. If I default, and use my Edge to add to my DP, I get 2 dice. Charismas gives me 1, defaulting -1, edge gives me 2. If I could get a DP of 4, by buying one level in Negotiations, I'd only give my Face one extra die to his pool (and have to burn that time on my Calendar). Unless my Face has a DP that is one off of being divisible by 4 (e.g. 19 dice), he will get no benefit from my assistance (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[twilite]

As written in the FAQ, all extended tests that happen between missions use the 4:1 rule.

Is this the general SR4A FAQ, or a FAQ for missions? If it is for Missions, where can I find it- I don't see a sticky for it in the missions forum, which would be sensible for such a document?

[LurkerOutThere]

Ahem

SRMissions FAQ

Dumpshock, and the missions forum, for all their wonders, aren't the campaign's homepage.

[twilite]

Many thanks! Missions Homepage now bookmarked! I would, however, suggest to the Dumpshock powers-that-be that a sticky with that link would be beneficial.

[Caine Hazen]

So how many things can we work on at once? Can I go out and look for something while I have 3 of my contacts looking at something else for me to overlap and save time?

[Aaron]

As long as it's another actual individual, we're cool with multitasking your downtime projects. Here's a rule of thumb: one body, one task at a time. So if you've got contacts doing stuff for you, you're free to research that new spell (or whatever), but if you're building a new drone, you can't also be looking for a cannon to put on it.