When are many Skills [i]too[/i] many?, a limitation on available skills? Options

[BookWyrm]

OK, here's a thought;

While building a character, the player wants to make sure at least as many as possible skills are covered. When listing them individually, they take up a LARGE section of the chatacter sheet/paper. Some can be condensed into an appropriate skill-group (like the Sorcery Skill Group), but some lack an appropriate group (like Etiquette & all it's variants, or esoteric skills like Media: Comic Books and Media: Science Fiction Films).

Would the more esoteric skills default to their appropriate main category (Active, Knowlegde, Technical, ect.) or do they stand out?

I'd like your opinion.

[Mr. Mage]

wait...are you just asking how to better organize your skills on the character sheet to make it easier to read?
I say use eXcel or another spreadsheet program instead of the normal character sheets. There are even some XL sheets you can download with programming in them alread to do most of the math for you. Other than that, I don't usually bother to organize my skills except for having them written down in the order I took them, i.e. first skill I chose is first on the list, etc.

Sorry if this is absolutely no help at all...I'm just not understanding what you're asking. No fault of yours, we just think differently I guess.

[Sma]

While I don't quite see how the underlying problem of more words take up more room on paper can be solved without resorting to a smaller typeface. I'll simply take the ball and run with it.

For our game at home we removed knowledge skills as written and instead introduced 7 knowledge skill categories and hobbies. Every character may pick two of these categories at creation and later buy them up as wanted. Additionally every character can have as many hobbies as he likes.

The Knowledge Groups are: Matrix, Security, Magic Theory, Crime, Engineering, Sociology, Biology and Corporations.
Hobbies are freeform and may give a arbitrary bonus.


Why do that?

Knowledge skills as written are basically a crapshoot in regard to how useful they might or might not be in any campaign. Having a few relatively distinct skills allows the player to be sure that his invested points are going to have a return while the hobbies still allow for the characterisation the knowledge skills were formerly good for.

This also allow a GM to assign specific thresholds (or at least be consistent in off the cuff rulings) to determine knowledge that a player character may or may not have instead of having to make a on the spot runling on the number of successes needed for when player A uses Seattle Street Gangs (Ancients) versus Player B's Criminal Organizations (Elven) without ruling unfairly one way or the other.

[BookWyrm]

While space IS a problem, I was wondering more along the lines of if said skill defaults to said group.

Mr. Mage: Thanks for the idea. I'll check it out.

Sma: That's an interesting idea, I'll have to try it out.

[Traul]

Etiquette belongs to the Influence skill group.

[Mr. Mage]

While I don't quite see how the underlying problem of more words take up more room on paper can be solved without resorting to a smaller typeface. I'll simply take the ball and run with it.

For our game at home we removed knowledge skills as written and instead introduced 7 knowledge skill categories and hobbies. Every character may pick two of these categories at creation and later buy them up as wanted. Additionally every character can have as many hobbies as he likes.

The Knowledge Groups are: Matrix, Security, Magic Theory, Crime, Engineering, Sociology, Biology and Corporations.
Hobbies are freeform and may give a arbitrary bonus.


Why do that?

Knowledge skills as written are basically a crapshoot in regard to how useful they might or might not be in any campaign. Having a few relatively distinct skills allows the player to be sure that his invested points are going to have a return while the hobbies still allow for the characterisation the knowledge skills were formerly good for.

This also allow a GM to assign specific thresholds (or at least be consistent in off the cuff rulings) to determine knowledge that a player character may or may not have instead of having to make a on the spot runling on the number of successes needed for when player A uses Seattle Street Gangs (Ancients) versus Player B's Criminal Organizations (Elven) without ruling unfairly one way or the other.

We actually have something slightly similar to that. I have always disliked that there are so many KNowledge skills, and yet so many things are not actually covered by them. For the most part, we just tend to choose a general knowledge group and roll with it, or use the closest related one. i.e. someone can either choose to have knowledge of Megacorps in general, or have knowledge of a specific Megacorp, but use that knowledge skill to learn about other corps/subsidiaries/rivals.

IMHO, knowledge skills don't really have a game application, they just help flesh out what the character is most interested in. It is expected, after all, that someone who has learned how to use a gun should know about guns (maintenance, how they work, different models, etc.) even if they don't have the knowledge skill since the two kind of go hand in hand.

[BookWyrm]

OK, let me pose this;

Say the character has some 'esoteric' skills--
Comic Books
Sci-Fi Trivia
Minor Clothing Repair

Where would these fall in a Skill Group? Do they stand out? What would their Default be?

[tete]

OK, let me pose this;

Say the character has some 'esoteric' skills--
Comic Books
Sci-Fi Trivia
Minor Clothing Repair

Where would these fall in a Skill Group? Do they stand out? What would their Default be?

Minor Clothing Repair would perhaps fall under artisan or crafting
The other two could fall under pop culture

[BookWyrm]

OK, thanks everyone. This thread can be closed.