NAN Fading, Has the NAN somehow faded into obscurity? Options

[Daylen]

Well, it's a mistake to ever start thinking about reality or logic. Yes, for skillwires to function for gun fights, you'd need some kind of special sensor-computer-muscle control system (basically, a Pilot rigging your body). We can ignore that, because it's not the rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Really? I thought that's what activesofts were. They interface with yer brain and if they are done right can do nasty things to you. I think someone even used the basic premis of activesofts gone bad to take control of people.

[CanRay]

One of the reasons I've never seen any of the PCs in my group get any. They know I'd do something.

[Yerameyahu]

That's what I'm saying, Daylen. They *work* that way, but they're not fluffed that way. The fluff says they're little muscle controllers distributed around your body, but the crunch says that they just flat give you skill rating (with certain limits), including skills that wouldn't necessarily use your muscles at all. It's all very silly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

What we know is that body rigging doesn't exist in SR4, even though this would be how it works… sort of. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Activesofts are simply 'magic', in that they work because the book says so. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[LurkerOutThere]

One of the reasons I've never seen any of the PCs in my group get any. They know I'd do something.

Congratulations on punishing people, or at least theoretically punishing people, for daring to take cyberware. Everyone should take mages all the time.

I really despise cyberware hacking as a concept and think it's one of the worst things that 4th edition introduced as it's one more disincentive to take cyberware. Welcome to Magicrun.

[Yerameyahu]

No way, cyberware hacking is so cyberpunk. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Giving the very limited rules on cyberware hacking, though, there's no reason to think you could control people via their skillwires. You could shut them down, just like everything else; worst case, you could unload the softs they want and *maybe* load buggy, useless/dangerous softs. Maybe.

Besides, no one said the NPCs have to do it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Grinder]

As much as enjoy discussions about Skillwires and their impact on SR fluff and background, let's return to the topic at hand, shall we?

[CanRay]

So... How 'bout them Sioux Wildcats?

[TommyTwoToes]

Because I was bored at work today, I came up with this as a possible reason for American capitulation.

The room went quite as the National Security Advisor returned to his seat. Each member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff looked around, each man trying to gauge the response of the others. None of them were quite willing to believe that a disaster on this scale could be created through “magic”.
The President’s face drained of color, his knuckles white, as he gripped the edge of the table. The sealed air system could not filter out the smell of fear from the bunker. Suddenly the President stands upright.
“That’s it, I have had enough!” He looks to one of the Secret Service agents and beckons “Bring in that guy with The Football.” The agent speaks quietly into the microphone concealed in the cufflinks of his jacket.
A young Air Force captain enters the room carrying a secure metal briefcase, handcuffed to his arm. He places the case on the conference table before the President with the expected level of apprehension. The President pulls a key from under his shirt, it is held around his neck by a thin chain, similar to those used for dog tags.
Opening the case, he places the key into a small switch and rotates it. A long string of alpha numeric characters is displayed on a small screen. The President lifts a phones handset from within the case and pauses. “If anyone is responsible, it’s the damned Russians, I always knew they had it in for us.”
The men around the table are stunned by the sudden turn. They look bewildered. No one has suggested a connection between the volcanic eruptions and the Russians. An excited shout from an Army General “If you any information saying the Russians were involved, that should have been shared! We are doing joint disaster relief missions with them right now.”
The President’s face slackens and he collapses into his chair. He speaks with a voice that sounds distant and completely changed from mere seconds ago. “This is Howling Coyote. You now know what we can do. There is no safety. You cannot hide. Your own forces can be turned against you. Your own bodies can be turned against you.
“I could have ordered bombers to drop nuclear weapons anywhere in the world and you would have obeyed. Your commanders in the field can be turned against you just as quickly. You will give me what I want. You will meet all my demands. That or you will watch helpless, as your precious cities burn, and burn by your own hand.”
The President suddenly slumps back in his chair. His eyes flutter and then he seems to recover. A shocked silence lies heavy in the air. The National Security Advisor lights a cigarette “Gentlemen, we just lost the war.”


This scene would require a shaman with Improved Invisibility and Control Thoughts.

[LurkerOutThere]

Secret service spends edge to resist, shoots magic 4 or so shaman. Did contorl thoughts exist in first edition? I don't think the writing teams had yet taken complete leave of their senses yet. Nevermind the fact that if they had that kind of capability there'd be no need for the ghost dance.

[TommyTwoToes]

Secret service spends edge to resist, shoots magic 4 or so shaman. Did contorl thoughts exist in first edition? I don't think the writing teams had yet taken complete leave of their senses yet. Nevermind the fact that if they had that kind of capability there'd be no need for the ghost dance.

The roll is made in secret since he doesn't get to know that he is resisting invisibility, so he doesn't spend edge?

And I aggree, for their stated goals, the Ghost Dance was not needed.

[Doc Chase]

The roll is made in secret since he doesn't get to know that he is resisting invisibility, so he doesn't spend edge?

And I aggree, for their stated goals, the Ghost Dance was not needed.

Reh? What other options did they have left to them at that time? They were socked away into internment camps, and the Lakota's interpretation of the Ghost Dance was of an Earth with the 'wickedness washed away'. Or Anglos, if you will. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

It was perfectly reasonable and within rights for them to do it since they were facing a more numerous and techonologically superior foe. In comes the Deus Ex Magica.

[Yerameyahu]

Well, depending on what 'reasonable' and 'rights' mean. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Warlordtheft]

Except the great Ghost Dance wasn't sustanable. It has been hinted in places that it was a form of blood magic. The big question is if there was a need to do it again, could the NAN do it. I'm not sure, something tells me that Howling Coyote knew that they could not kick the Anglos completely out, so they settled to own the midwest and rocky mountains that had fewer Anglos to move. The Canandian territories ceded were even less populated.

[Doc Chase]

@Yera - They still didn't have a lot of options on the table. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

@Warlord: If the Verner trilogy was canon, then the Ghost Dance is blood magic as the second iteration ate more than a few people, IIRC.

[TommyTwoToes]

@Warlord: If the Verner trilogy was canon, then the Ghost Dance is blood magic as the second iteration ate more than a few people, IIRC.

This, combined with the options that they should have had available with the commonly used Invisibility and Control Thoughts spells, should strongly point to the Ghost Dance having a different purpose. Especially since it was "given" to them by an inhuman thing (I mean Elf).

[CanRay]

This scene would require a shaman with Improved Invisibility and Control Thoughts.

Or a material link and Control Thoughts.

People wouldn't have been as careful with material links back then. A bit of hair or blood from the President, while difficult, would not be impossible to get.

I mean, honestly, what were they going to do with the president's HAIR?

Guess they found out.

[Shinobi Killfist]

My excuse has always been the people in power were like, "You want the flyover states? No problem." Having lived in New York and a few othe rbig city places I don't want to say it is the prevailing attitude of the populace, but its not far from it. Or another way to look at it, you have a bunch of blue states and the blue state president is told he has to give up the red states. It is like my hookers its a Nguyen, Nguyen situation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[KCKitsune]

My excuse has always been

...SNIP...

My excuse for the fluff behind SR is the people at FASA took a big book of cultural stereotypes and rather than go "Yeah, we'll use this one and this one and throw the rest out", then looked at the book and went "Yes". Then they did a really big hit of LSD.

Also FASA had another really big shortcoming... they made one group Uber and the rest the fecal matter that you scrape off your shoe. Case in point BattleTech and the Clans. In Shadowrun they made the Immortal Elves and Great Dragons.

[Daylen]

My excuse for the fluff behind SR is the people at FASA took a big book of cultural stereotypes and rather than go "Yeah, we'll use this one and this one and throw the rest out", then looked at the book and went "Yes". Then they did a really big hit of LSD.

Also FASA had another really big shortcoming... they made one group Uber and the rest the fecal matter that you scrape off your shoe. Case in point BattleTech and the Clans. In Shadowrun they made the Immortal Elves and Great Dragons.

you aren't saying their writing was prone to having Mary Sue characters and wish fulfillment fantasies are you?

[BlueMax]

My excuse for the fluff behind SR is the people at FASA took a big book of cultural stereotypes and rather than go "Yeah, we'll use this one and this one and throw the rest out", then looked at the book and went "Yes". Then they did a really big hit of LSD.

Also FASA had another really big shortcoming... they made one group Uber and the rest the fecal matter that you scrape off your shoe. Case in point BattleTech and the Clans. In Shadowrun they made the Immortal Elves and Great Dragons.

And it sells, and we played, so I think it works.

BlueMax
/Lyran BTW
// Eff that clan drek
/// Just a nice suit of Lyran BA like Commando

[CanRay]

LSD, for all your writing needs!

[Daylen]

And it sells, and we played, so I think it works.

BlueMax
/Lyran BTW
// Eff that clan drek
/// Just a nice suit of Lyran BA like Commando

As far as their writing, I haven't enjoyed that since middle school. Their rpg rules are some of the best I think though.

[Mordinvan]

Because I was bored at work today, I came up with this as a possible reason for American capitulation.

The room went quite as the National Security Advisor returned to his seat. Each member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff looked around, each man trying to gauge the response of the others. None of them were quite willing to believe that a disaster on this scale could be created through “magic”.
The President’s face drained of color, his knuckles white, as he gripped the edge of the table. The sealed air system could not filter out the smell of fear from the bunker. Suddenly the President stands upright.
“That’s it, I have had enough!” He looks to one of the Secret Service agents and beckons “Bring in that guy with The Football.” The agent speaks quietly into the microphone concealed in the cufflinks of his jacket.
A young Air Force captain enters the room carrying a secure metal briefcase, handcuffed to his arm. He places the case on the conference table before the President with the expected level of apprehension. The President pulls a key from under his shirt, it is held around his neck by a thin chain, similar to those used for dog tags.
Opening the case, he places the key into a small switch and rotates it. A long string of alpha numeric characters is displayed on a small screen. The President lifts a phones handset from within the case and pauses. “If anyone is responsible, it’s the damned Russians, I always knew they had it in for us.”
The men around the table are stunned by the sudden turn. They look bewildered. No one has suggested a connection between the volcanic eruptions and the Russians. An excited shout from an Army General “If you any information saying the Russians were involved, that should have been shared! We are doing joint disaster relief missions with them right now.”
The President’s face slackens and he collapses into his chair. He speaks with a voice that sounds distant and completely changed from mere seconds ago. “This is Howling Coyote. You now know what we can do. There is no safety. You cannot hide. Your own forces can be turned against you. Your own bodies can be turned against you.
“I could have ordered bombers to drop nuclear weapons anywhere in the world and you would have obeyed. Your commanders in the field can be turned against you just as quickly. You will give me what I want. You will meet all my demands. That or you will watch helpless, as your precious cities burn, and burn by your own hand.”
The President suddenly slumps back in his chair. His eyes flutter and then he seems to recover. A shocked silence lies heavy in the air. The National Security Advisor lights a cigarette “Gentlemen, we just lost the war.”


This scene would require a shaman with Improved Invisibility and Control Thoughts.

And every native in north america just ate a bullet.....

[suoq]

And every native in north america just ate a bullet.....

Gotta agree with that. Convince everyone Native Americans can take over people's bodies and there's going to be a lot of dead Native Americans.

[CanRay]

Don't be so sure. Shedim are still around after all.

As for a lack of NAN stuff... Well, that would be one Sourcebook I'd buy.