NAN Fading, Has the NAN somehow faded into obscurity? Options

[suoq]

I swear, it makes me wonder why some people play Shadowrun if they hate things like this with such a passion, especially because it's so entrenched in the history of the setting that to retcon it would be IMPOSSIBLE.

I think it's because what people play isn't Shadowrun. It's a game based off of Shadowrun.

As an example, I grew up playing Monopoly as a kid. I've taught my children to play Monopoly. The game is very common, at least in North America. One could say it's part of the culture.

But I actually sat down and read the rules one night. I have NEVER played a game of Monopoly in my life. What I've been playing is a game based off of Monopoly. It's pretty close to Monopoly but it's been so houseruled as to be a completely different game. (Note. The rules may have been updated to include common houserules by now. I've heard they have but my box is old.)

I think this is what happen when people play Shadowrun. They're not playing Shadowrun, because there are parts of the rules and world that people just work around and change. What they're playing is based off of Shadowrun and that's close enough.

[Yerameyahu]

*shrug*. I think the corps/GGD/balkanization makes the most sense of anything in the setting (maybe that's not saying much). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's one whole point of cyberpunk, and it works. Done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Voran]

I think the NAN served its purpose quite well in setting up Seattle (which was pretty much the primary hub of game focus in the beginning) as a city surrounded by potential enemies. It purposefully parsed down a large ..well..state...into a manageable region to both explore and explain. Basically creating its own megacity or colony, but keeping the landmarks relatively 'same'.

In the first eddy you got the sense that Seattle was almost like an old school desert city, surrounded by the wilds/wastes/here there be dragons. It also set up a reason why you couldn't just pull a job and hop in your car and drive out of state so easily, forcing you to find a tense middle ground where you tried to hide while still within the immediate reach of potential enemies.

In combination with the megacorp stuff, keeping the initial area of Seattle 'small' and hyper-urbanized it also helped push away from the immediate need to explain why the rest of Washington, or for that matter the United States, didn't look like some extended Borg assimilated world, with tech and compounds and urban areas that stretched across the continent. If the lands had remained in 'American' hands, you think they would have given a shit about conservation or protecting the wilderness?

The only other alternative would have been 'um, yeah, the hippies won and...um...that's why the wilderness is still wilderness."

Part of the issue is, as the game grew and more stuff was added, the whole idea of 'being stuck in Seattle' took a back seat. Sure its kinda an embattled state surrounded by an enemy, but here's a bunch of sourcebooks telling you how PCs can basically ignore that and travel wherever the fark they want to. If we go by modern Jackpointers, its pretty common for them to be multinational/global travelers. As such, the fact that the NAN hold the territory around Seattle and across the country doesn't really mean much anymore, as PCs can go where they want, pretty much when they want.

[Grymjack]

Did anyone figure into the population numbers the fact that VITAS and VITAS 2 killed like 30% of the global population?

[CanRay]

And that the First Nations were "Lucky" to be in their internment camps and away from VITAS, thus their numbers weren't destroyed that much?

Now that I think about it, the guards were equally lucky... Then along came magic, and their luck ran out.

[Warlordtheft]

I'm still trying to figure out how Canada is able to have a modern economy with the population we currently have.

Cause a good portion of your economy is tied to the US economy and there is alot of trade between the two.

[Sengir]

And that the First Nations were "Lucky" to be in their internment camps and away from VITAS

...which makes even less sense than the NAN population numbers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Even normal prisons are breeding grounds for diseases, a concentration camp is an incubator on fast forward.

[suoq]

Did anyone figure into the population numbers the fact that VITAS and VITAS 2 killed like 30% of the global population?

Some have. but it's kind of a wash anyway.

1) Unless Native Americans were immune to VITAS I & II, it doesn't matter as far as the percentage of Native Americans vs the percentage of everyone else.
2) We could assume today's population for VITAS I*, but the population growth between I & II is really a guess. I could justify increased growth to relace the lost population. I could also justify higher child mortality rates to the point of shrinkage. Unless someone knows where the hard population numbers are in Canon, it's all a guess.

(* well, no, really we can't, since SR1 wasn't based off of the world of today. The worlds split at some point long before today....)

Edit: Assuming Native Americans were immune. .99 * .7 = .693 of the normal pop. Add that 1% back in and figure out how much is still non NA. .693/.703 and native Americans are now 1.5% of the population.

Out of every 1000 people:
990 non NAs become 693 non NAs.
10 NAs remain untouched.
So for every NA it's now 69:1 odds instead of 99:1 odds.

[sabs]

The US average of Native Americans is less than 1% and that's including Alaska where roughly 50% of the population is Eskimo.

That means that roughly there were 4 million men, women and chidlren of Native American heritage during the Ghost Dance.

Sigh, NAN just makes no sense. It's kinda cool, but it makes no sense.

[pbangarth]

Cause a good portion of your economy is tied to the US economy and there is alot of trade between the two.

It has been hypothesized that were Canada to be anywhere else in the world, it would be a regional power. Stuck where we are, tacked onto the north side of a people who live to buy stuff, we're just rich. Sucks to be us.

[CanRay]

Cause a good portion of your economy is tied to the US economy and there is alot of trade between the two.

Yeah, the same country that used political maneuvering to prevent the industrialization of Canada. Just so that Canada can, primarily, be a supplier of raw materials for the US. And then they put up tariffs on a major part of those raw materials and make China their primary trading partner. *Shakes Head* Come on US, I thought Communism was equal to THE DEVIL or something similar. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

The US average of Native Americans is less than 1% and that's including Alaska where roughly 50% of the population is Eskimo.

Inuit.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Yes, and they totally lacked any meaning way of striking back at that time. I don't think the GGD removed all the spy satellites, cruse missiles, and high altitude bombers from the U.S. arsenal.

looking at what the fluff describes of hurricances striking air bases and stuff and Low Orbit Weapons appearing only decades later, yeah, I can see how they couldn't strike back. Anyway, the split of ours timeline to Shadowrun's begins at 1989, if we assume that for the next 2 years Native Americans are blessed with a baby boon and immunity to VITAS, I don't think it is too hard to swallow the whole American balkanization.

[sabs]

remember all US policies are made to the benefit of Corporations.
Once you realize this, then you'll understand US Foreign and Domestic Policies so much better.

[CanRay]

remember all US policies are made to the benefit of Corporations.
Once you realize this, then you'll understand US Foreign and Domestic Policies so much better.

I realized that a long time ago. Canada is, basically, a Banana Republic without the climate for Bananas. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Well, OK, not really. I mean, the Prime Minister isn't a CIA plant.

...

That I know of.

Oh thanks alot! As if I wasn't suffering from ENOUGH paranoia!

[Mooncrow]

remember all US policies are made to the benefit of Corporations.
Once you realize this, then you'll understand US Foreign and Domestic Policies so much better.

The only thing that can get complicated is figuring out which corporations are making the calls at which time^^

[sabs]

The CIA and the NSA alternate who gets to have the Prime Minister as a plant every other election.
Once in a while, they let someone else get a turn. But it's rare. They're all competitive and shit.

[CanRay]

Anyway, the split of ours timeline to Shadowrun's begins at 1989, if we assume that for the next 2 years Native Americans are blessed with a baby boon and immunity to VITAS, I don't think it is too hard to swallow the whole American balkanization.

I can believe that. I mean, they wrote the Kama Sutra after all.

Oh, wait, that's the OTHER Indians, isn't it?

[suoq]

I propose the "Pern" solution.

The Native Americans and Aztecs are REAL Native Americans and Aztecs.

People ask, "What caused the Aztecs or Mayas to disappear?" The answer? They didn't disappear. They moved forward in time.

The Anasazi are back in force. Chaco Canyon and Mesa Verde are boomtowns. (Pueblo Grande de Nevada, not so much....)

[sabs]

I'm not sure whether to award you two points for such an esoteric scifi reference.
Or to fine you for daring to reference such crappy writing.

[Mooncrow]

Inuit.

Yes, most of the Eskimos in a Alaska are Inuit, but unlike Canada, Alaska has a significant percentage of Yupik as well, so the inclusive wording is appropriate. (at least until they finally figure out new terminology, but they've been arguing over that for how long?)

[suoq]

I'm not sure whether to award you two points for such an esoteric scifi reference.
Or to fine you for daring to reference such crappy writing.

lol (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[kzt]

And that the First Nations were "Lucky" to be in their internment camps and away from VITAS, thus their numbers weren't destroyed that much?

Because everyone knows that crowded prisons camps are just the healthiest place in the world. ...

[explorator]

It has been hypothesized that were Canada to be anywhere else in the world, it would be a regional power. Stuck where we are, tacked onto the north side of a people who live to buy stuff, we're just rich. Sucks to be us.

Canada is pretty much the 51st State ranking just behind California. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I always thought the NAN got the short stick as far as Canada goes, seems like a perfect setting for a NAN upswing.

[pbangarth]

The US average of Native Americans is less than 1% and that's including Alaska where roughly 50% of the population is Eskimo.

According to the 2000 US Census, the percentage of native peoples to the total population of Alaska is approximately 19%. Of the native peoples, over half are Na-Dene peoples, and Eskimos make a small percentage.

Inuit.

Apparently, in Alaska they still use "Eskimo". Most of those who get this name call themselves Inupiat, not Inuit.

[pbangarth]

Canada is pretty much the 51st State ranking just behind California. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I always thought the NAN got the short stick as far as Canada goes, seems like a perfect setting for a NAN upswing.

Yeah, yeah, go ahead and troll for flames. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Of course, CanRay was in the same hunt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)