 BattleTac, IVIS, Cyberlink..., Wtf, over. |
  |
 Jan 22 2004, 05:02 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955  |
Alright, I'm running a military/tactical bad ass, small unit tactics sort of game. Everyone is clambering for Tactical Computers, Battletac, etc.
I never really got into what this shiznite was due to the fact that I saw a taccomp costing 400,000 and just gave up. Now it's come to haunt me as I can't even find where Battletac and all that good stuff is. Essentially: What is Battletac/Tactical Computers/That IVIS rigging crap? Where is it in the books? Is it even remotely worth it/have you played with it before? Thanks! |
 |
 
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 05:12 AM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
I know its spread over at least two, probably three books if not four books. The CC, and M&M, for sure. I would assume there's a snipet in the SRC as well, but IIRC, thats only a reference to the Small Unit Tactics skill. I would also assume there's something in R3, but I don't have it so can't tell ya. I'm in pretty much the same boat as you, for the same reasons.
I have only the slightest idea of how it all works and would love it if someone would explain it all... This post has been edited by kevyn668: Jan 22 2004, 05:13 AM |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 05:37 AM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Battaletac/IVIS is simply a way of exchanging information between soldiers/vehicles/ships/planes/cats/etc. Basically before this everyone had to be told on the radio: where the enemy was, what they were doing, where friendly forces were, what they were doing, what you are supposed to be doing, etc. While people are shooting at you it is difficult to say and hear all this stuff. The idea of the IVIS system is that you tell 'your' IVIS box what you see, then you don't have to clutter up the radio that much. So if you scout platoon spots the leading elements of an enemy division (or whatever) they tell thier IVIS box (which is basically a wire-less networked computer) and the computer tells all teh other IVIS boxes. This means that the scout platton has to 'say once' and it it tell all friendly forces about the spot report. As opposed to them telling the recon commander, the recon commander telling TF commander, the TF commander telling the subunit commanders and the higer ups (air, arty etc).
For small units that operate in close proximity and without higher support (ie specops/runner teams) it's not as useful. The rules appear in Rigger 3, but are slightly whack. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 06:13 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 90 |
IIRC, Battle tac also allows you to know the wound levels, current firearm ammo capacities, current locations of you networked teammates and drones. Also if your drones are equipped with additional Fire Data Direction System (FDDS) they or one of the runners can act as spotter/targetter for indirect fire or vice-versa.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 07:01 AM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,763 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Special Hell Member No.: 284 |
The BattleTac system is incredibly powerful for any team, when correctly used. Basically it makes the information that one teammember has available to all members of the team. With a BattleTac FDDM target lock, any weapon properly equipped can fire on the target and only suffer the modifiers from sensor enhanced gunnery. The BattleTac cyberlink allows matrix users to transmit targeting data to individuals operating in the real world. Linked to a tactical computer, the BattleTac system feeds the user information in real-time, requiring no actions to reference. It allows a unit of soldiers to operate as a single entity; seamlessly blending vehicle, infantry, and matrix into a precise weapon.
Applicable references are Cannon Companion: pp. 53-54, 99-101. Rigger 3: pp. 42, 94, 96. Man and Machine: pp. 22-23. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 01:21 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
My groups current team has a sniper in it. She carries the equivalent to a Berret .50, Smartgun II link, tac comp and battletac. The rest of the team also has battletac (with guncam's) on them, as well as the rigger's drones. The sniper can effectively engage a target even behind a wall... thanks to the battletac data. She gets a bonus to combat pool for every two "sensors" in the field, which she can then use in taking someone down. All in all, it's a good system, and the best I can recommend for the bad guys is jamming the signal.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 03:12 PM
Post
#7
|
|||||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Not the Barrett M121?
The way I read the Tactical Computer entry in M&M, you get a bonus to SUT per 2 senses, regardless of the amount of sensors. So even if you had 15 men all with Battletacs and connected cameras, you could only use them as one "Sight" sense (assuming at least 1 of the cameras is seeing something useful). To get maximum benefit out of the Tactical Computer, a team should have at least normal sight and all modifiers (cameras with L-L and thermo), someone with cyberears and LF+HF+Spat, a few Orientation Systems, Ultrasound Vision systems and Olfactory Boosters linked to the BattleTac network. That way you can always get at least the Sight and Hearing. I'm not sure what the canon ruling is (if there is one), but Ultrasound Vision could be considered a (separate) sense. With the Olfactory Boosters, you should get the Smell sense rather often. Millimeter wave radar systems should be useful. I guess you could argue that something like the GPS/Orientation System/BattleTac Network combination is a "sense" on its own. How you're supposed to get 8 senses to give you useful data about a combat situation, I can't figure out. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 22 2004, 03:18 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955 |
Orientation = 2 senses.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 03:42 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Orientation System: 2
Internal GPS: 1 Thermographic Vision: 1 Low-Light Vision: 1 High-Frequency Hearing: 1 Low-Frequency Hearing: 1 Ultrasound Vision: 1 Olfactory Booster: 1 Thermosense Organ: 1 There's 10 senses right there. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 03:51 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Each additional input via Battletac/drone/teammate counts as an additional sense, I think.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 04:00 PM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Oh, right you are, silly me for not reading the "fluff" part of the item first... Yeah, it implies that each additional sensor counts as a new sense. In this case, it is quite a lot more useful than I thought.
One thing I don't quite agree on: LF&HF Hearing. Does it say somewhere that those both count as a sense for the Tactical Computer? It's a bit like having both natural Low-Light vision and natural Flare Compensation (though no such thing exists, AFAIK). I can't see how those could possibly be considered 2 separate senses, unless the books unambiguously state so somewhere. Still, tack on all those mods to all members of your team, get everyone BattleTac and high-rating commgear, and you'll be guaranteed a rating-4 TacComp always. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 04:11 PM
Post
#12
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
That's the way I viewed it as well. Although, I only allow a new sense if they are providing different angles or each is viewing through different vision modes. If four guys are looking at the same target from the same direction, I don't give a bonus for all four. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 22 2004, 04:18 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 55 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Shibanokuji Freefall Resort Member No.: 1,043 |
Not to forget the sensor input (rating = # of senses) (R3, p.28) of a rigger's vehicle, if he's equipped with the TacComp
But, as always, there's a catch. The RAS..... |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 04:27 PM
Post
#14
|
|||
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Flare Comp isn't a sense because it doesn't add to the things you can normally do in a sense of hearing/seeing things. It just nullifies the effects of blinding light. HF&LF add an extra sense because they allow you to hear outside of your normal spectrum of hearing. Just the same as Thermographic allows you to see heat signatures and Low-Light allows you to see better at night, High- and Low-Frequency Hearing increase what you can hear. They just give a fuller sense of senses than regular hearing does. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 22 2004, 04:31 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 693 Joined: 26-March 03 Member No.: 4,335 |
Ooh, Fun.
I had to use CC, M&M, and R3 to get the needed info. Some of the following had to be inferred or extrapolated. BattleTac is a information-sharing network for combat. It uses whatever communications gear you've got, generally radio-based. As a guess, a person with BattleTac gear needs to have at least 2 communications channels (1 input, 1 output) devoted to serving the system. Maybe more if you've got a master unit.
So envision a platoon of high-tech troopers. The platoon leader has a BT Master unit and a Tactical Communications transmitter built into his armor, and monitors the fight through data transmitted from soldiers who are carrying Slave units and transmitters, hooked into sensors of various kinds. He makes a Small Unit Tactics test every Turn, giving everybody in his unit an intitiative bonus or extra combat pool (optional rule). His goons know where any spotted hostile is, no matter who did the spotting. And the Company Commander is getting data from the platoon leader as well, so that he can do the same thing on a bigger scale, etc. For a real-life crude version, do a search on the Army's Land Warrior concept. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 08:34 PM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 1-January 04 Member No.: 5,948 |
Does the master unit have to have a rating equal to the number of units it is receiving from, the number of units it is sending to, or both?
How come a full out external master unit does not have the full advantages as the implanted tactical computer in M&M? I do not have a copy of M&M handy, can some one clue me in as to what advantages the tactical computer offer? |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 08:48 PM
Post
#17
|
|||||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
It still doesn't make any sense to me, because I just can't see how hearing HF and LF sounds would make your hearing ability three times as effective as a source of battlefield data as your unmodified sight in most combat situations. Optimally I would like to consider "Sight" a 4-point sense, while HF and LF would only make using your hearing to get that 1 sense easier. I know that certainly isn't canon, but I don't mind. Not if canon would make HF+LF+normal hearing 3 times as effective as sight...
Neither? As far as I know, the Tactical Computer can be used as a BattleTac master unit for any number of BattleTac cyberlinks regardless of rating. The rating only affects the modifiers. After all, the Tactical Computer doesn't have an in-built rating as such, but the rating is determined by the amount of senses available. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 22 2004, 08:52 PM
Post
#18
|
|||||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: 8-September 03 From: Tempe, AZ Member No.: 5,596 |
Nope, she has a couple custom rigs I think, including a Mephisto. Im in the process of making her something a lil bit more naughty. :grinbig: |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 22 2004, 08:55 PM
Post
#19
|
|||||
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
So because you can now hear a higher band and a lower band, you don't think that helps? That whine your TV makes when it's turned on would be amplified by HF. The bass your subwoofer puts out would be amplified by LF. Sometimes those little sounds can come into effect. They can be helpful. If somebody is sneaking up on a teammate with Ruths and has Ultrasound Vision, if he's got HF, he can hear the Ultrasound being pinged, and if he has a Spatial Recognizer, can pinpoint the general area of where it is. Then, since he can hear him and generall pinpoint him, he tells his BTac that inviso-guy is at such-and-such location, then he shows up on the rest of the BTacs. Now your Rigger sends in a drone with high sensors to plug him up. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 22 2004, 09:07 PM
Post
#20
|
|||||||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
In my mind, that translates to "Yes, I think that helps." But I don't think hearing the TV whine or being capable of enjoying the bass more would help me to understand the tactical situation in a battle 3 times (!!!) as well as I can relying just on my eyes. A human being relies on his eyes a LOT, and I think it makes sense that the Tactical Computer would too.
I'm pretty sure it's not a canon SR item. My Google-Fu makes me think it's a Cyberpunk Sniper Rifle, correct? What stats did you give it? |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Jan 22 2004, 09:20 PM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Actually, it's only two more "sensors." But, by the example, it would help immensly. In other situations, it wouldn't. But one can never be too sure, right?
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 09:21 PM
Post
#22
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 1-January 04 Member No.: 5,948 |
My mistake, I was thinking of the tactical communications system. Which brings me to this question, can some one explain how the communications modules work, especially in relation to the BattleTac system? Is a tactical communication master unit needed for the BattleTac master component or can the BattleTac system transmit over any type of communications device (such as a cell phone)? |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 22 2004, 09:27 PM
Post
#23
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
But normal hearing + HF + LF = 3 "senses", right? So that would make your hearing 3 times as effective for assessing the tactical situation as your eyesight, which I just can't buy. My earlier example (eyesight 4, hearing max 1) was too extreme, but I would certainly like to see eyesight as the main contributer here. There's a reason why it's the most important sense to humans, and most large diurnal land mammals. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 22 2004, 09:30 PM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
I'd be wary about handing-out 8 points of rating from a single character's senses. A sensor suite that could do that on a vehicle would take space equal to twice the size of a human (6CF, an above-average human is approximately 3CF).
OK, so you could hook things like the orientation system in to take the sensor rating needed down to 6 or so, but that's still a system larger than a human (4CF). |
|
|
|
|
Jan 22 2004, 09:30 PM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
OK, so here are the senses and their respective cyberware counterparts for eyesight and hearing.
Normal hearing -High Frequency -Low Frequency Normal eyesight -Low-Light -Thermographic -Ultrasound Why is Thermographic or Ultrasound considered an extra sense? It's not like you have to see their heat signature to know they're there. |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 1st August 2025 - 04:10 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.