When are victims aware of mind control?, Also, are there limits? Options

[SIGNAL09]

I'm new to dumpshock. I'm sure this has been answered before, but didn't find it.

When are victims aware of mind control? I've been assuming that the answer is "always" if they do something under control actions, but what about control emotions/thoughts?

Also, are there any limits to what actions/thoughts a person can be influenced to do? I have players who are making a protocol of having mind control victims kill themselves if they have duration left after the victim is useless to them. This seems somewhat overpowered, although that may just be a perspective coming from more combat-obsessed systems.

[Aaron]

I usually just use the standard threshold of (6 - Force) to notice magic.

[Jaid]

i would expect control thoughts to become obvious as soon as the spell wears off. control emotions, i would probably rule to be a little more subtle though.

[thelovedr]

Dont you get some kind of resistance check if it harms the persons interests?

[McAllister]

I'd agree with Aaron. If they fail to perceive the magic, they just seem to have blacked out for the period they were mind controlled.

Also, you're right that making a person kill himself is a very powerful ability. There are two ways I can think of to deal with it; first, you could rule that forcing a mind-control victim to carry out any obviously self-destructive act gives the victim another Willpower roll to break free. Second, killing yourself isn't necessarily that easy; for example, if the victim is a corp security guard and you want him to shoot himself, there's a good chance that the other guards have noticed he's being controlled, and either one of them or a security hacker can access the guard's commlink and turn the safety of his smartgun on. Don't be afraid to play tricks like that if you're finding challenges being bypassed.

[TheOOB]

It would depend on the nature of the mind control used. A spell like influence gives the target a suggestion that they carry out as it it's their own idea. They may later wonder what the hell they where thinking doing what it is that they did, but they likely won't think it's mind control unless a)they are really paranoid about magic, b)the suggestion is really wrong for them(they pass the willpower test), or c)they have reason to believe a spell was used on them(such as them noticing the spell as it was cast, or someone tells them they have an astral signature on them). Spells like control emotions would also be similar, unless they have reason to believe magic was used, they probably won't guess it, and being subtle reduces the likelihood they will be noticed(inspiring glee at a funeral will be more likely to be noticed then if you do it at a baseball game).

On the other hand, a spell like control thoughts, which direct ally controls someones actions, should always be noticed after the fact.