Voodoo, ...becomes interesting Options

[Machiavelli]

Something changed this weekend. One of the things was my view on my chars. Right now i am about to get off from my well known street of creating hermetic mages or mystical adepts. I am going to enter the world of voodoo *insert scary noises*^^ Ok, now i can get serious: I need some help to clarify several questions i neither got ansered by the core book, street magic NOR the digital grimoire.

All these questions underlie the premise, that i will let the spirit inhabit ME:

- the text says, that the spirit has no access to my skills, but has he access to my adept powers and sustained spells?
- the text says, that i am conscious while the spirit inhabits me, and that i can lead him trough the mental link. But WHAT exactly would count as a service INSTEAD of the use of his powers? I am thinking of a run-meeting and i want to be prepared. So i summon e.g. a guardian spirit so that i can enter the appointment, ready for any possible trouble. Can i tell him "go there, stand in this corner, listen what johnson says, leave the room, check out for ambushes an follow the other team members...etc." or would this orders all cost one service?
- what about innate powers of a ghost. If a common fire spirit is summoned, his energy aura e.g. is always "on". If i get possessed by such a spirit, would i automatically start to burn or would it cost an service?
- I think i remember a passage where they mentioned, that summoning spirits can only move in ways their vessel is also capable of. But what about the good old "three-dimensional-movement"? And what about flying for e.g. air spirits? Are these powers lost? And before you ask, JES, i want a free "levitation"-spell.^^
- what about the shamanic-mask that can appear? How does e.g. the voodoo-loa of fight look like. Does this mask always appear?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I played a really fun Necromancer a while back... Voodoo is my next task sometime soon... I Look forward to the answering of these questions myself... For my own personal edification...

Good Luck and Keep the Faith

[Glyph]

I'll try to answer, but for some of these questions, it will only be my best guess, because some of the rules are vague.


- the text says, that the spirit has no access to my skills, but has he access to my adept powers and sustained spells?

Adept powers that are always on might be accessible to the spirit - GM call. Ones that need to be activated, probably not. They don't have their vessel's knowledge, and even a mage trying to walk them through it probably wouldn't be able to help them. Sustained spells would be dropped, although a sustaining focus should continue working.

- the text says, that i am conscious while the spirit inhabits me, and that i can lead him trough the mental link. But WHAT exactly would count as a service INSTEAD of the use of his powers? I am thinking of a run-meeting and i want to be prepared. So i summon e.g. a guardian spirit so that i can enter the appointment, ready for any possible trouble. Can i tell him "go there, stand in this corner, listen what johnson says, leave the room, check out for ambushes an follow the other team members...etc." or would this orders all cost one service?

Pgs 94 - 95 of Street Magic, under Spirit Services, go into this in a lot of detail. Generally, one task takes up one service, although if you have a strained relationship with a spirit, it might be spiteful and break things down into individual services. This is not likely to happen to a Voudoun mage, because they tend to be very respectful of their spirits.

- what about innate powers of a ghost. If a common fire spirit is summoned, his energy aura e.g. is always "on". If i get possessed by such a spirit, would i automatically start to burn or would it cost an service?

It is not always on, but you would not start to burn if the spirit activated that power. It would probably cost a service, but for a service such as "protect me", the spirit might use a number of its powers as part of the same service. Voodoo mages can't summon fire spirits, though.

- I think i remember a passage where they mentioned, that summoning spirits can only move in ways their vessel is also capable of. But what about the good old "three-dimensional-movement"? And what about flying for e.g. air spirits? Are these powers lost? And before you ask, JES, i want a free "levitation"-spell.^^

Being constrained by the vessel's movement means they lose that three-dimensional movement. Including air spirits, who only "fly" using that aforementioned three-dimensional movement. Voodoo mages can't summon air spirits, either.

- what about the shamanic-mask that can appear? How does e.g. the voodoo-loa of fight look like. Does this mask always appear?

They don't have shamanic masks. They are as different from shamans as shamans are from hermetics. However, the possessing spirit will certainly have different mannerisms, body language, etc. than their host normally does.

[Machiavelli]

I just used the fire and the air-spirit powers for a more simple comparison. The elemental aura is also available for water spirits as an optional power, but it would suck if you would have to spend one service for activation for something that should be on already.^^ I would prefer an free-action for activation or something like that.

Regaring the "shamanic-mask" i refer to a section in street magic which says:
"A character who perceives
someone possessed by a loa of Agwe, for example, will detect
distinctive traits of the god of the sea. At the gamemaster’s
discretion, the use of the spirit’s powers may create an effect
like a shamanic mask, adding a +2 dice pool modifier to the
Perception Test."

But due to the fact that i don´t know how this loas are ought to look like, i really don´t get an impression what other people would see if they look at me.

This leads me to another question: how are spirits going to fight? Do i have to fear that the spirit is going to jump right in the middle of the room, ignoring to dodge (Bah, i don´t have to dodge, i am an immortal spirit, mundane weapons cannot hurt me....wait, where is all this blood coming from"?) or can i depent on their intelligence that the can adapt to e.g. the teams tactics? Will they communicate and team-work with the others?

[Glyph]

Sometimes the spirit's nature manifests itself in a way similar to that of a shamanic mask, especially when it is using its powers. Voodoo possession, in my opinion, would be characterized more by different mannerisms than by "special effects". Someone possessed by Damballa would writhe on the ground and hiss like a snake, someone possessed by Erzulie would ooze sensuality, and so on.

How a spirit would fight would depend on the spirit - some would gravitate to it more naturally than others. It wouldn't be quite as bad as you are picturing it - remember that 1) Loa are used to possessing people, and 2) you do get the same immunity to normal weapons that the spirit has.

Teamwork is something likely to give your fellow runners a headache. Loa are capricious spirits that have to be courted and flattered to get them to help you. Getting them to use basic teamwork would be very taxing for the mage. Again, it depends on the loa. One such as Ogoun would be likelier to work with a team or follow a plan, although he would still be difficult to work with.

[PirateChef]

You have to remember, in Voodoo, the loa are more really powerful magic users than actual spirit like beings, ie they are usually represented by a person who dresses or acts a certain way. If one wishes to summon such an individual, it is customary to dress in a manner like the loa to be summoned, as well as to gather the type of things that loa likes. So if you were trying to be possessed by Samedi, you would wear a top hat, smoke a cigar, drink some rum, and invoke him. At which point, if he possessed you, he would proceed to continue doing those things. That's the trade you make with voodoo spirits. You get to use their powers, they get to use your body to engage in and enjoy activities that they cannot as spirits.

[Alexand]

You have to remember, in Voodoo, the loa are more really powerful magic users than actual spirit like beings, ie they are usually represented by a person who dresses or acts a certain way. If one wishes to summon such an individual, it is customary to dress in a manner like the loa to be summoned, as well as to gather the type of things that loa likes. So if you were trying to be possessed by Samedi, you would wear a top hat, smoke a cigar, drink some rum, and invoke him. At which point, if he possessed you, he would proceed to continue doing those things. That's the trade you make with voodoo spirits. You get to use their powers, they get to use your body to engage in and enjoy activities that they cannot as spirits.

++ This. Everything I've seen about Vodoun, implies this kind of relationship with the spirits.

One of the very few drawbacks of Street Magic's simpler system was the loss of a few details, like how the Loa look n act.

There is more than one kind of Voodoo out there in RL, Haitian Vodou, Southern America Voodoo (found primarily in Louisiana/New Orleans), and West African Vodoun. As search on Wikipedia will turn up some basics about each of the 3 types. They are fairly distinct, and when most Americans think of Voodoo they are thinking of the New Orleans kind or sometimes Haitian kind.

In Voodoo, the spirits have more in common with humanity than say the platonic concepts of the hermetic elements. Voodoo spirits desire things of the human world because they are like humans in many ways. In fact 2 of the most prominent Loa were in fact former humans, powerful Voodoo priests who through their own skill and faith ascended to the ranks of the Loa themselves in ancient times.

This means that Loa spirits should quite easily understand human concepts, and you are more directly bargaining with a equal intelligence for the use of it's powers. The Loa guarding your body through a meet with the Johnson for instance should only count as a single service. But through the duration that Loa is going to do all the small things he or she likes in your body the whole time. Smoking, Drinking, Flirting, or in the case of a Guardian Spirit you will probbally summon Lord Ogun, of the Iron blade (maybe hand, I'm a little rusty on the Voodoo pantheon). Most notably he will stand tall and walk erect like a Soldier or lifelong warrior, and he will definitively WANT you to carry a blade. He may be more than willing to use your Gun if you have it, but it's one of his defining characteristics his skill with swords.

[Machiavelli]

Great informations from all of you. Thank you very much. Now, i like the concept even more. Not because it is more powerful, but for it´s difference.


....whoa, forget one question: what about the IP of the ghost? Does he use what the vessel brings along or has he his 2´IP´s for an materialized spirit? Are wired reflexes used by the ghost?

[Machiavelli]

Double post, i know. Uuuups i did it again...*dance*. ^^

Not that i could use it up to now (good guy likes to be prepared) but what changes if you invoke great form spirits? Do you gain beneftis besides the additional powers? How about reach etc?

[HappyDaze]

....whoa, forget one question: what about the IP of the ghost? Does he use what the vessel brings along or has he his 2�IP�s for an materialized spirit? Are wired reflexes used by the ghost?

I've always played it that the Spirit's 2 IPs are used for the vessel. However, Spirits in possession of a body are viable targets for the Increase Reflexes spell, and it can get the maximum effect (4 IPs) from only Force 3 and 3 hits (rather than Force 4 and 4 hits).

[Machiavelli]

Good solution, but is it covered by RAW somewhere? You know my GM is a little bit difficult with that.