HMHVV as a bioweapon Options

[IceKatze]

hi hi

I can imagine there might be some other goals for releasing HMHVV, other then just massive and widespread death. Ghouls tired of living at the fringes of society might be one, a terrorist organization that wants to spread fear and chaos more then death is another. Infection is also a good way to make a government kill it's own people.

[Ravor]

Good point, but there better ways for the groups you've mentioned to achieve their goals than taking the time to weaponize the virus.

[kzt]

So does phosgene or VX or any number of other agents at a fraction of the cost.

Ever look at how much agent you need to deploy for large scale effectiveness? For most chemicals it's measured in tons per km^2.

[The Jake]

Good point, but there better ways for the groups you've mentioned to achieve their goals than taking the time to weaponize the virus.

Not if diplomatic channels have failed...extremists such as the Ghoul Liberation Front might...

- J.

[Method]

I can imagine there might be some other goals for releasing HMHVV, other then just massive and widespread death. Ghouls tired of living at the fringes of society might be one, a terrorist organization that wants to spread fear and chaos more then death is another.

Again I would ask where these fringe groups would get the technology and resources to weaponize it? You're talking about genetically altering a magical virus without un-magic-ing it. That seems to me like it would be a monumental task, even with 2070's level technology.

Ever look at how much agent you need to deploy for large scale effectiveness? For most chemicals it's measured in tons per km^2.

But if you're going to rely on horizontal spread why bother to weaponize it? And I should note there are plenty of mundane biowarfare agents that would also be considerably cheeper.

[IceKatze]

hi hi

As it is currently written in the rules, the virus really doesn't need to be weaponized, it's already on par with Ebola Plus. The difference between diseases and chemical compounds is that everyone that is infected turns into a factory and vector for more of the disease. Someone could just go around wiping their nose and then touching commonly touched objects in public places all day long.

[Method]

I think thats what I just said....

But if you're going to rely on horizontal spread why bother to weaponize it?

Yep. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[IceKatze]

hi hi

What I had originally meant by having it sprayed in the air was that it would make tracing the point of origin more difficult for authorities, not that it would infect everyone from initial application. I guess that was my bad on being bad at explaining myself.

[knasser]

If you want to weaponise HMHVVIII, make it less effective. A ten day transformation period means visible symptoms must appear immediately and there's still a chance of quarantining affected areas. What you want to do is make it a bit less rapid-onset and then it becomes even worse.

[Draco18s]

Also find a strain that doesn't turn the victims into super soldiers.

[Zen Shooter01]

At the risk of repeating others, HMHVVIII is unattractive as a bioweapon for the same reason bioweapons are generally unattractive: it's very hard not to infect your own population, and just possession of such a weapon makes you unpopular diplomatically.

Additionally, turning the enemy into an army of superstrong, supertough cannibals is probably a bad strategic decision. If you're determined to use a bioweapon, why not just use one that kills people?

Besides that, in post information age warfare, killing huge numbers of people is a militarily inefficient and potentially diplomatically disastrous strategy. You attack the enemy's command and control centers, and then his military assets. There's no need to carpet bomb.

[Neraph]

It's really easy: add HMHVV to a Slab splash grenade. Fin.

[Neraph]

Also find a strain that doesn't turn the victims into super soldiers.

The point isn't that your making the enemy into super soldiers; you're making the enemy (ideally) into crazed super soldiers. You're hoping the pain of the transformation will make them feral.

[knasser]

It is the shit. It is a way to say it without actually saying it.

You see America? You see what you've done? With your media sanitization and over-parenting? You've created a generation that avoids the word "shit"! Now you realise, too late, where your path has led you!

[Draco18s]

The point isn't that your making the enemy into super soldiers; you're making the enemy (ideally) into crazed super soldiers. You're hoping the pain of the transformation will make them feral.

Becuase that can't possibly go wrong.

[Neraph]

Becuase that can't possibly go wrong.

I'm not saying it wouldn't go wrong, just that that is the aim of such things.

[InfinityzeN]

You see America? You see what you've done? With your media sanitization and over-parenting? You've created a generation that avoids the word "shit"! Now you realise, too late, where your path has led you!

Actually I'm an old grumpy military nco. I've been trying to cut down on my cursing because, really, I do it way to much. When you can talk for ten minutes and 75% of the words out of your mouth are profanity then it is time to cut back.

[Zen Shooter01]

Neraph:

Creating a horde of hundreds of thousands of mad, feral, uncontrolled ghouls doesn't seem like the solution to a problem to me. Maybe if you're ghoul supremacists, yes...but how many ghoul supremacists have the laboratories to manufacture whole new bioweapons?

[knasser]

Actually I'm an old grumpy military nco. I've been trying to cut down on my cursing because, really, I do it way to much. When you can talk for ten minutes and 75% of the words out of your mouth are profanity then it is time to cut back.

That's good too. I was just aiming for humour. I should be the last person who ever tells anyone how they should talk.

K.

[Neraph]

Neraph:

Creating a horde of hundreds of thousands of mad, feral, uncontrolled ghouls doesn't seem like the solution to a problem to me. Maybe if you're ghoul supremacists, yes...but how many ghoul supremacists have the laboratories to manufacture whole new bioweapons?

Actually, since this thread is about weaponizing HMHVV, I figured that pretty much solved the "problem" (that being actually weaponizing HMHVV). This is not a thread about curing HMHVV, but using it as a weapon.

EDIT: It should be noted that feral ghouls are feral. They cannot attack flying drones efficiently, nor can they easily overrun an Ares Citymaster that has 3 GM Light Autocannons mounted on it. The point of weaponizing HMHVV is to have the ghouls you just made destroy the enemies soldiers, then you move in and mop up the ghouls.

[Zen Shooter01]

Who said anything about curing HMHVVIII?

So the idea is that you infect, for example, 25% of the enemy, making them into ghouls, who then turn on the remaining enemy troops? But as you point out, ghouls aren't very good at fighting aircraft and armored vehicles. But ghouls do have at minimum animal intelligence, and therefore will probably avoid armored vehicles, at the very least because AFVs aren't good to eat. What would probably happen is that many of the ghouls would go underground. Yes, they would become a problem for your enemy, but if you intend to move into your enemy's real estate, the ghouls will become a problem for you, too.

If you're not concerned with the diplomatic or ethical consequences of using biological or chemical weapons, why not just use Ebola Plus (AUG 134), or White Star (ARS 84), and do the damage much more quickly and reliably, without having to develop a whole new weapon?

[Method]

Glad to see I'm not alone here. This is exactly my point.

[Zen Shooter01]

Furthermore, many of the new ghouls who retain Sapience might also retain that nationalist loyalty that put them in the armed forces in the first place. Now, even more angry at you, their enemy, they're signing up for training as insurgents, to be inserted behind your own lines.

[Ravor]

The Jake, sure, but as it has been pointed out, the Fringe Ghouls probably don't have the resources to "weaponize" the virus, but more importantly, they don't have to, all they have to do to randomly attack crowds of people or pour blood into the food/water supply.

And for the people who talk about handling the Ghouls afterwards, well that is why you always follow up with FAB, as dual natured beings Ghouls have no defense whatsoever and will be dead soon enough.

[Doc Byte]

So the idea is that you infect, for example, 25% of the enemy, making them into ghouls, who then turn on the remaining enemy troops?

And when they hit 100% the will have a look at your own people and think: Tasty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)