Glasses vs. Goggles, I can't see a reason for goggles Options

[SaintHax]

I'm confused, according to my group, there is no game difference in glasses and goggles; yet glasses are cheaper and more normal looking. Why would anyone spend more for goggles then?

[Prime Mover]

With new capacity rules in SR4A.
Glasses 1-4
Goggles 1-6

So can get more slots in Goggles.

[otakusensei]

Because goggles are sweet?

In game reason though, goggles stay on your head better than glasses.

If you want to stay casual use contacts for your basic vision items like flare comp and image enhancement, then a pair of goggles for thermal and vision mag. Glasses have a higher capacity, but you'd have to think they would stand out in 2070 with all the tech and medical science available for eye correction. I'm sure they are still worn by many people, but at that point I'm guessing it's almost more of a fashion statement than a necessity.

Hope that helps. I'm going to split now though, I don't want to be around when this becomes another datajack thread.

[CanRay]

Goggles protect you better ("THE GOGGLES, THEY DO NOTHING!"), stay on your head better, and you look normal when you're tearing down the highway on your Harley-Davidson Shadowrunner! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Kerenshara]

If you want to stay casual use contacts for your basic vision items like flare comp and image enhancement, then a pair of goggles for thermal and vision mag. Glasses have a higher capacity, but you'd have to think they would stand out in 2070 with all the tech and medical science available for eye correction. I'm sure they are still worn by many people, but at that point I'm guessing it's almost more of a fashion statement than a necessity.

One word: AR. Spelled out, it's still just two: Augmented Reality.

Glasses are the most common and comfortable way for somebody lacking cyberware (read: most of the population of the 6^th World) to access AR. Glasses are seldom, if ever, used by all but the poorest people for vision correction any more, but that Display-link is priceless. And plenty of people still wear sunglasses, even if just to be cool... or if paranoid, make sure their retinal paterns stay off somebody's database.

[Zaranthan]

As someone who wears glasses in the "real" meat world, a good set of goggles will fit OVER a pair of glasses. Load up the mirrored shades with stuff that will work on a secondhand image like smartlink and flare compensation, and leave the thermo and magnification on top where they need to be.

[Kerenshara]

As someone who wears glasses in the "real" meat world, a good set of goggles will fit OVER a pair of glasses. Load up the mirrored shades with stuff that will work on a secondhand image like smartlink and flare compensation, and leave the thermo and magnification on top where they need to be.

OK, that's munchy as drek (which is AOK with me in this case), but IRL when you start layering vision systems, it can get a little distorted. Do you really NEED more that six (6) total vision enhancements?

1) Image-link
2) Smartlink
3) Image Enhancement
4) Flare Compensation
5) Low-light
6) Thermal

If you have/need other sensors, just feed them to the Image-link.

[TBRMInsanity]

I fail to see how you can put magnification in glasses without it looking stupid.

[Kerenshara]

I fail to see how you can put magnification in glasses without it looking stupid.

Even 1st Ed offered digital image mag along side optical. Optical was clearer and longer ranged IIRC, but digital was compact.

[CodeBreaker]

I fail to see how you can put magnification in glasses without it looking stupid.

Side Micro-Cam with electronic enhancement that links to a dedicated Image Link? Not that difficult to do with todays tech (Expensive, but possible) and with 2070 improvements it is not likely a problem.

And on most people not having Cyber, is it not hinted that Cybereyes are one of those things that quite a fair percentage of the population has? It isn't *that* expensive, and the only legal restriction is that you have to be over 18. Might be something your parents buy you for your 18th.

[SaintHax]

I fail to see how you can put magnification in glasses without it looking stupid.

Same technique as current day bifocals.

Although, I still strongly disagree w/ bringing real world logic into a game for some elements, when we readily accept the fact that some characters can summon spirits and shoot fire from their hands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Zaranthan]

OK, that's munchy as drek (which is AOK with me in this case), but IRL when you start layering vision systems, it can get a little distorted. Do you really NEED more that six (6) total vision enhancements?

1) Image-link
2) Smartlink
3) Image Enhancement
4) Flare Compensation
5) Low-light
6) Thermal

If you have/need other sensors, just feed them to the Image-link.

Yeah, well, you had already covered the reasonable applications, so I just figured I'd paint an amusing mental image for the folks reading along. Just be glad I didn't put contacts under the shades...on cybereyes.

[otakusensei]

Layering vision enhancing tech is always a good idea, and I see the point about glasses being the common option. But that's not neccessarily true for shadowrunners on the job. For my characters I always go the contact route for essential vision tech, goggles for supplemental and a drone with a full sensor suite feeding an AR display for total situational awareness.

If I'm feeling really squirrely I use a sim module/simrig combo. Simrig sends a feed of my sensorium to my commlink. Commlink gets a feed from the various sensors on drones, teammates and my person; overlays that on the live feed and pumps it back to my brain via sim module. Controls and AR are all handled via direct neural interface.

Sure it's AR with all the danger of VR (and I'm one hack away from dead), but it's also the absolute best way to allow your brain to interpret all that data. If I get my way as the group's hacker, everyone gets a simrig and it's all piped back to me and run through a Tacsoft. Team gets bonuses and I get an incredibly detailed record of everything that happened on every run.

Course your mileage may vary. Checking around it looks like our "face" member of the team has a nice pair of glasses while the orc pistol adapt prefers goggles. And his do lots of things.

[Malachi]

Same technique as current day bifocals.

Although, I still strongly disagree w/ bringing real world logic into a game for some elements, when we readily accept the fact that some characters can summon spirits and shoot fire from their hands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Come on SaintHax, this is DS. It's where people accept Dragons, Magic, and Cybeware, but complain that the rules for Decompression Sickness are too unrealistic.

[Kerenshara]

Side Micro-Cam with electronic enhancement that links to a dedicated Image Link? Not that difficult to do with todays tech (Expensive, but possible) and with 2070 improvements it is not likely a problem.

And on most people not having Cyber, is it not hinted that Cybereyes are one of those things that quite a fair percentage of the population has? It isn't *that* expensive, and the only legal restriction is that you have to be over 18. Might be something your parents buy you for your 18th.

It also talks about how bioware is much more popular in the current decade. And the equivalent of Lasik can be done with nanites, so why go for chrome? I would say a DATAJACK is more ubiquitous than eyes, but I agree that eyes are probably a good second place cantidate...

[Kerenshara]

Yeah, well, you had already covered the reasonable applications, so I just figured I'd paint an amusing mental image for the folks reading along. Just be glad I didn't put contacts under the shades...on cybereyes.

*smacks Zaranthan with a large wet tuna*

No.

*grin*

[Cadmus]

::gets out the gas can and matches as he giggles::


And now, explain...Ultra sound on contact lens!

:edit: bah after looking at my pdf I does not list the cap number for ultra sound, any one know it hehe,

[Doc Byte]

As AR works perfectly well with trodes, glasses seem to be a little bit outdated. All you need are some nice buttons with built in sensors and a sim module. No need for glasses at all. And you could pin some sensors onto your back, too. Works with cams and mikes.

[Aaron]

Style over substance, baby.

[CodeBreaker]

Style over substance, baby.

Agreed. As a Dwarf how can I look like a walking Steampunk Vehicle without my Goggles!?

[hobgoblin]

or for that matter, black pajamas, gas mask and goggles style HTR (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[CanRay]

Toxic green mohawk, ripped wifebeater shirt, tattered synthdenim pants, heavy boots with pink laces, armoured leather duster with patches and spraypainted logo on the back, oxy-acetylene torch, and goggles with flare compensation, and a Smile!

And you guys say I don't get the Punk mentality. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Doc Byte]

Style over substance, baby.

I see buttons. Lots of buttons. And style. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Kerenshara]

Layering vision enhancing tech is always a good idea, and I see the point about glasses being the common option. But that's not neccessarily true for shadowrunners on the job. For my characters I always go the contact route for essential vision tech, goggles for supplemental and a drone with a full sensor suite feeding an AR display for total situational awareness.

If I'm feeling really squirrely I use a sim module/simrig combo. Simrig sends a feed of my sensorium to my commlink. Commlink gets a feed from the various sensors on drones, teammates and my person; overlays that on the live feed and pumps it back to my brain via sim module. Controls and AR are all handled via direct neural interface.

Sure it's AR with all the danger of VR (and I'm one hack away from dead), but it's also the absolute best way to allow your brain to interpret all that data. If I get my way as the group's hacker, everyone gets a simrig and it's all piped back to me and run through a Tacsoft. Team gets bonuses and I get an incredibly detailed record of everything that happened on every run.

Course your mileage may vary. Checking around it looks like our "face" member of the team has a nice pair of glasses while the orc pistol adapt prefers goggles. And his do lots of things.

Ok, that's not too far off for what I do, but you're taking steps you don't need to.

First of all, a SimRig INCLUDES a SimModule... the better type, actually (more like a desktop player for hi-fidelity playback) because it's hard wired into the whole body's perceptive centers.

Second, if you're just going for the ultimiate in display-link, you can mod your internal comlink (it has 4 "slots") with a SimModule.

Third, there's no danger of VR with using a SimModle that way, unless you actually switch it to Hot Mode, just like when decking. There is no REQUIREMENT to override the body's natural senses, except that's the normal play-back mode.

You're exactly right about being able to feed live SimRig data through a TacNet. It's especially wicked when people have all those nifty sense enhancements, or if some joker got a penetrating milimeter wave radar implanted.

What some people haven't considered is the possible "user experience" from pulling that particular stunt:

You can use your implanted comlink as the central point of coordination. It can display a transparent HUD imagery overlay at the periphery of your "vision" but it is always in perfect "focus". The TacNet data for location is a 3D moving map in the top corner. Your NanoBiomonitor is feeding detailed information from your body's vitals to the comlink and it's displayed in the opposite corner as a diagram of your body with marks for levels of fatigue and damage. Tie in sensors in smart body armor, and you can get an idea how that's holding up. Your smartgun reports in as its own window with ammunition levels and the proverbial targeting carrat driven by a LCOS (Lead Computing Optical Sight). The 'link runs a continual visual recognition program on faces and objects you focus on, popping up warnings and details as you changed visual targets. Your team members status' are listed in a column to one side. All floating virtually in front of you. Plus, you can pop up anything else you want or need, and set up "quick buttons" you can "touch" with a thought, programmed with macros of commands.

If this is sounding like a video game you play, there's a reason. The people who design the interfaces of those games have spent decades now tweaking the best possible arrangements to maximize information availability and situational awareness while minimizing information overload. You're a Shadowrunner whose runs, in their own head, look like a video game. Heck, you could have the mission objectives and maps or whatever recon' data you've managed to assemble accessible, too. "Waypoint 1 reached, objective, scout Waypoint 1, successful" because your SimRig is recording EVERYTHING you sense for Johnson... if you want.

Anyhow, that's my little exposition on the potential "soft" fun you can have with the wicked wireless toys and chrome in the 2070s.

[Kerenshara]

As AR works perfectly well with trodes, glasses seem to be a little bit outdated. All you need are some nice buttons with built in sensors and a sim module. No need for glasses at all. And you could pin some sensors onto your back, too. Works with cams and mikes.

'Trodes are not just a pair of wires, sadly. It's a whole network of wires. As somebody else said: style over substance. And it's not subtle at all.

Personally, I favor the embedded comlink with Skinlink and all my devices skinlinked as well, using a SimModule modded into the implanted comlink. All taken care of, right there.