Glasses vs. Goggles, I can't see a reason for goggles Options

[Ravor]

TBRMInsanity then you must have never played with a DM who doesn't treat corp sec designers as a bunch of drunk monkeys throwing their own poop at a wall. It is fragging easy to virtually shut down a Mage that hasn't at the very least gotten cybereyes. "Pure" Mages are thankfully a thing of the past.

[hazemyth]

I always pictured sr4 trodes as looking like those back-of-the-head earmuffs.

But less fuzzy.

[Ravor]

Umm, aren't you in the wrong thread? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

[Draco18s]

3) Image Enhancement

If I'm not mistaken, Image Enhancement takes up more than one slot. A rating 3, I believe, takes 3 slots.

[DuctShuiTengu]

Now, if you take the time pre-run to hack into all the guards 'links and add backdoors, do the same to all the vehicles and such then sure you might be able to be useful in combat. But most of the time it is a good bit easier to just shoot the frakker in the face and be done with it. Shadowrun Hacking is not really all that useful when the bullets are flying (At least not without a fair bit of investment in time. If you find yourself in a stalemate and you have an IP or two to spare, or if the Face can keep the guards busy for a few then yes you can be useful.)

I'm going to disagree on a minor point here:

Hacking hard targets in combat isn't that useful (shooting the guard is usually easier and more effective than hacking them, and your attempts to shoot them will generally compliment your teammates attempts to shoot them better than being halfway through their firewall when they drop). And most security guards and other opponents will be reasonably hard. Hacking or spoofing easy targets, on the other hand, can easily be done in combat - finding ways to use this can be tricky, but is doable. On a recent run, the group's technomancer managed to kill the lights and start blaring heavy metal over the intercom while we were in the middle of a fire-fight. Complete darkness and further penalties to try to locate people based on sound, combined with a rather one-sided distribution on who had thermographic vision gave us a huge edge in what had previously been looking like a challenging fight.

[HappyDaze]

TBRMInsanity then you must have never played with a DM who doesn't treat corp sec designers as a bunch of drunk monkeys throwing their own poop at a wall. It is fragging easy to virtually shut down a Mage that hasn't at the very least gotten cybereyes. "Pure" Mages are thankfully a thing of the past.

Really? Is it generally more than just a few dice of penalties? Do tell us this secret because whatever it is, it should also shut down most of those nasty spirits that lack vision enhancements.

[Zaranthan]

As a matter of fact, vision penalties are one of the most effective ways to counter a powerful spirit without using magic. Beast spirits have low-light, and Man have low-light and thermo, but the rest of them are screwed.

[CanRay]

*Turns off the lights*

Doesn't appear to be too effective to Fire Spirits, which are their own light source...

[Zaranthan]

I was thinking more along the lines of a thermal smoke grenade.

[kanislatrans]

My 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

In RL I wear glasses. They do fine as long as you aren't doing anything to strenuous. Even with a sport strap they will come off if you are hanging upside down or catch them on something. Im an Appliance repair tech and in my job, I do that alot.

I got a pair of prescription goggles for when I am climbing around inside dishwashers and refrigerators. they stay put and also offer eye protection from dust,rust and debris. (which is why contacts are completely out of the question.)

speaking of contacts, I have never really liked them in shadowrun, especialy in combat situations.

I always pictured this blonde Elf slitch holding her arms out in the middle of a fire fight and screaming"Nobody move!!! I dropped my contact!!!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

I outfit all of my characters with goggles,even the ones with cyber eyes.
A pair of Chiba Nightshark Combat Goggles™ are the perfect accessory to any outfit . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0...mp;s=automotive

[DV8]

Because goggles are sweet?

Let me do some thread-hijacking for a second, but this is exactly the right response to the TS' original question. Much (if not all) of the cyberpunk genre is about style and form over function is an important concept. So it's not unusual that games like Shadowrun will give you many different options that essentially do the same thing. Like Securetech vs Armored clothing. It does the same thing, it just has a different style and flavour. Like not everything needs a rule to be explained and can be left to individual interpretation or design. Goggles over shades is essentially the same thing. Not everything has to have pros and cons that aid you on paper.

[Zaranthan]

Is it bad that I just noticed the pun in the subtitle?

[DV8]

Was that even intentional? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ravor]

HappyDaze, I've already covered the actual numbers themselves in an oldler thread but basically a corp keeps piling on the vision mods, uses an effect similiar to flashpacks, ect to hose the Mage's dicepool as much as possible. Then they do the same thing using the Astral Vision Mods in order to keep the Mage from just opening his third eye and targeting spells that way.

Yeah, a Mage would have to be foolish not have cybereyes.

[HappyDaze]

Yeah, a Mage would have to be foolish not have cybereyes.

A basic set of glasses or contacts with Flare Compensation would do fine since FC is not a type of vision - it's a brief polarization effect that then returns to transparent (optical), and if you're metahuman you've got either L-L or Thermo as a default. You don't really need any more unless you're going into stupidly over-the-top crap (GM dickery). Also, normal vision mods won't mean a thing if you're using astral perception anyway - and getting astral visibility mods up high enough to really interfere takes some work.

[Ravor]

I never cease to be amused by cries of "it's not fair" whenever a DM doesn't pretend that the corps are run by a bunch of monkeys throwing poop against a wall. And it really isn't all that hard to jack up the Astral Mods either.

[Falconer]

Actually low-light is a 5 point positive quality in runner's companion now. So you don't need to spend essence and cybereyes to get it... granted the cybereyes are probably cheaper in money... but more expensive in magic!


So it's quite viable for the mage to not get cybereyes on that score, and just wear a nice pair of contacts w/ flare comp. And steampunk style telescoping goggles w/ other goodies.


As far as why goggles... gas grenades and other irritants! (you threw tear gas at the guy wearing goggles... what you were expecting his eyes to tear up so he couldn't shoot back...)

[Ravor]

If I accepted the premise that all you needed was Low Light and Flare Comp you'd have a point, however as it stands cybereyes are still king.

[Cadmus]

given the 5 point quality, I think with the mods a mage could do better with the cyber eyes, I mean, you can put alot of usful stuff into 1 point of essence, and since you spent essence on the eyes you can cast spells on people you see with thermo ect (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Shinobi Killfist]

I never cease to be amused by cries of "it's not fair" whenever a DM doesn't pretend that the corps are run by a bunch of monkeys throwing poop against a wall. And it really isn't all that hard to jack up the Astral Mods either.

The reason it is GM dickery is because you decide when the corp is magically smart and when they aren't. If the corp is smart enough to vision mod any non cyber eye mage to death the corp is smart enough to pull a bunch of other crap that would put shadowrunners out of business. So why do the smarts always seem to end after they screw just the non cyber mage over, or some other petty bug up his GM ass nit pick.

[Shinobi Killfist]

[b]EDIT:[b] Regarding what a magician can get away with - I do as follows: If it's purely optical, there's no problem. If it's purely digital, you can't. And if it's a digital overlay on top of an optical view, e.g. thermographic, running Smart Link system or whatever, then you get vision penalties.

Has there ever been a list of what can be done optically in SR4 tech?

[Kerenshara]

Has there ever been a list of what can be done optically in SR4 tech?

SR4? No. Not speciffically.

[Stahlseele]

Everything with the exception of Ultra Sound and Radar can be used with optics.
SR3 even had the distinction of magnification electronically and optically.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Everything with the exception of Ultra Sound and Radar can be used with optics.
SR3 even had the distinction of magnification electronically and optically.

I can't find a rule that says otherwise, but optical thermo seems weird to me. I really wish they had a chart or something that listed which could be which.

[Shinobi Killfist]

SR4? No. Not speciffically.

Thanks, I was wandering if I had missed something.