Transitioning to a Hacker Role..., My sammy gets depth! Options

[Octopiii]

I've been thinking about adding hacking/rigging capabilities to my Street Samurai, both to fill out a need and to give him something to do other than killing people. Now, I have never played a Matrix character before, and while I think I have a good grasp of the matrix rules, there's always something to be said about actual application of said rules. For the immediate future, all I'm likely to do is buy a Fly-Spy to give the team some extra scouting ability. For long term planning, I am thinking about getting a(n) Agent(s) to handle all my common use programs and just focusing on illegal applications, allowing me to ignore the Data Search and Computer skills and having him focus on Hacking and (maaaybe) Cybercombat. I will likely remain in AR for my hacking/rigging purposes, unless I am planning to do a slow probe of a target.

Here's my character, currently:

[ Spoiler ]

Hamburger!
Male Human
B: 5
A: 5 (7)
R: 4 (8 )
S: 3
C: 3
I: 4
L: 2
W: 3
E: 7
Essence: 1

Skills:
Automatics 5
Unarmed 4
Pistols 2 (Semi-Autos 4)
Heavy Weapons 2 (Grenade Launchers 4)
Perception 4 (Hearing 6)
Intimidation 4
Diving 1
Escape Artist 1
First Aid 4 (Combat Wounds 6)
Stealth Group 3
Influence Group 3
Athletics Group 1
Outdoors Group 1

Qualities:
High Pain Tolerance 2
School of Hard Knocks
SINner Criminal
Combat Paralysis
Addiction, Mild: No Fear

Cyber:
OxSys Cybergil
2 Cyberhands
Orientations System
Snake Fingers
Radar Sensors 4
Biomonitor
Autoinjector
Wired Reflexes 2(a)
Reaction Enhancers
Tooth Storage Compartment
Attention CoProcessor 3

Bio:
Platelet Factories
Symbiotes 2
Muscle Toner 2
Cosmetic Modification, Moderate

Now, I will have ~20 karma and if we actually succeed on our run ~40k once we get back from B.F.E. to the sprawl to play with. What skills should I get? I should probably pimp my commlink out, right? (I think it is currently at 4 in every stat, and I have all common use programs at 4). Is a rating 6 agent worth the cost to upgrade everything, or should I be happy with rating 3/4? I think I pretty much have spy-type rigging covered with my current skills, except for combat which I will honestly be more effective doing in person and vehicle driving skills which is a niche that is currently filled anyway.

[Jaid]

just thought i'd mention, you need computer. a lot. it's your matrix perception skill.

as far as upgrading your agent, i would say yes. relatively speaking, it's not that expensive, especially if you buy a cracked agent. and then, not only can you use it for computer stuff, but for hacking tasks as well.

that said, it's really hard to switch to a full-on hacker after the fact. you really do need quite a few skills... have you considered investing in skillwires?

[PirateChef]

just thought i'd mention, you need computer. a lot. it's your matrix perception skill.

as far as upgrading your agent, i would say yes. relatively speaking, it's not that expensive, especially if you buy a cracked agent. and then, not only can you use it for computer stuff, but for hacking tasks as well.

that said, it's really hard to switch to a full-on hacker after the fact. you really do need quite a few skills... have you considered investing in skillwires?

Do skillwires help with hacking? If they do....how?

[CodeBreaker]

Do skillwires help with hacking? If they do....how?

They would let him buy Computer/Hacking/Cybercombat with Nuyen instead of Karma.

(P.S, Combat Paralysis on a Combat Monkey?)

[Jaid]

Do skillwires help with hacking? If they do....how?

err.... they let you get the required skills using money instead of karma, allowing you to purchase usable skill levels in hacking in a time measured in minutes or maybe hours instead of weeks and months?

consider, to be a full-blown hacker, you're going to want reasonable skill levels in hacking, cybercombat, and computer at the bare minimum. many would add electronic warfare and data search (and some include hardware in the role), although at least for data search the OP indicated a plan to use an agent (which is likely to be at least as good if not better should he upgrade it).

now consider that as a full-blown hacker, people are going to expect a skill level at least around 3. probably more. that's 14 karma per skill. and you need 3 skills, if not more.

throw in the fact that he doesn't have any of the classic hacker mods (btw, if you can afford it you should get those too) and he's going to be even further behind a regular hacker. his ~20 karma is enough to get 2 of those skills to 2, and 1 to 1. he also won't be using hotsim, so there's another +2 gone. he needs every bonus he can get... being able to quickly pick up 3 skillsofts at rating 4 to start off is going to be a big difference. and it's not like the skillwires are garbage outside of their usefulness for hacking either.

[PirateChef]

err.... they let you get the required skills using money instead of karma, allowing you to purchase usable skill levels in hacking in a time measured in minutes or maybe hours instead of weeks and months?

consider, to be a full-blown hacker, you're going to want reasonable skill levels in hacking, cybercombat, and computer at the bare minimum. many would add electronic warfare and data search (and some include hardware in the role), although at least for data search the OP indicated a plan to use an agent (which is likely to be at least as good if not better should he upgrade it).

now consider that as a full-blown hacker, people are going to expect a skill level at least around 3. probably more. that's 14 karma per skill. and you need 3 skills, if not more.

throw in the fact that he doesn't have any of the classic hacker mods (btw, if you can afford it you should get those too) and he's going to be even further behind a regular hacker. his ~20 karma is enough to get 2 of those skills to 2, and 1 to 1. he also won't be using hotsim, so there's another +2 gone. he needs every bonus he can get... being able to quickly pick up 3 skillsofts at rating 4 to start off is going to be a big difference. and it's not like the skillwires are garbage outside of their usefulness for hacking either.

Heh, everyone misinterpreted...

How do skillwires, which help with physical activities (because they are wires that are attached to your muscles), help you in a VR situation?

[Octopiii]

I don't think Skillwires are the way to go; 3 skills at rating 4 is 120k(!!!!) - it's not going to happen. I can get a rating 6 agent for 15k, who will roll rating + program for its rolls. I can take my agent with me, and load it with 6 programs, including analyze - it can alert me if there is anything going on in the matrix. In fact, the more that I think about it the more I believe I can skip buying skills and just go with an agent. Consider: A rating 6 agent with a rating 6 exploit, stealth, edit, analyze programs running - that's almost a top flight hacker right there. I command it to probe a target to find an exploit. It does so, then enters - a tough node will still only be rolling 12 dice (firewall + analyze) once against a rating 6 threshold to detect it. Once inside, it adds me to the list of allowed users, and then I go in and do my thing (or go in, and command my agent to do its thing).

Am I right, or am I missing something here?

As to combat paralysis: fits the back story, and it's not nearly as bad as you think. I'm still usually the first person to act in the first combat turn (initative 12 + 2 hits on average = 14. Turn 2: initaive 12 + 4 hits on average = 16 - not a big loss).

[BlackJaw]

If you are playing with Unwired rules, you can buy Cracked Skillsofts instead of full priced ones. It's like getting them for 90% off market price... but it involves a bit of datasearching to find them. Still, those 3 skills become 12k instead of 120k. (of course you will need to patch them monthly, which is a little pricey) If you're going for flexibility, skillwires would also let you pick up odd weapons and skills when needed. Also, there is a Program option in Unwired for Activesofts that lets you apply edge to the rolls. That can be very valuable, and saves you from having to invest essence in a Skillwire exper cyberware.

If you want to simply pickup some hacking functions but not too much, consider getting a "pocket hacker." Basicaly a commlink running high end software and using an agent to do the hacking for you. Not nearly as good as a real hacker or technomancer, but considering your lack of skills and gear for hacking, it's likely easier. Make sure to buy the hacking software without Registration... I'd recomend the Open Source stuff. It's often capped at level 4, but it's 50% off full price and doesn't need to be patched (thanks to the Unwired errata.) If you need higher level stuff, get cracked and make sure to patch it every month. It's going to add to your monthly living costs sure, but it will work. Having registered software when hacking makes it easy to track you down later, and that's a big problem.

Basicaly you get a response 6 commlink, a rating 6 agent, and as much rating 6 (ergonomic) software as you can get your hands on. I'd also recomend getting the commlink optimized for the Exploit program (giving it a +1, rules in Unwired). If you want it to do some cybercombat, get those programs with Targeting as well as the ergo option. Then when it comes time to hacking, you load up the agent with any 12 programs (most often: stealth, edit, exploit, anaylize, disarm, spoof, attack, armor +2 more of your choice) and order it to do your hacking for you. I highly recommend getting the Agent the Adaptability Autosoft (max rank is 4) as well... for times when it needs to be a bit more creative then just following your instructions.
Other useful add-ons would include a Fetch Module, which is a separate little dedicated matrix search agent.

[PirateChef]

I don't think Skillwires are the way to go; 3 skills at rating 4 is 120k(!!!!) - it's not going to happen. I can get a rating 6 agent for 15k, who will roll rating + program for its rolls. I can take my agent with me, and load it with 6 programs, including analyze - it can alert me if there is anything going on in the matrix. In fact, the more that I think about it the more I believe I can skip buying skills and just go with an agent. Consider: A rating 6 agent with a rating 6 exploit, stealth, edit, analyze programs running - that's almost a top flight hacker right there. I command it to probe a target to find an exploit. It does so, then enters - a tough node will still only be rolling 12 dice (firewall + analyze) once against a rating 6 threshold to detect it. Once inside, it adds me to the list of allowed users, and then I go in and do my thing (or go in, and command my agent to do its thing).

Am I right, or am I missing something here?

This works great, until 1 bad die roll or something and your agent becomes fairly useless to you. Not too god at reacting to things out of the plan, those agents...

[HappyDaze]

If you can convince the group that your hacking skills will be a boon to all of them - and if they believe you're not becomine more of a timebomb - you might be able to get a bigger share of nuyen. It's that, along with pawning off 160 pairs of shoes and 12 cases of dolls, that might make it possible...

[Orcus Blackweath...]

The agent has some serious limits in what it can do, and you are paying a bunch for it at the end of the day. Skill wires are also expensive one way or the other. The idea that you are over night going to replace a high end hacker is asking a bit much of yourself (unless of course your chummers will pay you two shares of course).

I would suggest that you start slow, cybercombat is not something you are going to be any good at for a while. Get your agent, and have him do some of the heavy lifting, and begin the process of building the hacking and computer skills first. After a while, you slowly put more karma into the skills, and more cash into the hardware.

[Jaid]

Heh, everyone misinterpreted...

How do skillwires, which help with physical activities (because they are wires that are attached to your muscles), help you in a VR situation?

same way they help a cyborg pilot a vehicle. the matrix is all in your head anyways, why *wouldn't* you be able to use skillsofts? if anything, the question that would really make sense is "do you really even need skillwires to use skillsofts in the matrix?"* if the skillsoft alone gives my brain the knowledge and the wires simulate muscle memory, why do i need the wires for skills that don't involve wires? shouldn't these skills (in the matrix) be available as knowsofts pretty much?

*(the answer is yes, and the reason is game balance, by the way)

[The Jake]

Upgrade your Wired (2) to MBW (2).
Get the Skillwires Plus upgrade.
Get pirated programs and get an agent to auto-update those programs. That will get you by for now.

Save your karma and you should be able to slowly upgrade your hacking skills - I'd be buying the Cracking skill group and Computer skill alone if you really want to skimp on points, although building up Cracking and Electronics is probably a worthwhile long term investment.

- J.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Skip on Cybercombat - it's only used for attacking. You'll need Hacking, Computer and Data Search first, then perhaps Electronic Warfare and Software.

And forget the Skillwire Expert system, go for DIMAP.

[Orcus Blackweath...]

Now, I will have ~20 karma and if we actually succeed on our run ~40k once we get back from B.F.E. to the sprawl to play with. What skills should I get? I should probably pimp my commlink out, right? (I think it is currently at 4 in every stat, and I have all common use programs at 4). Is a rating 6 agent worth the cost to upgrade everything, or should I be happy with rating 3/4? I think I pretty much have spy-type rigging covered with my current skills, except for combat which I will honestly be more effective doing in person and vehicle driving skills which is a niche that is currently filled anyway.

You guys seemed to miss the fact that he is trying to do this on a shoestring. He has 40k nuyen and 20 karma. He is not getting advanced cyberware, skill wires are so expensive now that he absolutely has to use hacked skill softs if he goes that way.

My thought is that he should start slow. He gets the hacking skill, computer skill, and an EW skill soft. If he has money left he gets the best agent he can find and afford. Not sure what he can afford for hacked programs, no books handy at the moment. He should specialize in breaking into soda machines, opening doors, and spoofing cameras for now. His group can continue hiring a real hacker until he gets to whatever he considers competent.

[PirateChef]

You guys seemed to miss the fact that he is trying to do this on a shoestring. He has 40k nuyen and 20 karma. He is not getting advanced cyberware, skill wires are so expensive now that he absolutely has to use hacked skill softs if he goes that way.

My thought is that he should start slow. He gets the hacking skill, computer skill, and an EW skill soft. If he has money left he gets the best agent he can find and afford. Not sure what he can afford for hacked programs, no books handy at the moment. He should specialize in breaking into soda machines, opening doors, and spoofing cameras for now. His group can continue hiring a real hacker until he gets to whatever he considers competent.

Actually, you can go old school for a good commlink with good programs, especially if youa re a decent street sam:

Step 1: Find a Hacker
Step 2: Kill him, take his gear
Step 3: ?
Step 4: Profit

[Orcus Blackweath...]

Not sure why it works that way, but for whatever reason, when I try to profit from robbing someone it fails to work well.

Orcus: I see the geeky looking hacker, I am going to steal his comm.
GM: Ok, you don't see a comm.
Orcus: Ok I knock him out and search him
GM: Nope no comm, it might be internal, wanna see if you can find his internal comm?
...
some time later
...
GM: Eww what a mess, nope didn't find anything
Orcus: Hmmm maybe he was a Technomancer, hey that guy over there looks geeky enough to be a hacker...

[Octopiii]

Thanks for the replies.

Another Q: In the Matrix Actions sections, under Control Device, it says I use Command + Relevant Skill (such as Longarms) to fire a drone mounted weapon. However, in the Common Rigger Tests table, it says that firing a drone mounted weapon is Command + Gunnery. So which is it? If I had a Smart Firing Platform and wanted to fire a weapon from it with the Command program, what skill would I use? What skill would I use if I was jumped in?

[Summerstorm]

Gunnery for both. It is the question of: How is it mounted? ALL weapons which are integrated on the drone or mounted in turrets are fired with gunnery. Only weapons which are HELD by a drone with arms can be used with the appropriate skill.

So: Gunnery for ALL weapons.

EXCEPT: you have a drone which is HANDLING the weapon like a (meta)human. With arms.

[Orcus Blackweath...]

Gunnery for both. It is the question of: How is it mounted? ALL weapons which are integrated on the drone or mounted in turrets are fired with gunnery. Only weapons which are HELD by a drone with arms can be used with the appropriate skill.

So: Gunnery for ALL weapons.

EXCEPT: you have a drone which is HANDLING the weapon like a (meta)human. With arms.

Ummmm Biodrones anyone?

[Aaron]

The reason my hacker never beat anyone to death with their own cyberarms was because his Unarmed Combat was nil. Your character doesn't seem to have that problem.

[The Jake]

Actually, you can go old school for a good commlink with good programs, especially if youa re a decent street sam:

Step 1: Find a Hacker
Step 2: Kill him, take his gear
Step 3: ?
Step 4: Profit

Yeah I don't have a problem with this either.

Look, I get that he's trying to do this on a shoestring, but somethings like MBW are so goddamn good for anyone - so much so that in this characters case, they cannot be overstated.

If he got MBW, I could recommend getting just Hacking, EW and Computer. But he will need Cybercombat sooner or later.

- J.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

But he will need Cybercombat sooner or later.

Why? That's pretty much the only thing mooks are good for... attacking.

[The Jake]

Why? That's pretty much the only thing mooks are good for... attacking.

You presume he will always have his mooks available.

- J.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Sure I do, because if he doesn't, he won't have the rest of his software available, either. And that means no hacking at all.

Honestly, Cybercombat is the worst option to go with, anyway.