Armor Penetration Vs Mystic Armor, And other doubts on Combat Spellcasting. Options

[Garou]

I noticed that Mystic Armor (adept power) is added to the usual armor ratings, both balistic and impact.

But if the Adept only has Mystic Armor, AP is still subtracted? I mean, it is a telekinetic or physical barrier, tough skin or what?

Second doubt: The extra Ips a Mage gain when he uses Increased Reflexes can be used to cast OTHER spells? Because, as mage can already cast mutiple spells in turn by splitting his dice pool, isn´t that open to a lot of unbalacing?

It´s a simple question i know, but i noticed a mage can use a Metamagic enhancement and cast a self sustaining Increased Reflexes Spell and get 4 Ips for the rest of his life. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Malachi]

Yes, AP modifies Mystic Armor. Mystic Armor is a power that mimics Physical armor in every way, except that it doesn't count towards armor encumbrance.

Yes, a Magician's extra IP's can be used to cast more spells. No this is not unbalancing. Casting multiple spells with an action requires splitting the die pool (IIRC). Increase Reflexes spells still need to be Sustained and thus they can be Dispelled. If you want a Mage to go that route it's probably better to just get a Synaptic Accelerator implanted. For 1 Magic/Essence you can get 3 IP's that can't be dispelled or easily detected from Astral Space.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Yes, AP modifies Mystic Armor. Mystic Armor is a power that mimics Physical armor in every way, except that it doesn't count towards armor encumbrance.

Yes, a Magician's extra IP's can be used to cast more spells. No this is not unbalancing. Casting multiple spells with an action requires splitting the die pool (IIRC). Increase Reflexes spells still need to be Sustained and thus they can be Dispelled. If you want a Mage to go that route it's probably better to just get a Synaptic Accelerator implanted. For 1 Magic/Essence you can get 3 IP's that can't be dispelled or easily detected from Astral Space.

The problem here is that the Mage we are talking about used metamagic power gained through initiation to keep a spell active permanently, thus, he doesn't need to sustain it.

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

If you're talking about the Quickening metamagic, it's still dispellable.

[Garou]

I´m sorry. I did not see where a sustained spell can be dispelled (i know it can be Counterspelled, if present at the moment of the casting).

[Octopiii]

It's Force + Magic + Karma for quickened spells. Not likely to dispel the whole thing, but any net hits reduce the Force of the spell by the amount of net hits, which chips away at your IP's. You can spend extra Karma up to Force to add dice to any dispelling attempts.

[Ravor]

Not to mention the problem that without Extended Masking you might as well be shooting off flares. And even with Extended Masking you have to worry about someone possiblity piercing your veil.

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

And of course, the ever-popular strategy with GMs who have players with the quickening metamagic: wards in chokepoints.

Either the ward will pop, and a HTR team is on the way with magical backup, or your spell will pop, and you lose the additonal IPs and the karma you spent.

[Octopiii]

To get around choke points, I recommend shape (plasteel) and/or shape (concrete). Of course, this does not prevent a GM from bringing out the silly bat and warding the whole damn building.

[Ravor]

Meh, you don't need to ward the entire building ( Which in rare cases actually makes sense, although usually just around the important areas. ) in order to defeat the various "Shape Spells" ( Personally I figure that any Mage worth his salt is going to have researched "Shape Anything" as opposed to the more limited canon spells. ), you just need to have sensors to detect the vibations from the wall twisting and opening into a doorway.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Not to mention the problem that without Extended Masking you might as well be shooting off flares. And even with Extended Masking you have to worry about someone possiblity piercing your veil.

Well if they pierce your masking I'm not sure how much more a quickened spell will set off alarms than you being a initiate level mage. But its a good point, one that we bumped into last week in our game. But hey the deckers set off just as many alarms with there PANs not being set to the right look. So it wasn't my fault, they told me they fixed it. And now that I have extended masking all is good in the world.

[Ravor]

Perhaps it wouldn't, but it isn't a chance I'd want to take personally.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Meh, you don't need to ward the entire building ( Which in rare cases actually makes sense, although usually just around the important areas. ) in order to defeat the various "Shape Spells" ( Personally I figure that any Mage worth his salt is going to have researched "Shape Anything" as opposed to the more limited canon spells. ), you just need to have sensors to detect the vibations from the wall twisting and opening into a doorway.

Shape anything is cool if your GM allows it. I wouldn't. I'm of the opinion that if the only examples are restrictive you should not be able to research the non-restrictive version. I have trouble believing only PC mages think oh year 1 or 2 more drain is worth making it shape everything. Also generally if only the restrictive version exists I assume that is for balance reasons.

And yes, given that we use plenty of vibration sensors nowadays in secure areas, I'd assume any secure area in the future would have them as well to avoid shape spells, digging by manual labor, drones, or elementals etc. But if you go full pink mohawk I doubt you worry about those kinds of things, and sensors get in the way of the rule of cool.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Perhaps it wouldn't, but it isn't a chance I'd want to take personally.

So even with extened masking you wont use quickened spells?

Will you use focuses since those can be turned off and on?

[Ravor]

Aye, I understand your concerns with "Shape Anything" completely, in fact I have informed my players that they do not work on living objects and are only good for big changes, not the type of stuff like shaping someone's clothes, ect...

And no, I personally don't like using Quickened Spells on myself as a Shadowrunner, too many things can go wrong and I don't like being out of the karma if I have to lose it. Foci are better, but even so, I would hesitate getting my IPs from the spell.

However, don't think that I view Quickening as useless, far from it, I just don't think that using it on yourself is a very smart idea.

As for Pink Mohawk and sensors, personally I disagree, I run a fairly Pink Mohawk game, but I interject alot of "realism" into it as well.

[darthmord]

My problem with Quickening is that it's too expensive for what it gives. If the game world is properly stood up and run, you stand a decent chance of losing your goodies if going up against a tough or better facility due to magical protections and whatnot.

One thing I've not seen with Quickening is this... assuming the dispelling attempt against the quickened spell fails. Do the hits the Quickened spell lost regenerate? I seem to recall things like Mana Barriers & Physical Barriers regenerate their force every so often if they aren't dropped entirely. Does that same functionality apply to Quickened spells?

[Draco18s]

To get around choke points, I recommend shape (plasteel) and/or shape (concrete). Of course, this does not prevent a GM from bringing out the silly bat and warding the whole damn building.

This reminds me of a D&D game (that I was not in). One player was a character built around charging/bull rushing, and either also around sundering things, or that was another character.

In either case, the party ran across a town, a small, not too rich town. Enemies: immovable monks (very nitch prestige class) and every wall, floor, and ceiling was encased in a wall of force.

That's right every single wall, floor, and ceiling in the entire town had permanent walls of force.

[Maelstrome]

My problem with Quickening is that it's too expensive for what it gives. If the game world is properly stood up and run, you stand a decent chance of losing your goodies if going up against a tough or better facility due to magical protections and whatnot.

One thing I've not seen with Quickening is this... assuming the dispelling attempt against the quickened spell fails. Do the hits the Quickened spell lost regenerate? I seem to recall things like Mana Barriers & Physical Barriers regenerate their force every so often if they aren't dropped entirely. Does that same functionality apply to Quickened spells?

thats how i run it. it makes quickening more useful that way. but it might not be raw.

[DamienKnight]

And of course, the ever-popular strategy with GMs who have players with the quickening metamagic: wards in chokepoints.

Either the ward will pop, and a HTR team is on the way with magical backup, or your spell will pop, and you lose the additonal IPs and the karma you spent.

Oh how I miss how you could Mask yourself and your gear through a ward in 3rd edition... basically reading the source aura of the ward and convincing the ward you were its creator and it should let you pass without alarm.

[Ravor]

You still can do that, but trying to track down the ward's creator is a real pain in the ass.

Aye, Quickening is rather expensive to use, which is why I've introduced my houserule allowing a Mage to temporarily "burn" a point of Magic to tie up the spell in question. He gets it back once the spell is dropped or dispelled. Still expensive to use, but it gives the metamagic more versitity in my opinion.

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

Shape anything is cool if your GM allows it. I wouldn't. I'm of the opinion that if the only examples are restrictive you should not be able to research the non-restrictive version. I have trouble believing only PC mages think oh year 1 or 2 more drain is worth making it shape everything. Also generally if only the restrictive version exists I assume that is for balance reasons.

I'd probably allow it...for great dragons - after all, the sole statted example I've seen had a mystic hardened armor spell - they're overpowered by design.