*HELP!* Pain Editor and the Pimped Sorcess, When your players s3x0r the rulez Options

[DamienKnight]

One of my favorite players made an ork sorceress with a Pain Editor. I didnt realize how pimped this was until her first run.

She started casting spells right and left, and when she took the drain, she just flipped on the pain editor (consequently getting +1 willpower for extra drain resistance, and feeling no pain modifiers for stun damage).

Now ALL of my spell slingin or spirit callin players are wanting to jump on the band wagon.

The only real disadvantage (besides the 1 point of magic she lost for getting a little bioware), is that she cant keep track of what damage she is taking, but thats hard to hide unless I do all her damage and drain resistance rolls myself (most characters really want to roll for themselves). I really hope that she loses track of stun and it overflows enough to kill her. BAH

How do i deter this drain pimping trend? What can I do? Is there some other drawback im missing? If I dont stem this flow of cheese soon, Im going to have a group of 5 spell slinging superheroes, and the game is going to lose alot of its alure.


HELP ME!

[Jr. Woodchuck]

You had the right answer. You now must do all drain resistance rolls for the player. To not to defeats the entire purpose of the player having the pain editor.

Your player has taken all the advantages of the bioware, but has "weaseled" out all the disadvantages.

[RedmondLarry]

If she complains, let her roll her dice behind your GM screen without her looking at them. Ask her if she wants to use Karma for a reroll, without her knowing the results. Not only drain resistance rolls, but all damage resistance rolls too.

[DamienKnight]

Well, I guess that is a decent deterrant. Sounds like Im doing all the rolls from now on.

[Diesel]

Razor her. People miss that in real life until they notice they're dripping. It should just be more fun with those tactile senses impeded.

And if your entire group wants to do this, just say no. I won't let more than X number of Y archetype play in this game, and he got it first. Sorry dude. :D

[Zazen]

If she snags a biomonitor then you're back to square one. She'll know her condition just by looking at her wrist. Pain editors just happen to be good 'ware, man.

Note that it will keep a Trauma Dampener from functioning, though. That's another piece of awesome 'ware for a spellslinger that she can't really use anymore.

[Diesel]

Hell, didn't it hurt her magic right good though?

And serious, too cocky = face full of lead.

[Cain]

For the record, according to the official FAQ, you can flat-out ban cultured bioware for starting characters.

[Glyph]

It's not that big a deal. She doesn't suffer Drain penalties, but at the expense of a big hit on Magic. Remember - she does suffer penalties for physical wounds; she is simply unaware of them. Remember physical Drain when she casts Force: 6 spells with a Magic of 5, too.

Honestly - a piece of 'ware that negates stun penalties (but not the stun itself) is not that unbalancing. Most spellslingers that I play can soak Drain with a few extra dice - so this is not that different from a sorcerer with a Force: 3+ focus. And she could have gotten a better deal by simply taking the Pain Resistance Edge at 3, letting her ignore up to Moderate stun or wounds, without the drawbacks.

If she is a better spellcaster, add an extra security goon or two, since they will start qualifying for the tougher jobs. Now, if you were wanting a lower-powered game, then you might want to consider not allowing cultured bioware at char-gen. You might also want to limit how many people can run spellslingers at once. Maybe they can play rotating characters, so you don't have a campaign where everyone is a mage. I personally prefer letting players play whatever they want, but if they all want to play one specialty, that can make it a lot tougher to come up with runs for them.

[Sphynx]

Couple things to remember. Only Stun damage is ignored in regards to penalties. If she's shot or somesuch, she's still gonna have higher TNs.

Secondly, after you roll stun, always tell her she feels no drain at all, I wouldn't let Karma into the equation ever. Even if she overflows to physical, just smile and tell her, no stun, as that's exactly how she feels.

However, personaly... If I didn't want that sort of behavior, I think telling them that spell-drain-damage is uneffected by any bio or cyber ware. I either let them have all the fun they want with their PainEditor or TraumaDampener, or none at all. I tend to let anything go though, as I like having characters in my campaigns that are bad-ass as possible.

Ones I don't like are the patient ones.... waiting with a 5 Willpower for 40 karma worth of gaming (about 10 games total) to Initiate, and Quicken with 12 karma a Force 6 Willpower spell (with 2 re-rolls from Karma Pool and Expendable foci helpers). I'd take an abuseable PainEditor character any day over that. :P

Sphynx

[L.D]

Everyone here has some very good points, but I would like to add one: Stress.

When Bioware takes stresspoints the effects can be bad.

[Trickster]

[Diesel]

I'd prefer it over the GL. :D

[Tiralee]

[The Jopp]

From what I understand of the Pain Editor it only stops STUN damage so the character would feel normal pain from bullet wounds and knife stabs, dismemberment etc.

If they would like to avoid physical pain then they need another piece of bioware with a very high pricetag.

Ok, so they can drain a little better, but they loose magic rating, which mean that there are higher possibilities of PHYSICAL drain whenever they use a spell with a higher force than their magic rating.

[DigitalMage]

[Panzergeist]

If she inadvertently gets physical damage from her drain, she might get a stress point or two on the pain editor, don't forget that.

[BitBasher]

I have found that it scares players silly to not be able to see the results of their body dice rolls, nor be able to see their current wound level.

As a house rule I let the pain editor remove ALL wound modifiers as a result of this, as they can't physically feel anything. But they don't get to touch a die. Furthermore, a biomonitor will NOT work when the pain editor is engaged because the nerves are providing NO feedback to the biomonitor, and no technical soloution will bypass this, The brain is not getting indicators of damage and neither is the Cyber. The Body doesn't attempt to compensate or protect itself.

Very, very dangerous, and very very impressive when used.

[Prototype]

What's really so bad about this? I don't see a problem with it.

Any half decent starting mage can toss about the kind of spells they'll regularly want to cast without worrying about drain too much anyway.

So the pain editor and trauma damper make it even easier, but it's really the difference between a couple of lights here and there.

The only time drain really becomes a factor is if you're sustaining a spell already, casting an elemental manipulation or in an area of high background count. Or summoning spirits I suppose.

Most mages will start with willpower 6 (if they don't they might as well throw that towel in) and a fair proportion will go with a 7 if the GM lets them. With starting sorcery 6 (who wouldn't?) and maybe spellcasting 7 (if you're so inclined) you don't really need spell pool for the usual manabolt/invisibility/armour type spells. That means that even casting two or three spells a round you can be tossing 9-10 dice on drain resistance, most often against TN between 2-4 and rarely requiring more than 6 successes.

So when the big boys are cracked out (fireball, rating 4 background count, etc.) the pain editor/trauma damper aren't going to help that much, just make things a little more survivable. I don't think there's anything to cry about.

[Zazen]

[Kagetenshi]

I'd personally just nerf High Pain Tolerance instead of improving the Pain Editor. Take a look at the picture for the thing in Man and Machine. That right there sums up the power of the pain editor.

~J

[spotlite]

So she's a point of magic down, is more easily affected by diseases and toxins, the bioware can take stress and really frag her (wound effects people! Never forget wound effects. I only ever use them when someone takes a big hit, but you could use the rules all the time with that particular character if you wanted, so long as you did the same with any one else who has bioware you wouldn't be being unfair), and she can't tell what damage level she has.

I see no problems with this. In fact, I only see fun, on both sides of the shield. Hyper will still screw her completely, something lots of security guards carry just in case they run into a mage. Squirt her with that stuff and spell slinging's gonna get real difficult. There's lots of things you can do. In Shadowrun, NOTHING has no downside somewhere. its just knowing how to expoit it. I think ideas already posted cover just about everything. But there's bound to be more.

Also, remember, unless she's really abusing it, and it doesn't really sound like she is (she's using it to stay effective longer. She can't factor in her own condition too well, but she isn't using it to lord it over every situation unless that just hasn't been mentioned), you don't NEED to do anything special. Use the rules as they are (stress, toxins and diseases, and surprise modifiers out of nowhere when the editor reaches its limit), when they come up, and all will be well. Only if she starts taking the piss do you actually NEED to do anything about it. If its upsetting the campaign, that's one thing, but just getting your goat cos she seems to have it a bit easier than you'd like isn't. Not imho, anyway, which you're free to disagree with, blah blah blah yakerty smakerty.

[DamienKnight]

Very good points, all of you.

I dont think the hit she takes on her magic rating balances the advantage (she just makes up for it with a grade 3 power focus, and now she is initiated).

It doesnt affect physical modifiers, and I dont think a house rule that makes the .6 BI and 60,000 nuyen pain editor even more powerful is going to be a good idea.

I am satisfied with just handling all of her damage or drain rolls myself, and denying her karma rerolls with a simple grin and 'Umm...you dont feel anything :D'

It is a bit of a hassle, because she goes from being able to injure everyone with an area affect spell to completly Pwning huge groups of guys and ignoring the serious stun she just took from drain. This is UBER powerful for a mage, but if im making all her resistance rolls, she either going to die quick, or use the item with more hesitation.

Thanks for all the suggestions, yall. I feel I have a much better hold on the situation now.

[Kagetenshi]

No no no, allow her karma rerolls, just make her guess when to use them based on no more evidence than just the raw number of dice she threw and the TN. More evil that way :vegm:

~J

[BitBasher]