IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

5 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Melee Characters, How would you make one well?
SuperCracker
post Aug 17 2009, 09:29 AM
Post #1


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 14-April 09
From: San Francisco, CA
Member No.: 17,076



Okay. So, the point of this thread is simple: come up with a relevant melee runner. What works the best/fills in a decent role within the party?

I understand the character should have a good gun skill as well (because let's face it, you can't always be up close), but the primary focus should be melee. Also, leave room/avenues for appropriate defenses.

Adept? Cyber? Bio? Killing hands or a weapon focus?

I leave this question to you all.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bmcoomes
post Aug 17 2009, 09:42 AM
Post #2


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 651
Joined: 15-September 06
From: Ephrata, Wa
Member No.: 9,382



Here is one that I have been working on for sometime.

Ariel Juagahun "Tandang"
Ork, Male, Age-18, 6'4" @ 285 lbs (1.93 meters @ 129.27 kg)
[ Spoiler ]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElFenrir
post Aug 17 2009, 09:55 AM
Post #3


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,168
Joined: 15-April 05
From: Helsinki, Finland
Member No.: 7,337



My main characterm Kael, is an elven sam specialized in hand to hand, and he kicks plenty of ass. I don't have his full sheet in front of me, it's in his folder in the other room, but he was built with 750 Karma(and under SR4 rules which we prefer.)

But he does very well for himself-Strength 5(9), Agility 5(9), Body 4(5, +3 damage soak), good reaction and intuition for initiative. He's a cyber variant-Titanium Bone Lacing, Wired Reflexes 2(trust me, you want extra passes, the more the merrier). High Agility is more important than high Strength-his strength is high more for character than actual damage potential.

He has 4 levels of Martial Arts(Savate/Muay Thai level 2, Tae Kwan Do Lv. 1 and Escrima Lv. 1), and has both Unarmed and Blades(blades 4, unarmed 5(+2) Kick Attacks). Steel-capped boots and hardliners(extra DV in our games), +3 DV from the unarmed combat(and and extra +1 to his blades), Kick Attack, Riposte, Watchful Guard, Finishing Blow, Iajutsu, and Sweep for maneuvers. (He's got lots of other skills too, but I just wanted to break down his melee aspect.) In the end, his base hits are 5(Strength), +3(Bone Lacing), +3(Martial Arts), +1(Hardliners) for 12P damage, with a +1 reach on his kicks, and throws 16 dice(17 if he takes the reach die to his advantage) in melee encounters. He's pretty much a beast. Of course, I have sweat still in fights-his body and armor are good but he is still easily hurtable if he meets some burst-fire; making things like Gymnastics Dodge and Synthacardium very, very good to have(along with a good Reaction.) In other words, make sure your melee character has a good defensive base, as they will need it to get close. (his Running skill has come in VERY handy). He also has firearms back-up(being an armorer as well), while he's not the best shot in the world it is very nice to have something to lay down cover fire to get close.

He seems quite powerful but we usually play our games kicked up a notch from normal(not uber-powered but a little more powerful than average).

(I could rebuild him with 400 BP fairly easy-he'd end up losing Blades and a few of his other stats would likely be 1 lower with a couple other skills lowered/cut, with an extra level of muscle toner and augmentation. We don't play with Availability limits in our games at chargen in any case, just telling players what the relative power level is and we go from there.)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
remmus
post Aug 17 2009, 12:00 PM
Post #4


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 202
Joined: 6-May 09
Member No.: 17,145



I myself intend to build a melee character (weapons user) and even if i have no expeirince with SR4 (or any SR) my 10 year PnP experience tells me two things are cornerstone. Armour and stealth


Armour can be built up many ways but thanks to the Arsenal book a character has now the option for 3 layers of armour: Dermal Plating/Dermal sheath+ Form-Fitting Body Armour+ any normal armour. This should give you the protection to take a few hits while your closing the range.


Stealth however is viable option, it´s (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) free (unless you buy a Camouflage or Chameleon suit) and gives you the edge to close the distance and break a guards neck or shove a vibrosword threw his chest.


again I´m a total SR n00b so I can have totally misst something, but these are my 2 cents on how i will build my melee guy.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ol' Scratch
post Aug 17 2009, 12:31 PM
Post #5


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Validating
Posts: 7,999
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,890



I prefer building characters who specialize in non-lethal combat. It just seems more professional and grants far more benefits than they deny. Afterall, once an opponent is knocked out, you can still choose to kill him and do so in a far less noisy, messy way than a shotgun blast to the face.

That said, your best option for melee is naturally an Adept. That's their core design niche for crying out loud. You can build a Street Samurai-type character who's every bit as effective, but it comes down to the old "strong to start versus stronger as they grow" argument. A Street Sam will have way more bonuses at character creation, but an Adept has no effective cap to how powerful they become. They can also infiltrate secure areas more easily (less worries about MAD scanners and the like) and have numerous unique magical abilities that a Street Sam can't duplicate (such as create blast waves with their fists or walking across snow without leaving a track). Plus there's Weapon Foci which make them a force to be reckoned with against mundane and magical opponents alike.

In the end though, it comes down to what flavor you're after. If you're designing your character based upon what his stats will look like rather than what the character will be like, you're doing it all wrong in my opinion. Optimization comes after you have the concept, not before!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bmcoomes
post Aug 17 2009, 12:41 PM
Post #6


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 651
Joined: 15-September 06
From: Ephrata, Wa
Member No.: 9,382



Who's that reply for Dr. Funkenstein? I would agree with it all, the build I've posted is a "optimized" concept that I have had based around a martial art and culture. I can post the roll-play version which has much more fluff and broader range but less powerfull.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PirateChef
post Aug 17 2009, 12:50 PM
Post #7


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 269
Joined: 25-September 06
Member No.: 9,467



I'm working on a build that uses Clubs, under the assumption that no matter what happens, you can always pick up something and use it as a club. Probably an adept, and make him a Face/infiltration specialist.



Edit: Spelling
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sir fwank
post Aug 17 2009, 01:02 PM
Post #8


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 102
Joined: 26-February 02
From: harrisburg metroplex, pa
Member No.: 623



if you can't beat average troll who has average skill in bat, and said troll has a bat, then your melee character sucks.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rasumichin
post Aug 17 2009, 01:57 PM
Post #9


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,300
Joined: 6-February 08
From: Cologne, Germany
Member No.: 15,648



I'd totally echo the advice on stealth.
I view melee characters as "frontliners", the guys who go in first, who scout ahead.
Stealth is absolutely vital for that role.
It's difficult to increase, though.

As far as equipment is concerned, chameleon suits and thermal dampening are practically a must.

Good ware are Enhanced Articulation and Reflex Recorder, but both are expensive.

A cheap boost are adept powers, these guys are great at sneaking around.

Another way are certain mentor spirits, which are in SR4A also officially available for adepts.
Both Cat and Rat give a bonus to Stealth tests, but their disadvantages are particularly painful for a melee character.

Then there's the Catlike and Camo Fur Qualities from Runner's Companion and the Ninjitsu martial art.
Speaking of martial arts, they're practically a must anyway.
I'd recommend the techniques Set-Up, Finishing Move and Herding.


Of course, there's other, non-ninja approaches to melee combat, too.
Basically, it's always about closing in on the opponent; in a game where firearms are abundant, but most people will not stand a chance when confronted with a dedicated melee specialist, it's all about getting to the opposition without being shot down.
Sneaking up on them is one way, another option is to just charge at them.
Trolls are great for this, as they are both tough and fast.
Anything that increases your running speed proves helpful here, such as the Celerity and Satyr Legs Qualities from Runner's Companion.
The latter is also available as a cyber equivalent (Raptor Legs) and gives a bonus to kick attacks, as well as +2 to Acrobatics, including Acrobatic dodge.
Dodging is important for this approach, anyways.
As is the ability to soak damage, but it's more important to be good at dodging, as it defends you just the same, but includes the option not to get hit in the first place.
So when you build a PC with such a direct, brutal approach to melee combat, put some points into Reaction.
The Reakt and Synch genewares from Augmentation are also worth considering, as well as the adept power Combat Sense.

An interesting take on the whole closing-up problem is to invest in Con and fast-talk until you attack your opponent by surprise.
Note that the adept Power Enthralling Performance can work with fast-talk at the GM's approval.
Another pro for adepts, as they can pump up their social dicepools with ease.

Then there's the possibility that you want to build a real tank.
Someone who beats up the sec guards so that they don't shoot the mage first.
Troll (preferrably fomori, because of Arcane Arrester) with damage-soaking 'ware, maxed-out Reaction and lots of dice for Intimidation.
Qualities such as Nasty Vibe, anything incurring Freak modifiers, a big, nasty axe with Custom Look and so on.
Probably even a ghoul as well.


As far as weapons are concerned, you should definitely invest in Unarmed Combat.
You may be disarmed, you may have to get into areas where you cannot carry a sword or axe and do not even want to risk bringing a concealed ceramic knife or monowhip, so you should be able to do some harm with your bare fists.
There's a lot of adept powers that help you deal unarmed damage, from Critical Strike (which can make your fists more deadly than any weapon) to Elemental Strike (particularly useful when you choose a rather obscure element no one packs protection against).
In fact, when you're an adept and really want to specialize in melee, you may not want to bother with an expensive Weapon Focus when you have such a wide array of powers specifically for unarmed combat to choose from.
After some initiations, you may deal more damage unarmed than with a claymore (especially if you also pack Bone Density bioware or Bone Lacing cyber).
However, all these powers eat up a lot of points, so there's viable approaches to build a swordmaster, knife adept or axe-wielding barbarian as well.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
McCummhail
post Aug 17 2009, 03:49 PM
Post #10


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 388
Joined: 30-July 09
From: Charlotte, NC
Member No.: 17,452



Elemental strike is quite nice as it halves your opponents armor (unless they have the appropriate protection).
Hardliner gloves work well as a weapon foci for unarmed combatants.

Riposte is a maneuver I enjoy. Coupled with counterstrike and/or other defensive benefits it is very effective, even when outnumbered.

Bone-lacing/Bone Density Augmentation (preference to the latter) are good for any character who might have to slug it out.
Even an adept for .96 points of essence (1 magic point), can get Bone Density Augment (4) at chargen for 160K (alphagrade), which gives you +4 to damage resistance, (Str/2)+3P melee damage, and makes killing hands unnecessary.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
remmus
post Aug 17 2009, 06:20 PM
Post #11


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 202
Joined: 6-May 09
Member No.: 17,145



however one must respect that it is the age of guns and fireballs and so a 100% melee character is a challenge, sinking a few BP into a good pistol rating is very much helpful for those times a GM decides to put you in a situation where your enemy is yards away and not even the best use of stealth on planet earth can save you.

for weapons preferentially select a light pistol for easy conceal and manoeuvrability in tight rooms, for add ons a silencer is a must as stealth still is your best guard, a laser sight or smartgun system helps with aiming as headshots are important for upholding stealth. If using melee weapons a knife is sugested as it can be held at the same time as the gun in a backhand grip without the GM having any reasons to give you minus to hit rolls with either weapon.


Also if the GM allows it the disarm Manoeuvre from Arsenal could in theory apply to guns if you reach melee range.


again these are just my 2 cents I don´t claim I´m right or no what's best so take everything with a grain of salt
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
wylie
post Aug 17 2009, 06:25 PM
Post #12


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 150
Joined: 4-November 08
Member No.: 16,567



stealth and protection are very much a cornerstone, but...

whatever you decide to be your melee skill and find ways to max it:
aptitude
reflex recorders
adept ability
martial art quality from arsenal

i got a player who had to move and he was rolling 15 dice on average, 18 when you throw in parrying
we found out when he parried, and use riposte, he did better on average dice

for those wondering, no i don't have that character sheet avaible, but maybe i can ask th eplayer really really nicely, he'll send me a copy
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
WyldKnight
post Aug 17 2009, 06:56 PM
Post #13


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 540
Joined: 5-May 09
From: California
Member No.: 17,140



McCummail - You say the implants make killing hands useless. I thought you needed killing hands to use the elemental attack? If you want that sound attack won't you need killing hands?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
wylie
post Aug 17 2009, 07:08 PM
Post #14


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 150
Joined: 4-November 08
Member No.: 16,567



yeah, you need killing hands to develop elemental strike
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
McCummhail
post Aug 17 2009, 07:13 PM
Post #15


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 388
Joined: 30-July 09
From: Charlotte, NC
Member No.: 17,452



QUOTE (WyldKnight @ Aug 17 2009, 02:56 PM) *
McCummail - You say the implants make killing hands useless. I thought you needed killing hands to use the elemental attack? If you want that sound attack won't you need killing hands?
I stated that it makes killing hands 'unnecessary' as opposed to 'useless'.
Elemental strike pre-req, distance strike pre-req, bypassing ItNW, and astral combat are uses that killing hands can afford you that the implants cannot, YMMV.

Level 3 Bone Density Augments give you nearly equivalent melee bonuses to killing hands and critical strike 2 combined; (Str/2)+2P Unarmed Damage. The trade off being that the implant gives you damage resistance and the powers give you the above options plus critical strike theoretically has no cap.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
WyldKnight
post Aug 17 2009, 08:02 PM
Post #16


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 540
Joined: 5-May 09
From: California
Member No.: 17,140



Ah, I see. This is true. It kind of bugs me that I need an ability I can copy with implants to get another one but hey, I guess thats a balance thing. I think my personal favorite melee character was my mystic adept. 6 magic, 4 in spells, 2 in power points. Used 1 point to up his unarmed combat and the other 2 to grab killing hands and elemental attack sound. The magic was mostly for summoning, improved reflexes, invisibility, and silence. Every once and a while I would throw a stunball out there but didn't have to do that much. The spirits were mainly for concealing or a well placed distraction followed by a sonic spartan kick. Sure the main disadvantage of the mystic adept is that he is constantly choosing between two sides but I found the mix to be pretty beneficial. My GM even approved a metamagic for giving adepts/mystic adepts astral projection though Im still on the fence about taking it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LurkerOutThere
post Aug 17 2009, 08:08 PM
Post #17


Runner
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,946
Joined: 1-June 09
From: Omaha
Member No.: 17,234



Important concern of KH versus the various bone augmentations. You can't turn the bone density phyysical damage off. Now personally as a GM I still allow my characters to choose to do stun but i pull a few dice from their attack roll as a modifier when their trying to pull the punches.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
McCummhail
post Aug 17 2009, 08:21 PM
Post #18


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 388
Joined: 30-July 09
From: Charlotte, NC
Member No.: 17,452



QUOTE (WyldKnight @ Aug 17 2009, 04:02 PM) *
My GM even approved a metamagic for giving adepts/mystic adepts astral projection though Im still on the fence about taking it.
I wager if he is dropping that carrot out there, he wants you to take it.

Some more fun antics for melee combat;
Magical pests?
Install mage-cuffs and/or mage-hood with a called shot,
one less mage to worry about, take em back when you're done.

Matrix users being a bother?
Put a plug in a hacker/rigger's datajack;
Disarm them of their commlink;
put an anti-wireless coated sack on their head,
retrieve items when finished and use the commlink for fun.

Troll too tough to drop?
Tranq patch for the win!
Even trolls go to sleep.

Too many bullets cramping your style?
Keep a ballistic shield in the van,
Run through automatic fire, because you can!
Drop your shield and disarm that firearm for some man-to-man.

Happy Hunting! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
WyldKnight
post Aug 17 2009, 08:26 PM
Post #19


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 540
Joined: 5-May 09
From: California
Member No.: 17,140



You think so? Huh, didn't think of that. Maybe he does.

Speaking of shields the Weapon master in the group with my mysad uses one. An epic moment was when he charged a prime runner with his shield who botched his roll and they both went bursting through a window. Thank god I just got levitate last session or he would have been dead. We all voted he should get extra karma for that stunt.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
McAllister
post Aug 17 2009, 08:45 PM
Post #20


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 509
Joined: 16-June 09
Member No.: 17,282



QUOTE (McCummhail @ Aug 17 2009, 04:21 PM) *
I wager if he is dropping that carrot out there, he wants you to take it.

Some more fun antics for melee combat;
Magical pests?
Install mage-cuffs and/or mage-hood with a called shot,
one less mage to worry about, take em back when you're done.

Matrix users being a bother?
Put a plug in a hacker/rigger's datajack;
Disarm them of their commlink;
put an anti-wireless coated sack on their head,
retrieve items when finished and use the commlink for fun.

Troll too tough to drop?
Tranq patch for the win!
Even trolls go to sleep.

Too many bullets cramping your style?
Keep a ballistic shield in the van,
Run through automatic fire, because you can!
Drop your shield and disarm that firearm for some man-to-man.

Happy Hunting! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)


Your writing is so poetic. The paragraph about dropping trolls is practically a haiku, and reading the paragraph about bullets with the right cadence makes it sound like it should be rapped. Do you write like that on purpose?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
McCummhail
post Aug 17 2009, 09:02 PM
Post #21


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 388
Joined: 30-July 09
From: Charlotte, NC
Member No.: 17,452



QUOTE (McAllister @ Aug 17 2009, 04:45 PM) *
Your writing is so poetic. The paragraph about dropping trolls is practically a haiku, and reading the paragraph about bullets with the right cadence makes it sound like it should be rapped. Do you write like that on purpose?
Thanks.
Saying it wasn't on purpose sounds a bit immodest,
so I am going to blame it on Yeats.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
remmus
post Aug 18 2009, 12:23 AM
Post #22


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 202
Joined: 6-May 09
Member No.: 17,145



don´t forget your choice of fighting style affect you too, personally Krav Maga is what I´m getting for my character, it has good benefices that's aimed to disarm and knock out gunmen (a must considering eavry punk on the street has a handgun) but others have there uses ofcourse, whats your fighting style of choice?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
McAllister
post Aug 18 2009, 01:52 AM
Post #23


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 509
Joined: 16-June 09
Member No.: 17,282



Honestly, the best melee build is probably two levels of Firefight and a level of Krav Maga, a shotgun specialty for the Longarms skill, and 10 steaming AA-16 rounds right in a bugger's face. I wonder what the recoil mod for "pressed up against my target's chest" is? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif) Hell, if you wanted (and wanted to make realism your bitch), you could even silence the damn thing. And while Dodge is probably mechanically the better melee avoidance choice, no reason not to melee-harden the gun and parry using Clubs. Required strength? Zero. DV and AP? 17P and -2, with ex-ex rounds.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
remmus
post Aug 18 2009, 01:57 AM
Post #24


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 202
Joined: 6-May 09
Member No.: 17,145



QUOTE (McAllister @ Aug 18 2009, 03:52 AM) *
I wonder what the recoil mod for "pressed up against my target's chest" is? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)


considering recoil pushes a gun back...none (ok maybe a small one because the gases can´t escape properly if you really press it firmly to the target)


edit: btw here is a few videos to inspire how Krav Maga can look in your rp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07jnqD8wvyE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HaY2gV5seg...feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnBa-sdNIEo...feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE-V9lkONeI...feature=channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
McCummhail
post Aug 18 2009, 03:43 AM
Post #25


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 388
Joined: 30-July 09
From: Charlotte, NC
Member No.: 17,452



Arnis / Escrima is nice for the disarm and disarm benefits.
Kiai is good for shouting until your opponent falls over dead with laughter.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

5 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 3rd March 2024 - 07:02 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.