Metahuman Biodrones? Options

[tsuyoshikentsu]

As the title says. I'm wondering: I'm not seeing in the book (Augmentation) where a metahuman couldn't be implanted with a biodrone control system for some 5-IP fun.

[Stahlseele]

Because 5 IP are only for Cyber-Space, not for Meat-Space

[Prime Mover]

Think McQ has a post from a week or two ago about just this. We've addressed this locally not too long ago as well. New movie "Gamer" gives some ideas.
A quality exists that makes the character an escaped clone, certainly you could toss a stirrup system in a clone. Cost would be a limiting factor. Theres at least one mention of "jumping jacks" rigged clones the Proteus board used for face to face meetings IRC.

Also the mention of biomorph drones in Runners companion and Eclipse phase site (Human sleeves) about the same time got me thinking we'd see something concrete in the near future. I've since been told that the drones mentioned in Runners Companion were VGI drones. (Although I was told they would be explained in an upcoming book in a past chat and VGI has been around since Augmentation.)

Edit: What Stah said, think it's been addressed recently. Meat 4 passes. Machine 5 passes.

[BishopMcQ]

VGI gets a bit more information and some actual mechanics in Running Wild. (Look in the Critter Rules chapter near Warforms.)

I did talk about putting a stirrup into people--it makes a fun exploit for mysterious cyberware and a Street Sam who has a MBW system, or it can have some additional side uses. The 5 IP being discussed for cyberspace would apply for a rigger who has "jumped into" the drone and is running the necessary hardware--upto 4 shooting et al with the drone plus an extra matrix action. It's very costly, but does start approaching a few of the transhuman issues.

[Tiger Eyes]

VGI gets a bit more information and some actual mechanics in Running Wild. (Look in the Critter Rules chapter near Warforms.)

I did talk about putting a stirrup into people--it makes a fun exploit for mysterious cyberware and a Street Sam who has a MBW system, or it can have some additional side uses. The 5 IP being discussed for cyberspace would apply for a rigger who has "jumped into" the drone and is running the necessary hardware--upto 4 shooting et al with the drone plus an extra matrix action. It's very costly, but does start approaching a few of the transhuman issues.

I knew it would come up! I knew it! RW has been out for 1 week and look what you've done!!!

[Aaron]

Rigger, please.

I'm thinking that stirrup-ing yourself will give you potentially 5 IPs, use your Response instead of Reaction (and Agility in some cases), take a -1 to all skills, and take 1.5 times the damage from bio-feedback through the rigged interface. Not sure about what sort of Sensor rating one would have, though, for attacking and Perception tests.

If that's your bucket of ducks, I say knock yourself out.

[Shinxy]

Rigger, please.

I'm thinking that stirrup-ing yourself will give you potentially 5 IPs, use your Response instead of Reaction (and Agility in some cases), take a -1 to all skills, and take 1.5 times the damage from bio-feedback through the rigged interface. Not sure about what sort of Sensor rating one would have, though, for attacking and Perception tests.

If that's your bucket of ducks, I say knock yourself out.

I'd say you'd probably have to limit IPs to the rating of the MBW system you install. I don't see why skill ratings should be penalized though. Also, what if you run cold sim? No biofeedback there. Or would a cold sim jump-in on a metahuman biodrone even be possible?

[TBRMInsanity]

I don't think it is possible to stirrup yourself. Why would you need to jump into yourself, if anything that would slow yourself down (it would be like remote desktopping into the computer your working on, very silly).

[Shinxy]

I don't think it is possible to stirrup yourself. Why would you need to jump into yourself, if anything that would slow yourself down (it would be like remote desktopping into the computer your working on, very silly).

By my read, that's basically exactly what move by wire systems do.

[BishopMcQ]

I knew it would come up! I knew it! RW has been out for 1 week and look what you've done!!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) You're just mad, I came up with the idea first. At least they haven't discovered phase two yet... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)


Edit: On a slightly more serious note, I think what Aaron was trying to say is that the benefits don't outweigh the drawbacks from his perspective. It may be cheaper to actually just build an anthroform rather than investing in the stirrup. (A rating 3 Stirrup has an availability of 28R and a cost of 100,000 nuyen afterall...before alpha grade increases)

The -1 that he mentioned is part and parcel of using the stirrup interface, per Augmentation 153.

[Stahlseele]

and take 1.5 times the damage from bio-feedback through the rigged interface

In ADDITION to any other physical and/or stun damage which gets dealt to your body.

[toolbox]

In ADDITION to any other physical and/or stun damage which gets dealt to your body.

No, I think that'd be included in the 1.5 times - you take normal damage from any attack, plus half again from biofeedback per standard rigging rules. Altogether, 1.5 times normal damage.

[Stahlseele]

Hrm, okay, i may be wrong there . . but math is an asshole <.<

[TBRMInsanity]

By my read, that's basically exactly what move by wire systems do.

You don't jump into yourself with a move by wire system, your put into a constant seizure state and the system directs the seizure in the motion you want to go.

[MorkaisChosen]

I'd say you'd probably have to limit IPs to the rating of the MBW system you install. I don't see why skill ratings should be penalized though. Also, what if you run cold sim? No biofeedback there. Or would a cold sim jump-in on a metahuman biodrone even be possible?

Feel free to flame the newbie if I'm being enormously dense ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) ), but doesn't Cold Sim leave you with one less IP than Hot?

[Shinxy]

You don't jump into yourself with a move by wire system, your put into a constant seizure state and the system directs the seizure in the motion you want to go.

And how does the system direct the seizure? Through DNI. And what's preventing someone else's DNI from directing the seizure for you? That's where the stirrup system comes in. Either way, through MBW you aren't directly controlling your body anymore, your mind is kind of puppeteering through a digital system. Minus the remote sensory input, isn't this exactly what rigging a metahuman biodrone would be like?

[tsuyoshikentsu]

So this can be done. Interesting.

(Tiger, note that the rules originally appeared in Aug and it looks to have been possible even then.)

[TBRMInsanity]

And how does the system direct the seizure? Through DNI. And what's preventing someone else's DNI from directing the seizure for you? That's where the stirrup system comes in. Either way, through MBW you aren't directly controlling your body anymore, your mind is kind of puppeteering through a digital system. Minus the remote sensory input, isn't this exactly what rigging a metahuman biodrone would be like?

The stirrup doesn't cause a seizure state in the biodrone, its not rigging. Sigh it is like talking to a brick wall.

[Rasumichin]

Here's what Augmentation has to say on Stirrup interfaces :

Stirrup Interface: This interface is based on an advanced
move-by-wire system (p. 40) and provides all of the same bonuses
and benefits, including the embedded skillwire system.
Additionally, it adds a remote control rig adaptation that
allows a rigger to both monitor the exact movements of the
animal as well as to “jump in� and control it directly through
full-immersion VR.
The subject animal may make full use of its own faculties
and skills, except when the rigger is “jumped in.� A rigger jumped
into the recipient will use his own skills at a –1 dice pool penalty
when performing any actions. The recipient can be controlled
by a specialized Pilot program, but then functions exactly like a
regular drone.

This means that yes, the stirrup interface does artificially induce a state of seizure, just like a MBW does.
Because a Stirrup is a modified MBW.
Plus a rigger control.
So that you can, well, rig a creature with a Stirrup implant.

[Neraph]

upto 4 shooting et al with the drone plus an extra matrix action.

This is wrong. It is 5 IP for all actions, as all actions that you make while jumped in are considered Matrix Actions. We've been over this a couple of weeks ago.

[Shinxy]

The stirrup doesn't cause a seizure state in the biodrone, its not rigging. Sigh it is like talking to a brick wall.

It might help if you made a counterargument here besides "no."

Rules state stirrup system is an advanced MBW, smart guy.

[BishopMcQ]

This is wrong. It is 5 IP for all actions, as all actions that you make while jumped in are considered Matrix Actions. We've been over this a couple of weeks ago.

Neraph--Do you have a link? I didn't follow that conversation. Part of my reasoning behind the combination was that firing a weapon in the Matrix is a Complex Action, but it's a Simple Action (usually) in the Meat, thus you can fire more by mixing and matching.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but it's a Simple Action to jump in or out without the ... um ... proper quality. More than Metahuman, I think it's called.

[BishopMcQ]

IP Meat // Matrix
1 Shoot (x2) // Shoot
2 Shoot (x2) // Shoot
3 Shoot (x2) // Shoot
4 Shoot, Jump // Shoot
5 Matrix Action // Shoot

7 shots vs 5 shots (Presuming SA/BF) With More than Metahuman, it becomes a Free Action so you can take the 8th shot before jumping.

[BishopMcQ]

Oh, and to completely undermine the entire discussion, a GM would be completely within his/her rights to say that there is not a metahuman version of the Stirrup Interface since it is designed for animals. (Augmentation p. 152)