 shapeshifter characters, does anybody use them? |
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 Jan 27 2004, 02:38 AM
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#26
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Traumatizing players since 1992  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220  |
But officially according to virtually all governments shapeshifters are not officially recognizd as sentient.
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Jan 27 2004, 03:24 AM
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#27
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,362 Joined: 3-October 03 From: Poway, San Diego County, CA, USA Member No.: 5,676 |
Well, regardless of whether you are a racist or think of shifters as people, the fact remains that killing or kidnapping one can get you in trouble. Any shifter who lives in the city almost certainly has a few human friends, who could possibly seek revenge. And anyone who knows that your shifter character is a shadowrunner will probably not consider selling him for research to be worth attracting the ire of his teammates over.
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Jan 27 2004, 05:41 AM
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#28
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,362 Joined: 3-October 03 From: Poway, San Diego County, CA, USA Member No.: 5,676 |
As for balancing shifter characters, giving them 1 set of physical attributes to purchase and only applying the racial modifiers to make animal form any better would A) minimize the difference between human and animal form B) make shifters too powerful and C) not work because the cost of raising attributes would be different depending on which form they are for, and the racial maximums have to be different for each form. As for regeneration, I think it is too powerful. If I were GM, I would replace the power of regeneration, both for shifters and everything in the critters book, to one box per minute. Healing wounds within 3 seconds of getting them is insane. Maybe have stun damage heal a little faster and/or give them an extra damage resistance die to balance this decrease. As for skills, my GM has shifters default on athletics, stealth, and unarmed combat while in animal form, at no penalty, which makes sense to me. Seal shifters could default on diving and underwater combat too. Another idea is to have them use the same athletics and stealth skills while in animal form, but require a different unarmed combat skill. Requireing them to have a whole set of seperate physical skills for animal form would really screw shifter characters over though.
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Jan 27 2004, 02:16 PM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Paris, France Member No.: 639 |
I think this is a problem with the regenration speed. In my campaign, I ruled that the regeneration speed was 1 damage level per turn, instead of all damage levels. But I also ruled that the recovery time for stun damage was halved.
There's one sentence in Critters that may give this feeling, but by the rules seeing a shapeshifter for what he is in reality follows the standard rules of astral perception, to notice the true nature of someone. With less success, you may notice some odd emotions, an exceptional health, and so on, but your character will have to deduce from elements the nature of the guy he's assensing. |
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Jan 27 2004, 02:19 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Paris, France Member No.: 639 |
Sorry, I wasn't clear: for the 'playable' part, I was talking about shapeshifting time. You're right at least for the regen part. |
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Jan 27 2004, 02:27 PM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Paris, France Member No.: 639 |
I personally use the NPC rule, i.e. in animal form any relevant skill is rolled with Reaction. Note that any skill purchased is therefore for the human form, unless specifically specified otherwise by the player. |
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Jan 27 2004, 04:47 PM
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#32
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,362 Joined: 3-October 03 From: Poway, San Diego County, CA, USA Member No.: 5,676 |
The Companion makes the astral signature thing pretty clear. A shifter's auro is always shaped like their animal form, even when their body is in human form. This means that in human form, anyone looking at them astrally can tell what they are without having to roll for it, unless they are masked. In animal form, an assensing test would be required.
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Jan 27 2004, 06:47 PM
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#33
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Target Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 15-January 04 Member No.: 5,984 |
thedon't regenerate stun drain at all, so it still is an advantage |
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Jan 27 2004, 06:52 PM
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#34
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
They regenerate stun. This is a common misconception.
In 3rd edition regeneration regenerates "damage" and is not restricted to either stun or physical. I believe it used to be in a previous edition, but that is no longer the case. Furthermore according to the companion Shifters regenerate drain damage at one box per minute. Shifters regenerate stugn damage that is not drain just as fast as they regenerate anything esle, which is to say obscenely damn fast. |
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Jan 27 2004, 07:29 PM
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#35
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
According to a strict reading of the rules, they'll regenerate all physical drain from conjuring at the end of the turn. We house rule against this.
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Feb 9 2004, 08:01 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 3-February 04 Member No.: 6,054 |
I have had immense success and fun playing shapeshifting characters. My first character played in RPG's was a female bat shapeshifter. I have since returned and played an female aspected mage leopard shapeshifter and a male full mage fox shapeshifter.
The bat character was essentially mundane except for the dual nature and regeneration abilities. It was difficult to play, but I never admitted my shapeshifting to anyone and never had problems with authorities. At the end of the run, I was trapped, shifted to a bat and flew away. It was the only time I used the ability and I ended up being the only runner of the group to survive or not be captured and tortured. My next character was an aspected (sorcery) adept leopard shapeshifter/shaman. She knew all the prejudices against shapeshifters and tried to keep her identity secret from all but the runner team. As for the problems she dealt with: Nakedness: Improved Invisibility spell and an extra set of clothing in a small pack. Another possibility, create an ally spirit with 2 forms, 1. clothing and 2. a collar. Bestial Nature: accept it, contain it in human form, release it in animal form Armor: don't wear any and stay behind the bullet catchers (sams) or invisible, this also reduces any chance of being caught in your armor when you shift Being seen from the astral as a shapeshifter: Get masking as a metamagic when you initiate. As for making an invincible character: You can't, your attributes will be weak and you skills will be minimal, however this problem can be avoided with a little bit of intelligent roleplaying. Be sneaky, don't get shot at and avoid difficult conversations. Your regeneration power is the biggest advantage to living a long time, a botched mission or mistake can be lived through. Remember the one who runs away lives to kill another day. Shapeshifter's are fun to play and tax one's acting abilities. My top two favorite characters (and I've made about 20) are both shapeshifter's. |
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Feb 9 2004, 08:47 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 693 Joined: 26-March 03 Member No.: 4,335 |
Heh. I like the fact that in SONA, Quebec offers those bounties to 'Protect the native wildlife' from the unnatural monsters. I keep getting mental images of green pro-awakened protestors clashing with green pro-natural protestors in front of the appropriate government offices. |
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Feb 9 2004, 08:57 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 693 Joined: 26-March 03 Member No.: 4,335 |
Yep. They're considered dangerous wild animals by most. All governments recognize humans as 'people'. Most recognize metas. A few recognize dragons, or sasquatches, or ghouls. As far as I know, only Amazonia recognizes shapshifters as people. Nobody recognises Bugs. The HMHVV infected are generally considered ex-people. Old beliefs die hard. Your average Joe on the street in the UCAS probably considers Shapeshifters, ghouls, and vampires pretty much all the same. "They are horrible nasty things that look like real people, but would as soon eat you as look at you." |
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Feb 9 2004, 10:46 PM
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#39
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Target Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 9-February 04 Member No.: 6,064 |
I've played shifters before and the only real problem that came up was the starting attributes and regen ability. For the attributes we ruled that you make the character as normal (one set of attributes) and then split it into human and animal stats and apply the modifiers. Once in game, animal and human stats have to be raised separately. As for the regen, we ruled that a shifter would regen one box of physical damage per hour and one box of stun every half hour. Useful but not overpowering. Most everything else is just how you and your GM play the character. It can be quite a fun challenge to play out your instincts, even if it can lead to trouble.
Joe Silverhand "It takes sense to write good nonsense" Mark Twain |
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Feb 9 2004, 11:55 PM
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#40
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Since you all are clamouring on the "shifter aren't human, therfore we can go hunt them down" bandwagon, anyone went on a spree hunting Mr Wolf of Wolf and Raven fame yet? Why isn't Wolf dead yet?
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Feb 10 2004, 01:42 AM
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#41
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Neat trick if you could pull that off with a Sorcerer! |
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Feb 10 2004, 02:32 AM
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#42
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
In his defense, he didn't say that was what the sorcerer did, just that it is another way to avoid the social problems. I agree that it should have been seperated somewhat.
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Feb 10 2004, 02:34 PM
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#43
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Because he isn't a shapeshifter - he's some sort of Magician's Way adept shaman whose powers are linked with shapechanging due to magic. In short; he's unique. But very human. (When the character was written, there were no finished Shadowrun RPG rules, and so the author made him a 'traditional' shapeshifter. Later, there was an attempt to 'explain' his abilities mostly within canon rules.) As to the hunting, in UCAS shapeshifters cannot (usually) get citizenship status and are considered 'animals' - there seems to be exceptions to this, since the Star employs a shapeshifter in one of the novels. This doesn't mean you can just kill any 'shifter you see, no more than you can just kill any other animal, but you won't be as severealy punished as if you had killed a metahuman. |
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Feb 10 2004, 03:09 PM
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#44
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Unless the shapeshifter has Masking, he will still look like an animal on two legs in the astral. Just like a dwarf with a spell on him to look like a Troll will still look like a dwarf astrally. That alone may not be enough to tip the mage off, if he hasn't seen shapeshifter auras before, however. No amount of successes on an astral perception test lets you determine the 'true' nature of a subject in canon rules. It's all pieced together by separate pieces of information. A shapeshifter? No successes: Well, he looks like an animal standing on two legs on the astral, and he looks back at you... (Remember, a shifter is dual natured, and so he or she is present astrally - not just as an aura to read) 1-2 successes: He is awakened, and has no cyberware. 3-4 successes: His essence is higher than yours(!?) (telltale sign, since alot of mages have essence 6...) 5+ successes: His essence is 8. A vampire? No successes: He looks like a human on the astral. 1-2 successes: He is not healthy, and has no cyberware. 3-4 successes: His essence is (probably) higher than yours(!?) (telltale sign, since alot of mages have essence 6...), oh and he's infected with HMHVV. 5+ successes: His essence is 12(or whatever it is), and he is suffering from HMHVV-I, making him a vampire. A dwarf masked as a Troll? No successes: His aura kind of looks like a dwarf trapped in another, astrally present, bigger aura. 1-2 successes: no helpful info. (If you are assensing the bigger aura - it's an Illusion spell!) 3-4 successes: He has a spell cast on him. (If you are assensing the bigger aura - the force is higher than your magic) 5+ successes: He has an illusion spell cast on him. (If you are assensing the bigger aura - It's a Force 10 Illusion spell.) |
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Feb 10 2004, 04:07 PM
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#45
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Ahem, as people has so often pointed out, astral perception is a purely psychic sense so how did you see the wolf? Actually, 1-2 successes would tell you that he's on the astrally active. 3-4 tells you that he's aura is very strong, so he's a multiple initiate or have more essense than a normal person. 5+ tells you that he's a werewolf. |
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Feb 12 2004, 09:47 PM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 3-February 04 Member No.: 6,054 |
Sorry about not specifying, I was thinking about another shapeshifter character that was a full mage. |
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Feb 12 2004, 10:07 PM
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#47
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
So: Has anyone considered running a shifter game where everyone's a shifter? I was thinking that a pack of wolves could have become awakened in the wilderness by some big magical drek, and end-up fighting the big nasty resource-grabbing polluting corp?
OK: So it's a touch cliche but it could be fun. Hopefully they won't all end-up as physad wolves with the same powers. |
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Feb 13 2004, 12:05 AM
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#48
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Anguirel was planning on doing something very close to this on the Forum here about a year or so ago. The only difference being that he was going to include one non-shapeshifter Shaman of the same animal totem as the 'shifters. |
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Feb 13 2004, 12:08 AM
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#49
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
LOL.
"Hello. I am the source of your magic! WORSHIP ME!" |
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Feb 14 2004, 10:46 PM
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#50
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
No offense toturi, but I suggest you read the chapter on Astral Perception in the BBB pg.171 again, as well as the assensing table on pg.172. For instance: "It takes only a Free Action to see anything actually present in astral space, like spirits, barriers and other astral forms, and does not require a Perception Test unless an astral being is specifically trying to hide from you." Besides, the word 'see' being used several times throughout the text, this also states clearly that since a shapeshifter is a dual being you would see that it was present astrally clearly without a Perception test. (Assensing, however, is the 'psychic sense' you mentioned) Nowhere I've found in any SR3 rules does it say that assensing lets you determine race or 'true nature' - if you know any place, then please tell me where to find that. The only thing regarding shapeshifters and true nature is this line in critters: "Viewing a shapeshifter in astral space reveals it's true nature" so by that you know it's a shapeshifter at first gloance (Free Action, no perception test). Then it says in Shadowrun Companion: "A shapeshifter's astral form always appear as an idealized image of it's animal form, regardless of the shapeshifter's current form." Also, on the assensing table it says that you can determine whether Essence AND magic are higher, lower or equal to your own, so as a mage with essence six you'd see that a shapeshifter has higher essence than you, which would be impossible for any normal human. |
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