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> Info about Tir Na Nog, Where?
Phelan Patrick
post Aug 23 2009, 12:29 PM
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I'm looking for any resource about Tir na nog. Specifically about politics and magic (path of the righ). What books, online resource, etc... should i be looking for.


thanks
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Rasumichin
post Aug 23 2009, 12:47 PM
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There's an old SR2 sourcebook about the nation, which is probably available as a PDF by now, not certain about that.
If not, you may have to sift through your FLGS's used books bin or check ebay.
Sadly, i do not have my copy anymore, but from memory, it includes a lot of stuff about path magic and the associated metaphysical concepts.
It also focusses strongly on the political aspects of the setting, but is written in a deliberately subjective style (which is intentional, the narrator is a dissident elven noble).
It was definitely less concerned with the SR/ED crossover than the Tir Tairngire sourcebook.

There's probably also information in Shadows of Europe, an out of print SR3 product.
I haven't ever taken a look at that book (missed most of SR3), but i'm fairly certain that it's both a little more up to date and a lot shorter than the SR2 material.

Until now, there's no sourcebooks dealing with that issue in SR4.
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knasser
post Aug 23 2009, 12:48 PM
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QUOTE (Phelan Patrick @ Aug 23 2009, 01:29 PM) *
I'm looking for any resource about Tir na nog. Specifically about politics and magic (path of the righ). What books, online resource, etc... should i be looking for.

thanks


The Tir Nan N贸g source book is available pretty cheaply as a PDF from http://www.DriveThruRpg.com. That will give you a lot of the earlier history. Shadows of Europe gives you a lot more of an up to date version. Unfortunately, despite SoE being one of the best source books for Shadowrun that's ever been published, it still hasn't been released as a PDF. Presumably the forthcoming Sixth World Almanac will have some information on it also, but probably no-one knows when that's coming out.

Synopsis from memory: A much higher incidence of elven births in the former Ireland than in the rest of the world. The land surrounded by a magical misty veil that only certain people can pass through or at certain times and places. General disgust at the Catholic church following a previous pope's renunciation of metahumans leading to a general falling from grace of that religion (very sorry - couldn't resist the phrasing). A government heavily elven, a mysterious "Seelie Court" in the background. An even more mysterious "Unseelie Court". Various fey creatures seemingly neither spirit nor paracritter / metahuman. A religious / philosophical framework called the Path of the Wheel that teaches how people reincarnate through life after life until they reach elf-hood and go through exclusive life paths such as warrior, bard or king.

All very odd. First Edition: "Wouldn't it be Cool" 'ness headbutting 3rd / 4th "Let's try and make this realistic again" 'ness. My advice is watch re-runs of Father Ted and then add elves.

K.
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Phelan Patrick
post Aug 23 2009, 12:58 PM
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i'll try looking for those books then. i'll see of any of my old gaming buddy's ever got copies of those books.

thanks btw
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FlakJacket
post Aug 23 2009, 03:56 PM
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QUOTE (knasser @ Aug 23 2009, 01:48 PM) *
The Tir Nan N贸g source book is available pretty cheaply as a PDF from http://www.DriveThruRpg.com. That will give you a lot of the earlier history.
If you do go the .pdf route might I recommend buying it direct from the BattleCorps Battleshop which is owned by the same folks as Catalyst, I forget what the exact relationship is.
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the_real_elwood
post Aug 23 2009, 04:20 PM
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The Tir na Nog sourcebook also has a lot of information about the Tir's Ways and Paths magic. If you need information on it, that's the book to get. Shadows of Europe has some information on Tir na Nog and its magic as well.
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tarbrush
post Aug 23 2009, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE (knasser @ Aug 23 2009, 07:48 AM) *
My advice is watch re-runs of Father Ted and then add elves.

You may find that drinking heavily whilst doing the above helps considerably.
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Critias
post Aug 23 2009, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE (knasser @ Aug 23 2009, 08:48 AM) *
All very odd. First Edition: "Wouldn't it be Cool" 'ness headbutting 3rd / 4th "Let's try and make this realistic again" 'ness.

Which is hardly unique to this particular sourcebook/setting, though. I sometimes wonder how much more fun we, as gamers, would have if we'd just shut up and worry about the Rule of Cool again, instead of insisting that the setting make sense, even while we whine all day bemoaning the long-lost sourcebooks of SR1.

We bring it on ourselves, I think.
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knasser
post Aug 23 2009, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE (tarbrush @ Aug 23 2009, 07:36 PM) *
You may find that drinking heavily whilst doing the above helps considerably.


Hmmmm. Does this comment mean that you do like Father Ted, or that you don't? I can't work it out. But I used to watch the series when I was a teenager and enjoyed it and Ireland is forever more associated with it in my mind. Few things that harmless and inoffensive are still funny.

K.
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ShaunClinton
post Aug 24 2009, 12:04 AM
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I wouldn't buy Shadows of Europe for information on Tir Nan N贸g as it has practically none. In fact, it has about three times as much information on the terminally uninteresting Portugal than it has on one of the unusual 6th world nations. SoE sucked.
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FlakJacket
post Aug 24 2009, 12:42 AM
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QUOTE (knasser @ Aug 23 2009, 01:48 PM) *
All very odd. First Edition: "Wouldn't it be Cool" 'ness headbutting 3rd / 4th "Let's try and make this realistic again" 'ness.

Well when writing the authors were constrained by what had been published in the past, the rampant wouldn't it be cool-ness courtesy of Sargent and Gascoigne, so they had to work around things a bit. But yeah IIRC 0one of Peter's aims was to try and reconcile some of the more outrageous sections and ground it in 'reality' a bit more. Well you know what I mean by reality. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE (ShaunClinton @ Aug 24 2009, 01:04 AM) *
I wouldn't buy Shadows of Europe for information on Tir Nan N骻 as it has practically none. In fact, it has about three times as much information on the terminally uninteresting Portugal than it has on one of the unusual 6th world nations. SoE sucked.

I think it would be more fair to say that you personally didn't like the book, apparently because it didn't deliver the amount of information you were expecting on Tir Na nOg. To write off the whole book as having 'sucked' I think does it a rather large disservice since there were also a large number of people who liked it quite a lot. As for the word count disparity you have to look at it from the writes point of view. Tir Na nOg had a whole sourcebook devoted to it whilst Portugal had until that point almost nothing written about it, it makes more sense to simply cover the basics and update it a bit rather than retread old ground whilst trying to fit in as much new information about Portugal. At least that's what I would guess happened, you'd have to talk to Peter and Rob since they were lead writer and line developer respectively at the time and I don't want to put words in people's mouths.
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knasser
post Aug 24 2009, 06:47 AM
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QUOTE (ShaunClinton @ Aug 24 2009, 01:04 AM) *
I wouldn't buy Shadows of Europe for information on Tir Nan N贸g as it has practically none. In fact, it has about three times as much information on the terminally uninteresting Portugal than it has on one of the unusual 6th world nations. SoE sucked.


Wow! SoE is one of the most interesting and information dense source books ever published for Shadowrun in any edition. And it's very well written. I don't have a problem with someone else not liking it, but I'm seriously wondering what exactly you wanted from it that it didn't provide? The only thing it doesn't have is lots of NPCs or rule mechanics. Neither of which were the intention of the book.

K.
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tarbrush
post Aug 24 2009, 10:09 AM
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QUOTE (knasser @ Aug 23 2009, 04:08 PM) *
Hmmmm. Does this comment mean that you do like Father Ted, or that you don't? I can't work it out. But I used to watch the series when I was a teenager and enjoyed it and Ireland is forever more associated with it in my mind. Few things that harmless and inoffensive are still funny.

K.



I love Father Ted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I wouldn't exactly describe it as inoffensive though.
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ShaunClinton
post Aug 24 2009, 02:38 PM
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Knasser & FlackJacket: I suppose mileage varies from person to person but for me SoE just wasn't a good book. I couldn't go into specific detail in depth at the moment (and realise that even doing so I'm unlikely to change your minds! If you liked it then fair play, I'm glad someone got some use out of it!) However the main things I remember about it: I didn't enjoy reading it, I felt most of the new concepts/material it introduced added little to the world and it was (for me) focused on fairly uninteresting locales (I might be totally off-base here, but I remember at the time wondering if the authors lived in or just loved some locations that had page count lavished on them.) There aren't many SR books that I haven't enjoyed in some shape or form and even the poorer quality ones have ideas/concepts which have excited me.

Father Ted, on the other hand, is absolutely ace! Drink! Girls! Feck!
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knasser
post Aug 24 2009, 08:37 PM
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Well people like Father Ted here, that's the main thing.

I have the books. I obviously can't reproduce lots of text, but if there are any few specific questions I can help with, I'll check the facts.

You said that you were specifically looking for information on the Path of the Righ and politics. The actual magical tradition of the Path of the Wheel for 4th edition is detailed in Street Magic. It's pretty sparse. There are five paths in the Path of the Wheel. These are Warrior, Steward (business people), Bard (musicians, media and entertainment), Druid (magicians and scholars) and Righ (kings), aka Order of the Sun, Moon and Stars. Spiritually speaking, it is above the other four paths and has seniority over them. The members of the Path of the Righ are at the heart of Tir Na N贸g politics and membership is by invitation only. The most influential elven families have members in it.

Beyond this, there is also the government behind government, the Seelie Court. Details on this are sparse. It may not even exist except in the metaplanes. Influential elven families have a lot of power throughout life in the Tir, including corporations there.

I hope this is of use.

Khadim.

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Phelan Patrick
post Aug 24 2009, 10:58 PM
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Khadim,
thanks for the info. I managed to get a copy of Tir na Nog (what do you know, an old highschool friend had it in storage and brought it out when i asked if he had it).

I'm trying to build a powerful NPC that I want to use re-occurringly. Someone high up in Tir Na Nog Politics and a power ful mage to boot. Thats why i needed info on their Politics and Path of the Righ.

I'm reading through the game info about the PotR and the whole Path of the wheel. Trying to make up a good conversion into SR4 rules.

Can anyone who also have the book give me some ideas on how to convert it to SR4? Right now i'm just basically doing basic and direct conversion (ex.+1 bonus modifier =+1 dicepool modifier)
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