 Killing hands and Adepts, Questions on new-age Ninjas |
  |
 Jan 28 2004, 08:44 PM
Post
#51
|
|||||
|
Grand Master of Run-Fu  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178  |
Yeah, but it's not illegal to be an adept. And if said adept initiaties and gets Masking, he's invulnerable to casual assensing attempts. In a high-traffic area, with lots of people going in and out, the adept won't get more than a cursory astral scan unless he really stands out.
Adept pulls out well-faked SIN and other permits. Sec guard looks at the orders, decides he's not being paid enough to question orders, and goes away. All you need are good fake orders. You could have an otaku show up with good papers, and Joe Rent-a-cop will follow along. In fact, an otaku (with a higher charisma) is more likely to convince Joe that he can wait until later to call and confirm the orders. |
||||
 |
 
|
||||
|
Jan 28 2004, 10:22 PM
Post
#52
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 302 Joined: 20-October 03 Member No.: 5,740 |
This just reminds me of when my Otaku (12 years old) posed as a student from a corp school shadowing someone. ^_^ ...of course, that was the Run from Hell, sooo.. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 29 2004, 12:34 AM
Post
#53
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
A minor detail. You convinced them enough that they were trying to avoid hitting you at first.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Jan 29 2004, 01:17 AM
Post
#54
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 302 Joined: 20-October 03 Member No.: 5,740 |
And I actually wasn't killed! Yay! Did you roll perception to see if the NPC's noticed that the kid had a datajack? ^_~ |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 29 2004, 01:55 AM
Post
#55
|
|||||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,458 Joined: 22-March 03 From: I am a figment of my own imagination. Member No.: 4,302 |
First set, yeah, Adept'd be pulled aside... but that's asuming there even is a mage actively assensing persons passing. Second Adept, the Expirienced one, has Masking... so Mr. Assensing Mage'd have a tougher time picking him up, while cyber scanners'd still pick up Mr. Sammie...
And any reasonable SecMan would go "who the frag is Mr. Johnson?" as that's a psued used for quasi-legal activities, not corp terminology... plus permit or not, he calls his CO for instructions, and the second the Sammie lays a hand on him he gets red flagged... plus the mage on duty gives the rasberry to the Sammie, who has no authority over him, and would be showing great ignorance by thinking he could relieve awakened support... The adept is never unarmed. While the Sammie has to rely on technology for lethal combat (be it a gun, sword, spur, etc), the Adept merely uses his body. Guns aren't the end all and be all of combat. Not to mention having guns in the first place flags one as a security risk. The object, as you seem to have missed it, was to -pass through- the security checkpoint undetected, not draw an arseload of attention to oneself. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 29 2004, 01:59 AM
Post
#56
|
|||||
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Given that for most of the applicable time you were face-down over Yves' shoulder, no. ~J |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 29 2004, 04:42 AM
Post
#57
|
|||||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 400 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 825 |
In a bodyguard that's supposed to look like a bodyguard? Hells yes. Nothing says "I'll mess your shit up" like a shiny metal hand. Besides, there's just so many surprises that you can put into them.
Dermal armor is actually something that I think is one of the least socially acceptable ware, at least for most of the races. The only person who's supposed to look like a troll with a bad case of dermititis is an actual troll with a bad case of dermitis. Datajacks are, IMO, common enough as to be almost completely beneath notice.
Or blued, or swirly, or leopard spotted...whatever. I just think that obvious eyes are another effective (yet generally acceptable) way to say "I've got metal, so don't screw with this guy I'm standing behind." |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Jan 29 2004, 06:35 AM
Post
#58
|
|||||||||||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
As a PC option? I've aways found them to be overpriced and not enough return on investment.
Unless, of course, you're a bodyguard and aren't nearly as expendable as the armor jacket you're wearing.
That's a matter of interpretation, I suppose. It's flamboyant and draws unwanted attention to you and possibly the person you're guarding. Some employers may prefer a bodyguard that doesn't draw more attention than absolutely necessary. And if you're guarding a conservative suit, he (or she) may not appreciate such gaudy fashion accessories. It would be like showing up to a corporate board meeting with an earring in some companies. -Siege |
||||||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||||||
|
Jan 29 2004, 07:29 AM
Post
#59
|
|||||||||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
In one breath you advocate Dermal Armor which, as was said, is close to one of the least socially acceptable implants, and in the next you denegrate obvious cybereyes as attracting too much attention. In my opinion, people would react less favorably towards the dude with the Dermal than they would to the guy with leopard spot eyes. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Jan 29 2004, 07:46 AM
Post
#60
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Why is that, though? Personally, my skin (followed perhaps by bones) would be the first thing to go if cyber- and bioreplacements became available. It's just a strip of dead stuff coating me. Augmenting or replacing it completely would seem like not a big deal to me. Dermal Armor is described "anything but subtle" but also that it can come in any texture or color, so basically it would look just slightly misshaped. Dermal Sheaths don't seem to have any trouble in that area. So if I was talking with someone who's had his skin replaced, I wouldn't feel very funny. Just a different, better, layer of dead stuff coating him. I would definitely feel weird talking with someone who's had extremely significant parts of himself (like eyes or arms) replaced, and actually shows it off. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 29 2004, 08:07 AM
Post
#61
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I can make the same argument about almost any piece of cyberware though. There is no differentiation in canon as to cutting off your skin vs. cutting off your arm. Both supposedly incur social penalties.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 29 2004, 08:11 AM
Post
#62
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
The argument that it feels weird talking to someone who's had something replaced, or talking to someone who's showing off the fact that he's got something replaced? Because Dermal Armor (and certainly Dermal Sheath) don't show it off, but leopard spot cybereyes or shiny chrome arms certainly do. Another simple mind game to play with yourself: Consider how bad you feel when you see skin cut up/ripped/burnt/whatever. Consider how bad you feel when you see a whole arm cut up/ripped/burnt/whatever. Consider how bad you feel when you see someone's eyes cut up/ripped/burnt. Skin is simply not that important a part to a human being, we're not that attached to it. :)
With that in mind, the earlier argument that "Dermal Armor [...] is close to one of the least socially acceptable implants" is not very well founded. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 29 2004, 02:01 PM
Post
#63
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
I'd say that dermal armor would be as noticeable as an obvious cyberlimb. Dermal armor is probably also incredibly uncomfortable to non-trolls. Wether dermal sheaths are actually common in your games is up-to you but I doubt many high-class body-guard types would, favouring dermal sheaths if anything. Then-again, most bodyguards in my games are expected to go everywhere with the suit and the sort of upper-class establishment which might reject someone for not wearing tres-chic clothes would also look-down upon a bodyguard with obvious and/or intimidating 'ware that might disconcert the other patrons.
Leapord-spotted eyes would also be looked-down upon under corp circles as breaks from the standard "uniform" corp look. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 29 2004, 02:22 PM
Post
#64
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Dermal plate used to be the only option for bodyguards.
Now with dermal sheathing, it's probably the more common choice, certainly over dermal armor. That being said, dermal sheathing is easily concealable in an acceptable fashion -- the majority of it covered by a suit jacket and pants. Cybereyes could easily be concealed by sunglasses, but some people will look at a character oddly if he's wearing sunglasses indoors at the corporate HQ. Trust me on that one. Fortune: as to socially acceptable, in a corporate setting dermal protection is more easily concealed and even if it's noticed, it's classified as a datajack -- something integral to work and considered as such. Compare that to something exotic and decidedly personalized like leopard spot eyes. Now, if you're looking for style points on the local club set, you'll get more points for the leopard eyes moreso than the dermal armor. -Siege |
|
|
|
|
Jan 29 2004, 02:37 PM
Post
#65
|
|||||
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
It has to be said that they don't need dermal cyberware to be a bodyguard. It increases your survivability, but not getting anything installed dermally would probably be the first choice for a bodyguard working in the corporate sector. When the choice is between X fully-trained bodyguard with dermal srmor, and Y fully-trained bodyguard that won't be separated from you every time you eat in a restaurant, I'd choose bodyguard Y.
Dermal sheathing is probably hard to notice, AFAIK Dermal plating covers your face/neck which would be quite obvious. I'll need to check my books on that when I get home though.
|
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 29 2004, 02:46 PM
Post
#66
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
You don't _need_ dermal protection to be a bodyguard, however:
Bodyguard A is down and expiring messily while Bodyguard B is hustling his employer to safety while absorbing gunfire. Wanna guess which one has dermal protection? -Siege |
|
|
|
|
Jan 29 2004, 03:04 PM
Post
#67
|
|||
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
The guard without dermal armour can't absorb gunfire that much more effectively than the one without it. Also: consider what else the guard without dermal plating would have bought/had installed with the money saved on dermal dermal plating, and gained from the extra hours with the suit in tres-chic areas.
I'd guess that the one that went down was the one with dermal armour as the one without dermal armour may have bone-lacing, muscle replacement (= quickness = combat pool for dodging/soaking), reaction boosters so he acted faster, or a higher body attribute from simply spending the dermal plating guy's surgery recovery time in the gym training. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 29 2004, 03:18 PM
Post
#68
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
He couldn't have gotten a higher Body by working out in the gym since he's not a shadowrunner and couldn't earn Karma! :grinbig:
Humor aside, if we're debating the merits of a reflex package over body protection, I'll grant you moving faster is better than not. As for the tres chic locations, if your guard is wearing the much-vaunted suit and tie, etc. how likely is the tres chic going to detect the enhancement and will they turn away a corp's bodyguard when, if he is important enough to warrant one, does the tres chic restaraunt want to alienate portions of the select clientele they're aiming for? -Siege |
|
|
|
|
Jan 29 2004, 05:00 PM
Post
#69
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 400 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 825 |
Dude, Dermal Amor consists of big, lumpy metal and plastic plates bonded to someone's skin (it is not a skin replacement). How is that less obvious and 'creepy' than someone with spotted eyes? And incidentally, your skin is certainly not dead. It is a fully functioning organ.
Orthoskin and bone lacing. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 29 2004, 05:15 PM
Post
#70
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Dude, I know what it consists of, but it's not showing it off unless you color it purple or make distinct shapes out of it. Someone simply having cybereyes is very, very different from having leopard spotted cybereyes. Same for a concealable cyberarm vs a polished chromium cyberarm. The topmost layers of skin, which is what you usually look at, is mostly dead. The bottom layers are of course alive, so that more skin can be produced all the time. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 29 2004, 07:40 PM
Post
#71
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Back on topic (sort-of) how do people think Adepts compare to Sammies at bodyguarding? There's no chance of offensive 'ware and you could possibly take voluntary geases on powers, saying that you can only use them in the defense of another. The Talisman Geas would also be a snich as you are very rarely going to be asked to bodyguard without gear.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 29 2004, 09:05 PM
Post
#72
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 2,034 |
The emotion sensing, and quick strike (or whatever it is called) powers would be very good for a bodyguard. Astra perception and a weapon focus would also put them in great demand.
Also physads just recently became significantly stronger with the half magic loss from bioware thing. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 30 2004, 05:27 AM
Post
#73
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 400 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 825 |
Well, sure; because no one knows they're there in the first instances, and thus are kind of difficult to figure into whether or not they're socially acceptable. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 31 2004, 01:14 AM
Post
#74
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 975 |
Okay... this is my attempt to see if this is too cheezy. Say I have an adept. I get him a cyber arm so I can fill it with all sorts of goodies. Can I the make that cyberarm his talisman?
Let the flames begin. -Czar Eggbert Commin out of my Shell |
|
|
|
|
Jan 31 2004, 05:49 AM
Post
#75
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: 15-April 03 From: My own personal purgatory Member No.: 4,453 |
No, because, having been paid for with Essence, the cyberarm is considered part of his body (assuming he's had it implanted, and he's not just carrying it around in his backpack - in which case it would be perfectly valid, though strange. :) ) It would be like trying to count your fingernails as a talisman. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 22nd November 2025 - 11:15 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.