Bows, rules clarification Options

[Phelan Patrick]

Here's what it says on SR4A

Bows have minimum Strength ratings that indicate the minimum
Strength a character must have to use that weapon. When attacking
with a bow, a character whose Strength is less than the Strength minimum
suffers a –2 dice pool modifier per point below the minimum;
this penalty reflects the difficulty they have in pulling the bow and
nocking an arrow. The weapon’s minimum Strength rating is also used
to determine the weapon’s range and damage. Material science limits
high-tech bows to a maximum Strength rating of 12. The maximum
Damage Value an arrow fired from the bow can inflict is equal to the
bow’s rating x1.5.

1. So lets say I have a bow with min STR 6 and my character has STR 8 then damaged is computed with (6+2)P or (8+2)P?

2. How does the last sentence apply? Does it mean that no matter how many net hits I get I cant go over bow's damage x1.5? say DV is 6, max damage I can do is 9P? And when it says bow's Rating is it the Min STR or base damage value?

[mmmkay]

1. (6+2)P, no matter how strong you are the bow is actually firing the projectile so effective strength is MIN(arrow rating, bow rating, strength)
2. in your example 9P is the maximum possible damage done by the bow, bow's rating is MIN STR, which has been changed to a max of 8 in the errata instead of the 12 mentioned in your quote

[Phelan Patrick]

arrows have ratings? please elaborate.



thanks

[McCummhail]

The Strength rating on bows has been capped at 8. Arrow cost
has been raised to [Rating x 5]. Th e base damage value done by an
arrow is the lower of the arrow’s or bow’s rating.

Unfortunately, I don't have an updated copy of SR4A, but the changes are in the document quoted which is available for free on the main SR site.
It is slightly more cornfusing than I prefer.

[McAllister]

arrows have ratings? please elaborate.



thanks

If you're referring to the quote McCummHail posted, I think the cost of the arrow is dependent on the rating of the bow that shoots it. I.e. a bow designed for a STR 10 troll shoots different (and more expensive) arrows than the STR 3 elf-bow.

[TeOdio]

Yep. Finally got my Hard Copy, and it's much clearer than the rules pdf. The arrows are bought specifically for the bows (Not a bow hunter so I am not sure if there is a real life analog to pull strength and types of arrows but I have always imagined trolls using guide wire for their high strength bows and firing small tree trunks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif) )
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

[Kerenshara]

Yep. Finally got my Hard Copy, and it's much clearer than the rules pdf. The arrows are bought specifically for the bows (Not a bow hunter so I am not sure if there is a real life analog to pull strength and types of arrows but I have always imagined trolls using guide wire for their high strength bows and firing small tree trunks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif) )
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

Technically, no, but there WAS a very cool episode of Weapon Masters where they discovered when you get above a certain "pull" on a bow, you start to do unfortunate things to the arrow/quarrel when you shoot it if it's not of the right material. Think "bent on firing". I'd say STRength 8 is well and gone above "normal" dontcha think?

*grin*

[ZeroPoint]

[Disclaimer: The following is not necessarily a statement of fact. This is knowledge gained years ago from my time bow hunting and I may in fact be remembering incorrectly.]

While not necessarily tied to pull strength, more the bow type, you do need specific types of arrows in modern bow hunting. For example, because of the way traditional bows or recurve bows release (which is at a smoother rate of acceleration, as opposed to compound bows which have a higher rate of acceleration when released), wooden arrows tend to be proffered with traditional bows. When fired, they will actually bend, fletching to point, to the point where you would think it should break, then straightens out as its fired. If you fire a wooden arrow from most higher pull compound bows, don't be surprised if it breaks in half as its being fired. This is why you only fire arrows made with materials like aluminum, carbon fiber, or composite materials.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

[Disclaimer: The following is not necessarily a statement of fact. This is knowledge gained years ago from my time bow hunting and I may in fact be remembering incorrectly.]

While not necessarily tied to pull strength, more the bow type, you do need specific types of arrows in modern bow hunting. For example, because of the way traditional bows or recurve bows release (which is at a smoother rate of acceleration, as opposed to compound bows which have a higher rate of acceleration when released), wooden arrows tend to be proffered with traditional bows. When fired, they will actually bend, fletching to point, to the point where you would think it should break, then straightens out as its fired. If you fire a wooden arrow from most higher pull compound bows, don't be surprised if it breaks in half as its being fired. This is why you only fire arrows made with materials like aluminum, carbon fiber, or composite materials.

Tis True... Have broken many a wooden arrow from a Compound Bow... back in my younger days...

[Shinobi Killfist]

1. (6+2)P, no matter how strong you are the bow is actually firing the projectile so effective strength is MIN(arrow rating, bow rating, strength)
2. in your example 9P is the maximum possible damage done by the bow, bow's rating is MIN STR, which has been changed to a max of 8 in the errata instead of the 12 mentioned in your quote

If they were going to Fix?? there Fix, why didn't they just standardize it to other muscle powered weapons and make it str/2+X with no cap.

[Wiggles Von Beer...]

Although I never played Shadowrun before 4th edition, there apparently used to be several troll-bow builds that could put arrows through vehicles. Hence the cap.

[ZeroPoint]

Although I never played Shadowrun before 4th edition, there apparently used to be several troll-bow builds that could put arrows through vehicles. Hence the cap.

Most of that was due to the way Bows were designed with a damage code of (strenth Min +2). Being that they could be made with a strength min of 12(or higher?), their damage value would have been 14. The Panther Autocannon has a damage code of 10P for comparison.

As another poster stated, if they had kept it in line with how melee weapons were calculated then there never would have been a problem. Melee weapon damage goes up at a scale of 1 point of damage per 2 points of strength, whereas bow damage goes up at a rate of 1 damage per 1 point of strength...double the rate. So you tell me which gets a better return on damage from strength.