Rigger Question, "Jumping in" |
Rigger Question, "Jumping in" |
Aug 27 2009, 04:37 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 689 Joined: 16-September 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 5,623 |
Have a new player who wants to do rigging and so far we have been kinda lite on it. So I wanted to double check a couple of the rules. The primary point I want to check is when he "jump's" into a drone it says he is using his skills but the drones physical stats. Then it says that when the rigger is jumped in the drone and he use his initiative but does not say anything about IP. The player finds this a little odd as if he just gives orders to the drone it gets 3 IP. My understanding is that the normal way to increase IP (Cyber or Bioware) does not trasnfer to the Matrix.
And yes, I need to buy "Unwired" which I know may answer this. |
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Aug 27 2009, 04:41 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626 |
Well, Unwired will give you nice big DP examples, and ways for your rigger to get more IPs while rigged (along with Aug). Anyway, if he jumps in he gets his matrix IP. Which in Cold Sim is 2 IPs (w/out 'ware/submersion) or 3 in Hot Sim. But remember that in Hot Sim he will take real damage if the drone does.
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Aug 27 2009, 07:15 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 689 Joined: 16-September 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 5,623 |
Kinda figured I needed to pick up unwireed. I have Augmentation but what increases the IP for a Rigger in there?
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Aug 27 2009, 07:35 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 155 Joined: 20-August 09 From: Fridley, MN, USA Member No.: 17,522 |
There's a cyberware Simsense Booster on p. 37 of Augmentation, which boosts the jumped-in rigger's IPs to 3 in cold sim or 4 in hot sim.
EDIT: The only piece of gear in Unwired that boosts IP in this case is the Simsense Accelerator on p. 198, which adds 1 extra IP in hot sim only, and stacks with the Simsense Booster implant. Overall, this would bring a jumped-in rigger to 3 IPs cold sim or 5 hot sim (since Simsense Accelerator explicitly allows breaking the 4 IP cap that most other characters have). |
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Aug 27 2009, 08:08 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,228 Joined: 24-July 07 From: Canada Member No.: 12,350 |
While Jumped In the Rigger gets his Matrix IP's.
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Aug 27 2009, 09:42 PM
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#6
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
You want really abusive cheese?
Technomancer with 5 IP jumped in, a sprite, and an Agent all subscribed to the same drone and commanding it to shoot. You can run the drone out of ammo fast. |
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Aug 27 2009, 09:47 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 209 Joined: 7-June 09 Member No.: 17,251 |
You want really abusive cheese? Technomancer with 5 IP jumped in, a sprite, and an Agent all subscribed to the same drone and commanding it to shoot. You can run the drone out of ammo fast. If that actually works, why limit yourself to one sprite and one agent? Besides, I don't think it does: QUOTE ('SR4A p.245') A drone controlled in this manner acts on the rigger’s Initiative— the rigger and the drone are treated as a single unit. Any tests are made using the rigger’s skills and the drone’s attributes (substituting Response for Agility and Reaction and Sensor for Intuition). I don't see any room in there for commands from a third (or fourth) party. Consider: - The drone acts on the jumped-in character's Initiative. - They're treated as a single unit. - Any tests are made using the jumped-in character's skills. So how would commands from an outside source work in this situation? When would the drone carry them out, and with what dice pool? |
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Aug 28 2009, 12:12 AM
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#8
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Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,283 Joined: 12-October 07 Member No.: 13,662 |
They don't... the drone stops responding to external commands once it's jumped into.
The sprite and agent can provide security for the node (defend the rigger against being attacked, attack intruders into the node). But they can't control the node is my understanding. And I'd balk at anyone claiming more than oner person can 'man the gun' at a given time. (stop and think, we have 2 joysticks/mice, they both control the same gun... good luck aiming and firing it at the same time!). Read "Game-Set-Match" on p212 of SR4a. Nice little short story w/ a good primer on hacking, spoofing, remote control of a drone. It's the short story which precedes the matrix chapter. Also remember the rigger MUST spend one complex action per combat turn to do a pilot check to control the drone, or it crashes. So even if he has all the bits to give him 5 matrix passes, he'll still only get 4 meat passes to shoot things. So to use the basic example (you really don't need Unwired, though it is nice), Rigger is in hotsim... he can take damage as his drone takes damage. He gets 3 passes... 2 of which will be used for combat actions, 1 of which will be used to control the drone (or exit the drone and place it back under autopilot control). If he were to issue a command to a drone as a simple action and let the autopilot/agent carry it out, it would get 3 passes as well, again, one to control drone 2 to attack/do whatever. Also keep in mind, autosofts are special programs used by autopilots (not agents) to use their weaponry. |
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Aug 28 2009, 12:12 AM
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#9
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Note that the quoted text doesn't restrict the drone from acting under another subscribed user command, and the only other restriction is that only one person can be jumped in at a time. Another scenario is the Rigger not being jumped in, and the same basic situation of an Agent, Sprite, and Rigger all giving the same drone commands via Remote Control.
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Aug 28 2009, 12:20 AM
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#10
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Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,283 Joined: 12-October 07 Member No.: 13,662 |
Again a no no, while all three could 'issue commands' to the drones autopilot... and then the doggy brain follows whichever one has priority (or came last).
I call BS on the last part... using the "Remote Control" action is just like playing a FPS video game like quake, you're manually assuming full control of the drone. You're arguing that 3 seperate items can play the exact same avatar in a game of quake at the exact same time. That's why I call BS. You have 3 mice & keyboards driving the unit simultaneously. While possible... I don't see anything usefull coming out of it! (as one tries to turn the gun to the left, the other tries to point it up, etc... and all 3 can't fire and aim the same gun at the same time). At the very best, all 3 trying to use the same unit at the same time would inflict a hefty dicepool penalty on any actions any one of them would attempt. While each item in the pass is resolved seperately... they're still in 'reality' executing simultaneous control of the drone. At best it's a fun exercise in theory crafting. But, I believe any sane GM would smack the player upside the head with something large and blunt (like the old BBB now that we got a new shiny one). |
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Aug 28 2009, 12:30 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 209 Joined: 7-June 09 Member No.: 17,251 |
Note that the quoted text doesn't restrict the drone from acting under another subscribed user command, and the only other restriction is that only one person can be jumped in at a time. Then what would be the answers to the questions I posted above? How would it actually work in terms of initiative, dice pools, etc.? If this is feasible you must have answers, right? |
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Aug 28 2009, 12:39 AM
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#12
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
While using remote control, the drone pilot is not involved. The test is Command + Skill.
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Aug 28 2009, 12:41 AM
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#13
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
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Aug 28 2009, 01:40 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 509 Joined: 16-June 09 Member No.: 17,282 |
One comment, Falconer. I can see a perfect application for the agent/sprite/rigger set-up; a drone with three different guns on it. It would be like the sweetest co-op shooter ever.
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Aug 28 2009, 01:57 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 209 Joined: 7-June 09 Member No.: 17,251 |
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Aug 28 2009, 02:27 PM
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#16
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
I think he meant when you command a drone to perform an action it acts on the commander's intiative, toolbox. But, to be honest, I've lost track of who's talking about jumped-in actions and who's talking about remote ones.
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Aug 28 2009, 02:50 PM
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#17
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
This takes care of the being jumped in and taking Remote Control at the same time.
p. 246 SR4A Hacking and Spoofing "A jumped-in rigger overrides any other control of the drone, including by its Pilot." But for multiple remote Control of the same drone, p. 245 SR4A Remote Control "You may control only one drone at a time, and must have an active subscription to that drone." This puts a cap on how many drones an operator can control, but not on how many different people can operate the same drone. Some scenarios to consider. What if you use AR, have 4 IP, and run two command programs, each subscribed to a different drone? You can subscribe to different nodes, can you multiple subscribe to the same node? Can you then subcribe to the drone multiple times with different command programs? |
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Aug 28 2009, 05:49 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 689 Joined: 16-September 03 From: Colorado Member No.: 5,623 |
That makes a lot more sense than what I got out of the prime book. Thanks for the info
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Aug 28 2009, 05:53 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 209 Joined: 7-June 09 Member No.: 17,251 |
I think he meant when you command a drone to perform an action it acts on the commander's intiative, toolbox. Yeah, I know. I was saying that by RAW, if someone's jumped into a drone it acts on his initiative, not anybody else's. So even if other users could command it in that state (which DireRadiant himself just proved doesn't work), the drone would have no opportunity to carry out their commands. It's moot now, though. |
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Aug 28 2009, 07:37 PM
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#20
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
There's still the case where multiple people all subscribe to the same drone and do Remote Control.
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