Gunslinger Adept, Critique Again! Options

[DarkKindness]

It's that time of day again - another character to critique! This time it's a Gunslinger Adept specializing in Pistols...

[ Spoiler ]

Human: 0

Attributes: 260
Bod 3, Agi 5 (7), Rea 4 (6), Str 3, Cha 3, Int 4, Log 3, Wis 3, Edge 4, Magic 5 (4)

Skills: 122
Armorer (Firearms) 1 (+2)
Athletics Skill Group 3
Dodge 4
Etiquette (Street) 2 (+2)
Infiltration (Urban) 2 (+2)
Palming 1
Perception 4
Pilot Ground Craft (Motorcycles) 1 (+2)
Pistols 6 (9)

Knowledge Skills: 21 free points
Action Trids 4
Firearms Design 4
Firearms History 4
Lone Star Procedures 3
Triad Politics 3

Language Skills:
English N
Chinese 3

Qualities: +15
Adept 5
Ambidextrous 5
Martial Arts: Firefight 10
- -2 Attacker in Melee Penalty
Enemy (Triad) +15
Lost Loved One +5
SINner +5
Wanted +10

Contacts: 8
Fixer (4 Connection/1 Loyalty)
Lone Star Cadet (1 Connection/2 Loyalty)

Adept Powers:
Combat Sense 1
Improved Ability (Pistols) 2
Improved Reflexes 2



Equipment: 25
Gear & Lifestyle: Autopicker 5, Synergist Business Line Suit (Longcoat, High-Collar Shirt, Slacks, and Suit Jacket), Lined Coat, Harley Davidson Scorpion, Fake Detective License 4, Fake Driver’s License 4, Fake Gun Licenses (Colt Government 2066, Morrissey Elan, Ruger Super Warhawk, and Ares Viper Slivergun) 4, Fake SIN 4 x2, Low Lifestyle (1 month)

Weapons:
- Colt Government 2066 (w/Internal Smartgun System, Advanced Safety – Spring Trigger Spike, Skinlink, Quick Draw Holster, and 10 clips of Ex-Explosive Ammunition) x2,
- Morrissey Elan (w/Concealable Holster, Easy Breakdown – Manual, and 2 clips each of Ex-Explosive Ammunition and Stick-n-Shock Ammunition) x2,
- Ruger Super Warhawk (w/Internal Smartgun System, Advanced Safety – Spring Trigger Spike, Personalized Grip, Skinlink, Quick Draw Holster, Increased Cylinder, 3 Speedloaders, and 32 rounds of Ex-Explosive Ammunition) x2,
- Ares Viper Slivergun (w/Internal Smartgun System, Advanced Safety – Spring Trigger Spike, Skinlink, Personalized Grip, Underbarrel Weight, Quick Draw Holster, and 5 clips of Flechette Ammunition) x2


Matrix Gear: Hermes Ikon w/Mangadyne Deva OS (Res 4, Sig 3, Firewall 2, Sys 3), AR Gloves

Programs: Analyze 3, Browse 3, Command 1, Edit 3

Augmentations: Cybereyes 3 (Flare Compensation, Low Light Vision, Smartlink, Thermographic Vision, Vision Enhancement 2*, Vision Magnification), Datajack, Muscle Toner 2, Platelet Factory, Reflex Recorder (Pistols)

The idea here is that our Adept was once an aspiring Lone Star cadet whose wife/fiance (not decided yet) is missing and who he has linked to Triad activity, which was promptly swept under the rug by the Star, leading to our Adept's dropping out of the academy. His pursuit of the Triads has earned him an Enemy in one of the local branches, and has earned a bounty on his head. That said, I think that everything else is pretty focused and self-explanatory... help me make it better if it can be done!

[McAllister]

DarkKindness, did you forget his adept powers?

[DarkKindness]

Now I feel like a moron... changes incoming!

EDIT: Updated, now with more Adept POWAZ!

[McAllister]

Also, I'm going to hold off replying until I figure out what his adept powers are (I could just be blind), for the most part, but I think "Lost Loved One" is only appropriate for people who are lost as in missing, not lost as in dead. So either he believes her to still be alive (which will set him up for some serious mental disorder if he's wrong) or you're looking for another quality. Vendetta appears quite appropriate, although it implies that the cop has done something to the Yaks to draw their ire.

Also, losing his wifiancee must've been pretty traumatic. Maybe that's what Awakened him. And in that case, the Star will have an extensive record on him, but not know of his Awakening, which could be handy.

[DarkKindness]

Adept Powers are right after Contacts in the spoiler tag.

Edited the story section to reflect that the love interest is missing, and that the character does not know that she's dead (thought that's what I, as a player, am planning on). He's linked her disappearance to Triad activity, and went into a Triad meeting guns blazing in order to force them to 'fess up, which earned him their enmity and the bounty on his head.

And yes, I was planning on the loss of the love interest being the trigger for his Awakening. The Bioware is (story-wise) something that he obtained in order to gain an edge in the Lone Star academy, but is still proving useful post-Awakening.

[Marwynn]

Interesting character.

May I ask why no burst-fire pistols? The Savalette Guardian or Ruger Thunderbolt could provide you with some options. Or just mod it into a gun yourself.

[McAllister]

Let's see... lined coat! Excellent garment, except it's going to encumber you, poor little human. Try the Synergist Business Line longcoat. Not only does it give the nifty -2 concealment from flowyness, it has concealed holsters built in, and combining it with the shirt and slacks gives you 6/3 armor, which isn't too shabby.

You love that Colt Government 2066, don't you? And having seen it in so many of these builds, I've come to realize it's more bang for the buck than the beloved Predator, and with a nice clip size. That said, I'm a Ruger Super Warhawk kinda guy. Technically it's just as easy to conceal, and you're not going to find a better gun for shooting armored people that's smaller than an assault rifle. A gun-tinkerous person such as yourself will find it possible to increase the ammo capacity to 8, and you can either change the firing mode to SA or whip out two of them and, instead of splitting your dicepool, simply fire the left one with the first simple action, and the right one with the second simple action.

Of course, a variety of pistols is mandatory. The Morrissey Elan is probably the best holdout in terms of concealability, with its built-in ceramic/plasteel 3 (which isn't available as a mod at chargen). Interesting question; C/P 3 mod raises the availability of all further mods to 20F, but the Elan doesn't have it as a mod, it's just built in. Does that mean you could spend 2,700 to give it Easy Breakdown? Something to consider, I guess.

Cat's Eyes, Muscle Toner 2... why don't you just make him a goddamn elf?

Your adept powers don't add up to 4, friend of mine. .5x2 + .5x2 + 2.5 is 4.5. Improved Reflexes got cheaper, but not that much cheaper. I'd drop a level of Combat Sense, you're going to have 7 bullet-dodging dice anyway.

Unarmed Combat doesn't make the most sense for your character. Personally I'd go with Dodge (Melee) 3, because Firefight can add to melee dodge dice. Also good for when someone with a bigger gun than you opens up the FA. Wide bursts are scary, but eventually they all have to reload....

Firearms group? What the hay? Chummer, cut that crap (if, y'know, you want to). If you really must have something with a bit of range to it, take Automatics 2 or Longarms 2, but cutting the group will let you buy Pistols up to 6, which is actually very important. The maximum modified rating of a skill is the natural rating x1.5 rounded down, so if you want both Improved Ability (Pistols) 2 and Reflex Recorder (Firearms) to help, you need a natural skill of 6.

That's most of what I can think to suggest. The only other thing might be, consider getting a pistol that shoots a whole bunch of bullets at once. Since the Ruger is the king of armor-piercing and the Colt has your All-American Heavy Pistol thing down, what about the Yamaha Fubuki, or Ares Slivergun? The slivergun looks silly against hard targets, and it's not a good choice there, but when you find that unarmored ghoul, hellhound or small child which just needs to get messily killed right now, the slivergun is your friend.

[Falconer]

Unarmed works well w/ an adept... clubs also work (pistol-whipping).

I don't understand your reasoning behind the bioware group.
The massive amount of synthacardium, you'd probably be better off with enhanced articulation (+1 to all physical skills including firearms, vs. +3 to athletics only). Costs roughly the same, including the .3 essence vs 3x.1 essence.

Also, the use of cat's eyes probably don't help much. (there is a 5BP quality which will give you natural low-light vision in runner's companion w/o the essence hit). Either that or I'd suggest going with cybereyes/ears which you can get at half-essence w/ the amount of bioware you have. While building in a lot of natural vision enhancements and things like smartlink/imagelink, flare guard.

You could replace your magical initiative enhancer w/ synaptic boosters 2, only problem is it's hard to enhance them later (though spending edge for an extra pass also works).

Generally, I don't recommend getting specializations in chargen. If you get 6-8 karma off your first run... that's enough to specialize 3-4 skills right there! I'd put the savings towards actually raising your unarmed from 3->4 (+2 vs +1 more... w/ +2 more to come later), and something else.

You lack any stealth skill that I can see. That's a big one. And it works well w/ your high agility.

Another thing to keep in mind, is if you're looking to be a kickass motorcyclist. The actual dodge skill works w/ vehicle driving (as well as ranged and melee full defense), while the other options don't.


McAllister:
Adepts can easily add melee combat enhancements later w/ power points... so I think unarmed works well for him. I just can't see a big reason for gymnastics over dodge outside of the bioware.

Also with his bioware his magic has dropped from 5->4.
I don't think he realizes... that combat skills cost double for improved ability. .5 per rank for pistols as opposed to .25/rank for technical adepts using non-combat skills.

[McAllister]

Does Enhanced Articulation help Combat skills like Pistols? I thought it was only Physical skills.

Unarmed works well, it's true, but why throw 10 BP into Firefight if you're not going to stick a gun in some slotter's face and shoot his skull a nice new skylight?

[Glyph]

A lined coat actually wouldn't encumber someone with a Body of 3, but only if you don't combine it with any other ballistic armor. I usually get Body of at least 4, so I can combine that lined coat with a half-suit of form-fitting body armor. Enhanced articulation does not add to combat skills such as firearms (it did in SR3, making it everyone's must-have item).

I agree that cybereyes (which can have a smartlink and a full complement of other goodies) would be much better than the cat's eyes bioware. Your character has nearly everything else he needs, but stealth skills are missing. Infiltration, he could default on if needed, but the palming skill is good for anyone trying to hide a weapon.

The firearms skill group makes him less effective (they are correct that a skill can only be boosted to skill x 1.5, so actually, one of your points in improved pistols would both make the build legal, and bring you down to 4 power points again). This is balanced by getting all of your firearms skills at the start, instead of later, so it's a valid strategy for long-term character development. However, you only have a pistol! What's the point of being able to use a sniper rifle, submachine gun, or shotgun if you don't have any of those weapons?

[McAllister]

A lined coat actually wouldn't encumber someone with a Body of 3, but only if you don't combine it with any other ballistic armor. I usually get Body of at least 4, so I can combine that lined coat with a half-suit of form-fitting body armor. Enhanced articulation does not add to combat skills such as firearms (it did in SR3, making it everyone's must-have item).

Lined coat, armor jacket, what's the difference? Two points of armor, apparently. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Thank you for the correction.

[DarkKindness]

Let's see... lined coat! Excellent garment, except it's going to encumber you, poor little human. Try the Synergist Business Line longcoat. Not only does it give the nifty -2 concealment from flowyness, it has concealed holsters built in, and combining it with the shirt and slacks gives you 6/3 armor, which isn't too shabby.

You love that Colt Government 2066, don't you? And having seen it in so many of these builds, I've come to realize it's more bang for the buck than the beloved Predator, and with a nice clip size. That said, I'm a Ruger Super Warhawk kinda guy. Technically it's just as easy to conceal, and you're not going to find a better gun for shooting armored people that's smaller than an assault rifle. A gun-tinkerous person such as yourself will find it possible to increase the ammo capacity to 8, and you can either change the firing mode to SA or whip out two of them and, instead of splitting your dicepool, simply fire the left one with the first simple action, and the right one with the second simple action.

Of course, a variety of pistols is mandatory. The Morrissey Elan is probably the best holdout in terms of concealability, with its built-in ceramic/plasteel 3 (which isn't available as a mod at chargen). Interesting question; C/P 3 mod raises the availability of all further mods to 20F, but the Elan doesn't have it as a mod, it's just built in. Does that mean you could spend 2,700 to give it Easy Breakdown? Something to consider, I guess.

Cat's Eyes, Muscle Toner 2... why don't you just make him a goddamn elf?

Your adept powers don't add up to 4, friend of mine. .5x2 + .5x2 + 2.5 is 4.5. Improved Reflexes got cheaper, but not that much cheaper. I'd drop a level of Combat Sense, you're going to have 7 bullet-dodging dice anyway.

Unarmed Combat doesn't make the most sense for your character. Personally I'd go with Dodge (Melee) 3, because Firefight can add to melee dodge dice. Also good for when someone with a bigger gun than you opens up the FA. Wide bursts are scary, but eventually they all have to reload....

Firearms group? What the hay? Chummer, cut that crap (if, y'know, you want to). If you really must have something with a bit of range to it, take Automatics 2 or Longarms 2, but cutting the group will let you buy Pistols up to 6, which is actually very important. The maximum modified rating of a skill is the natural rating x1.5 rounded down, so if you want both Improved Ability (Pistols) 2 and Reflex Recorder (Firearms) to help, you need a natural skill of 6.

That's most of what I can think to suggest. The only other thing might be, consider getting a pistol that shoots a whole bunch of bullets at once. Since the Ruger is the king of armor-piercing and the Colt has your All-American Heavy Pistol thing down, what about the Yamaha Fubuki, or Ares Slivergun? The slivergun looks silly against hard targets, and it's not a good choice there, but when you find that unarmored ghoul, hellhound or small child which just needs to get messily killed right now, the slivergun is your friend.

Virtually all of these changes integrated into the first post. Since I broke the Firearems Skill Group, I also downgraded the Reflex Recorders from that to Pistols, saving some Essence and some (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) . Saved Essence and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) used to pick up Cybereyes with all of the accouterments.

As per other suggestions above, picked up Infiltration as a Stealth skill. I could change this to Palming if necessary, but I like Infiltration for the time being - thoughts on which is better in practice?

As has been pointed out, a Lined Coat will not actually encumber a character with Bod 3. Picked up the armored clothing in addition to it anyway, though, since it's nice to have a good high society look and keep your armor sometimes.

Armor and Encumbra nce
If a character is wearing more than one piece of armor at a time, only
the highest value (for either Ballistic or Impact) applies. Note that
some armor items, like helmets and shields, provide a modifier to the
worn armor rating and so do not count as stacked armor.
Too much armor, however, can slow a character down. If either of
a character’s armor ratings exceeds his Body x 2, apply a –1 modifier
to Agility and Reaction for every 2 points (or fraction thereof ) that
his Body x 2 is exceeded. Note that this may affect Initiative as well. If
a character is wearing multiple armor items, add their ratings together
before comparing to Body.

Enhanced Articulation does not improve Combat Active Skills, as these are a different sort of skill than Physical Active Skills. I'm sticking with Synthacardium for the big boosts to Climbing, Running, and those ever-so-useful Gymnastic Dodge tests.

EDIT: Considering Damage Compensator 3 over Synthacardium, since the character now has Dodge to handle most of the things that Gymnastic Dodge would've handled - thoughts?

[McAllister]

If you ever have 1/4 of a power point and you don't know what to do with it, pick up Nimble Fingers. +1 bonus to Palming (which makes it as good as Improved Ability: Palming) and various "makes reloading faster" goodies.

Also, putting one of those Infiltration points into Palming is probably a good deal, because the first point in a skill is really worth 2 (+1 skill, and no -1 defaulting).

[DarkKindness]

Change made to the Stealth skills - thanks for the spot and good advice, McAllister!

Considering Damage Compensator 3 over Synthacardium, since the character now has Dodge to handle most of the things that Gymnastic Dodge would've handled - thoughts?

[McAllister]

Damage Compensators let you ignore wound modifiers from damage. Platelet Factories, at less than the cost of DC2, let you ignore damage. If you get hit by an assault cannon and take 8 boxes of damage, the compensators are better; but four different goons shoot at you with heavy pistols and you have to soak 6 damage 4 times, you'll be glad for that extra box of soak.

If you still have just a touch of Essence left over, consider a datajack. There are useful things you can do with a gun using a smartlink and DNI, and it'll be helpful if you want to switch cybereye vision modes, or call up video feed from somewhere else, without having to speak or gesture a command.

[DarkKindness]

I could give up the Synthacardium 3 for Platelet Factories and a Datajack - thoughts on that? How badly would it reduce my defenses, if at all?

[McAllister]

Reduce your defenses? Very little. You'd lose 2 dice for your Full Defense pool, but that's not a pool you want to use very often; and with your reaction, intuition, combat sense and improved reflexes, you'll be going before most opponents unless they have MbW.

Besides, you'd lose 2 dice from your full defense pool, which means you'll take .67 more damage when you're attacked (and 0 more damage when you're attacked and not using full defense), but you'll always take 1 fewer damage when it. Your defenses will definitely be increased, assuming you're counting both avoidance and soak.

[DarkKindness]

Done deal, then. Edited an Easy Breakdown into the Elans, too, assuming that the built-in ceramics don't affect availability.

[DarkKindness]

Did some further editing on the guns - everything got an Advanced Safety - Spring Trigger Spike and a Skinlink to prevent theft/hacking, everything that could benefit from it got a Personalized Grip (which was everything except the Colts, since they can't benefit from both Personalized Grip and Electronic Firing), and the Sliverguns picked up an Underbarrel Weight.

After the edits from the advice that I've received in this thread and my own independent tinkering, how's this build look for a Gunslinger Adept? Pretty par for the course, better than average, still needs some work? More suggestions please!

[McAllister]

Did some further editing on the guns - everything got an Advanced Safety - Spring Trigger Spike and a Skinlink to prevent theft/hacking, everything that could benefit from it got a Personalized Grip (which was everything except the Colts, since they can't benefit from both Personalized Grip and Electronic Firing), and the Sliverguns picked up an Underbarrel Weight.

After the edits from the advice that I've received in this thread and my own independent tinkering, how's this build look for a Gunslinger Adept? Pretty par for the course, better than average, still needs some work? More suggestions please!

8 guns is nice... do you know what a "New York Reload" is? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lick.gif)

Also, speedloaders are fun, but not really necessary. With a speedloader, you can insert 8 rounds as a complex action. Manually, you can insert 7 rounds as a complex action. If you shot something 28 times with EX-ex bullets from a Warhawk and you think bullets 29 and 30 are going to do the trick, you're doin' it wrong!

I personally love the flavour of pistol-focused adepts (and may post my build for one soon). It's different from the adept you'd've made to mow people down with an assault rifle, but this gunslinger has a lot of versatility, limited only by mediocre range (but honestly, when was the last time your target was 200+ feet away?)

[DarkKindness]

Seriously, though, McAllister - this build in good shape? How's it stack up to your Gunslinger Adept build? Time to move on to the next build for the next day? Time for me to stop asking silly questions until you answer?

[Mäx]

Generally, I don't recommend getting specializations in chargen. If you get 6-8 karma off your first run... that's enough to specialize 3-4 skills right there! I'd put the savings towards actually raising your unarmed from 3->4 (+2 vs +1 more... w/ +2 more to come later), and something else.

That is the biggest reason why i like the karmagen system over the BP-system, none of this silly cheaper after chargen BS.

[McAllister]

The build I have in mind is A. more face than shooter, and B. so odiously cheesy I'd voluntarily tone down the maxxing before I ever played with it. It's a karmagen (everything you build in karmagen is more powerful, unless you want a BOD 10 STR 10 troll) Type O dryad adept who's initiated three times, and, each time, took a power point instead of a metamagic (which is an extra-optional rule found in the Street Magic errata). I can use Commanding Voice to roll 14 dice against Willpower + Leadership (protip: that's 3 dice in your case, and most non-face builds have MAYBE 8 dice in Willpower + Leadership), and if I win, you do what I tell you to, which will probably just be "stand up and hold still" so I can roll 18 dice to shoot you in the face, twice, with the Ruger you didn't even see I had because I have palming 6 and I can buy the three hits I need to Quick Draw it out of my concealed holster. I have Tailored Pheromones 3, Muscle Toner 4 (yeah, I hardmaxed agility at 10) and orthoskin 3. Just to be a prick, I took Green Lucifer, head of the Seattle Ancients, as a loyalty 5 contact, and if I ever get to play this toon, I'll pick up some Pilot Ground Craft (Motorcycles) and trick out a Harley Davidson Scorpion with two sidecars (each with its own Vindicator minigun) and a multiple rocket launcher, so I can ride around the Barrens and look like I'm the warlord of a small nation.

But that's the thing. When I'm cooped up in Maryland and I can't find a group to play with, I think, "how can I exploit every source of social skill dice in the game, and still have points left over for Stealth group 4?" But when I'm getting ready to sit down at a table, I think, "what story do I want to tell?" Then I come up with a concept, not unlike yours, and I work from there, and make something that looks a lot more like what you have. Lot more fun to play, too, unless everyone is also maxxor crazy.

I don't want you to get the wrong impression, DarkKindness. I really do enjoy talking with you, and don't find your questions to be silly. If my manner is odd or unsociable, attribute it to the hour at which I post.

[Glyph]

When you are making a character, you always have to balance how "effective" a character is, vs. how enjoyable to play the character is. You seem to like certain things for most of your builds - the athletics skill group, human, high mental stats for combat types. So if your character is put together well enough to have those things, and still be effective, then that character is optimal for you. McAllister is right, in that the dice-pumping builds that people post here as theoretical exercises are usually a lot different than the characters that people actually play in the Welcome to the Shadows subforum.

[Udoshi]

That is the biggest reason why i like the karmagen system over the BP-system, none of this silly cheaper after chargen BS.

I've noticed that, and I think I had a decent houserule to fix it. While Specializations are a horrible BP-effectiveness ratio, the easy fix is to allow a certain small portion of free knowledge skill points to be spend on skill specializations only. Veto any attempts to quickly gain dicepool, like hacking(exploit), and let it be used in the intended manner, adding flavor to a character. Small things like dance, or an etiquette specialty.