Cyberlimb Armor and Ecumbrance, Query: Options

[DarkKindness]

Just wondering if armor enhancements to cyberlimbs that take up the cyberlimb's capacity are counted toward your total armor for encumbrance? I know that it's both ballistic and impact armor that stacks with any other armor that you're wearing, but it just doesn't seem to make sense for it to cause encumbrance, since it's taking up room that's already there... any rules quotes or references would be great, but debate/general consensus is fine if the references don't exist!

[X-Kalibur]

They do take up cap, they do not count against your armor for encumberance.

[Mäx]

I'm 99% sure that cyberlimb armor doesn't count towards encumbrance, just like orthoskin and dermal plating.
And for rules quotes, i would like to point out that book only talks about worn armor in recarding the encubrance.

[Stahlseele]

Yeah, no, i am not sure about cyber-limb-amror not being taken in for encumberance . .
Every single piece of armor that does not count for encumberance or is handled differently somehow has that explicitly stated.
I kinda miss that statement with ALL the built in armor . . Heck, there's even "natural" Armor that goes towards encumberance.

[DarkKindness]

I'm 99% sure that cyberlimb armor doesn't count towards encumbrance, just like orthoskin and dermal plating.
And for rules quotes, i would like to point out that book only talks about worn armor in recarding the encubrance.

This is a remarkably good point - you're not exactly 'wearing' your cyberlimb armor or natural armor... I think that I'm going to run with this one, since it's the answer that I wanted and has a reasonably good logical backing.

[Deathmaster35]

Question here about this, the rules in the 4E book dont say the encumbrance rules are only for worn armor, in fact the relevent section only mentions worn armor regarding the fact you add the total ratings together before comparing to body (due to the fact the paragraph above it mentions when wearing multiple peices you only use the highest value)


Too much armor, however,
can slow a character down. If either
of a character’s armor ratings
exceeds his Body x 2, apply a –1
modifier to Agility and Reaction for every 2 points (or fraction
thereof ) that his Body is exceeded. Note that this may affect
Initiative as well. If a character is wearing multiple armor items,
add their ratings together before comparing to Body.


I am confused as to why people are saying this rule only applies to worn armor and not all armor

[Stahlseele]

Because it was worded quite differently in SR3 and implanted armor was stated to be exempt from this rule, if i remember correctly.
Also, it's part of your body,you learn to accomodate for such stuff, whereas worn stuff is not there 24/7

[Deathmaster35]

Because it was worded quite differently in SR3 and implanted armor was stated to be exempt from this rule, if i remember correctly.
Also, it's part of your body,you learn to accomodate for such stuff, whereas worn stuff is not there 24/7

I didnt think 3rd had armor encumbrance rules like 4th, but I didnt play 3rd much as I didnt want to buy a new set of books when it was so close to 2nd anyways.

but it comes down to that the assumption that the armor encumbrance rules are only covering worn armor because of the wording in the last edition?

[Mäx]

Question here about this, the rules in the 4E book dont say the encumbrance rules are only for worn armor, in fact the relevent section only mentions worn armor regarding the fact you add the total ratings together before comparing to body (due to the fact the paragraph above it mentions when wearing multiple peices you only use the highest value)


Too much armor, however,
can slow a character down. If either
of a character’s armor ratings
exceeds his Body x 2, apply a –1
modifier to Agility and Reaction for every 2 points (or fraction
thereof ) that his Body is exceeded. Note that this may affect
Initiative as well. If a character is wearing multiple armor items,
add their ratings together before comparing to Body.


I am confused as to why people are saying this rule only applies to worn armor and not all armor

I bolded the relevant part in the rules.

[Stahlseele]

Note the DOT before that Sentence?
That's not encumberance, that's Armor STACKING.

And in SR3, Armor and Encumberance was done with quickness, so the dumb fast elves could carry more armor than the big and strong and tough but slower Troll -.-

[Mäx]

Note the DOT before that Sentence?
That's not encumberance, that's Armor STACKING.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)
Care to elobrate.

[Stahlseele]

No, ignore that, i cannot brain right now, i have the dumb at work -.-

[StealthSigma]

No, ignore that, i cannot brain right now, i have the dumb at work -.-

We all have the dumb at work. Work is like a negative smart vortex. Sucking all the smart and leaving the dumb. As soon as you step foot outside the work smart vortex the smart returns.

[Stahlseele]

Seriously, i need all my brainpower in there . . certain people should be forbidden from chaging ANYTHING on thier computer/internet Access -.-

[Mortified Pengui...]

As far as I interpret it, cyberlimb armour doesn't count for encumbrance. My reasoning for this is that cyberlimb armour is built in the limb - it's intrinsic. Obviously, this is my interpretation, and any RAWdogs are free to point at the text and call me Gaming Judas for houseruling.

[Deathmaster35]

I bolded the relevant part in the rules.

Not sure how the last sentence telling you how to add worn armors rating together before the comparison of your total rating makes all mentions of the word armor only mean worn armor. I am pretty sure that sentence is there to let you know all worn armor counts for encumbrance even though only the biggest peice counts to your armor. I dont see how you can assume it changes the entire meaning of the rest of the paragraph.

[Jaid]

i assume the meaning is:

if you have 6 points of cyber-armor, and 6 points of regular armor, because you only count the stacked armor for worn armor you could have 3 body and not be encumbered. in comparison, if you wear 2 armored vests, then you would add them together, then check for encumbrance.

[Deathmaster35]

i assume the meaning is:

if you have 6 points of cyber-armor, and 6 points of regular armor, because you only count the stacked armor for worn armor you could have 3 body and not be encumbered. in comparison, if you wear 2 armored vests, then you would add them together, then check for encumbrance.

But where do the rules say to only count worn armor?

The rule says:
If either
of a character’s armor ratings
exceeds his Body x 2, apply a –1
modifier to Agility and Reaction for every 2 points (or fraction
thereof ) that his Body is exceeded

It says "character's armor rating" not worn armor's armor rating. If cyber armor says it is cumulative with worn armor, it means it is adding to the character's armor rating.

[RunnerPaul]

It says "character's armor rating" not worn armor's armor rating. If cyber armor says it is cumulative with worn armor, it means it is adding to the character's armor rating.

Just curious, do you treat troll's +1 natural armor the same way?

[Stahlseele]

Seems to be the right way, rules wise . . Even if it does sound silly . .

[X-Kalibur]

Then the Adept's Mystic Armor would pose the same problem by your reading of RAW.

This power magically toughens your skin to resist the effects of damage. Each level provides you with 1 point of armor (that counts as both ballistic and impact) that is cumulative with any worn armor. Mystic Armor also protects against damage done in astral combat (p. 184)

I believe the quote in question is being taken out of context.

If a character is wearing more than one piece of armor at a time, only the highest value (for either Ballistic or Impact) applies. Note that some armor items, like helmets and shields, provide a modifier to the worn armor rating and so do not count as stacked armor. Too much armor, however, can slow a character down. If either of a character's armor ratings exceed his Body x 2, apply a -1 modifier to Agility and Reaction for every 2 points (or fraction thereof) that his Body is exceeded. Note that this may affect Initiative as well. If a character is wearing multiple armor items, add their ratings together before comparing to body.

Italics emphasis mine. This implies that only the ratings of worn armors provide encumberance. Cyberware armor is not worn, it is built in, neither dermal plating nor mystic armor, nor a trolls naturally tough skin count towards encumberance either.

[Dakka Dakka]

The question is if the condition in the opening sentence (If a character is wearing more than one piece of armor at a time,...) applies only to the stacking of armor or to the encumbrance as well.
The word "however" in the second paragraph only makes sense if there is a connection between the first and the second paragraph. So to me the condition in the first paragraph applies to stacking and encumbering. A more definitive wording or a clarification by the devs would be appreciated.

Whatever the case in my groups internal armor never encumbers and always stacks.