Looking for help on metatype concept: Kobolds Options

[TeknoDragon]

I'm thinking of trying to convince my GM to let me play a kobold. I'm envisioning kobolds as short, quick little lizardy folk who are physically weak, but clever bastards when it comes to using (and abusing) machinery.

My rough stat concepts thus far:
Bod -1
Str -1
Agil +1
Int +1
cha -1

Low-light vision, celerity, and a variation of jury-rigger or gearhead

Thoughts on the concept?

[McAllister]

Screw qualities, just add a bonus to technical skills if you want.

[The Overlord]

This is clearly inspired to the point of being a copy of the D&D Kobold. That being said, I am not chastising you, just saying. I am not 100% sure, but that affinity for traps that WOTC associates with Kobolds is of their creation rather than being based of any sort of mythological records. Giving them a jurry-rigger/gear head like ability strikes me as kind of attaching a role/stigma/something to them. None of the other meta types, as afar as i can see, have any such preset conditioning attached to them apart from in fluff. If they are to have some kind of ability/predisposition/whatever than it should be more flexible. How? I dont know. I can't shake the D&D kobold concept of being clever trapmakers from my mind. That is why i love and hate them, those sneaky little buggers!

Also I don't know about Celerity. How much shorter are then than dwarfs. If they are smaller than dwarfs than I would say just remove celerity and give them a dwarf or normal humans movement table instead.

[Maelstrome]

i say its fine if you get rid of the juryrigger,gearhead quality and be done with it.

['Sconnie]

Would these kobolds eat babies?

[Bugfoxmaster]

Let's hope not.

Still, I'd say if you dropped the whole quality thing, gave them a normal human's movement table (dropping celerity), and kept the rest, it should work. Make sure they're not TOO lizard-like, as there're no metatypes that are really that far removed (I'm not including shapeshifters, the infected, sasquatches, naga, or pixies...)

[Warlordtheft]

Let's hope not.

Still, I'd say if you dropped the whole quality thing, gave them a normal human's movement table (dropping celerity), and kept the rest, it should work. Make sure they're not TOO lizard-like, as there're no metatypes that are really that far removed (I'm not including shapeshifters, the infected, sasquatches, naga, or pixies...)

There is surge though.....

[Rasumichin]

Why do i have to think of nacho bowls when i read this thread? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)


Anyway, i'd just go and use SURGE on a dwarf.
Or use a couple of SURGE qualities on the stats you've proposed, as they're kinda...undwarvish.
E.g., you could use Monkey Paws (the picture in the MM looks as if they would qualify) and negative Qualities such as Scales and Vestigial Tail.
Of course, if you really want D&D kobolds, go ahead and give them Juryrigger.

In spite of SR's longstanding tradition of not giving any metatype hardwired character traits, hobgoblins get the Vindictive flaw because they're hormonally imbalanced, so maybe something's up with your kobold's aptitude for trapsmithing as well.
Just make sure to insert some technobabble including a randomly picked part of the brain in your description.

[TeknoDragon]

This is clearly inspired to the point of being a copy of the D&D Kobold. That being said, I am not chastising you, just saying. I am not 100% sure, but that affinity for traps that WOTC associates with Kobolds is of their creation rather than being based of any sort of mythological records. Giving them a jurry-rigger/gear head like ability strikes me as kind of attaching a role/stigma/something to them. None of the other meta types, as afar as i can see, have any such preset conditioning attached to them apart from in fluff. If they are to have some kind of ability/predisposition/whatever than it should be more flexible. How? I dont know. I can't shake the D&D kobold concept of being clever trapmakers from my mind. That is why i love and hate them, those sneaky little buggers!

Also I don't know about Celerity. How much shorter are then than dwarfs. If they are smaller than dwarfs than I would say just remove celerity and give them a dwarf or normal humans movement table instead.

You hit the nail on the head regarding the source, Overlord. Thus far, I've made a couple quick passes through the books to see if I can come close. My biggest problem is finding benefits that are more general than directly making them good at gadgetry, but rather help them be riggers/etc. indirectly.

[DoomFrog]

I would do as others have mentioned.

Use dwarf with surge. If you want them to be "techy" in a general sense. I would suggest Electrosense and/or Mangetosense, maybe a beak as well.

Then give me scales and maybe extravagant eyes and say their eyes are much larger than normal.

[The Jake]

This, ladies and gents, is why some people hate Shadowrun...

That said:
Dwarf metavariant would be the closest but stat block needs substantial rejigging. Must have Juryrigging quality.

- J.

[Kerenshara]

This, ladies and gents, is why some people hate Shadowrun...

That said:
Dwarf metavariant would be the closest but stat block needs substantial rejigging. Must have Juryrigging quality.

- J.

I was just about to go there, being closest to a gnome of the existing types, neoteny plus body hair maybe?

[TBRMInsanity]

I would actually take the Gnome Dwarven Metavarient and tweak it to make the Kobolt. Personally I think a -2 or more to Body and Strength would be more accurate for a Kobolt.

[Muspellsheimr]

Attributes are natural traits, or racial features.
Skills are learned traits.
Qualities can varry, but are most commonly learned traits.

The single greatest flaw I see when someone designs a new species (& it comes up almost every time) is assigning learned traits as a racial characteristic.

You do not 'learn' to be a skilled mechanic by playing as [insert race here]. As such, [insert race here] should not at any point provide a direct benefit to mechanics tests.


Should you want [insert race here] to be naturally good at mechanics, you give them a bonus to the linked attribute - a natural trait; in this case, Logic.

Should you want [insert race here] to be viewed as talented mechanics as a whole, you give them fluff background indicating that they are naturally talented as such, & almost always follow said talent.

[Kerenshara]

Now, keep in mind:

EVERY metavariant has exactly the same BASE stats as the core race, but they might have metagenic improvements. Not one has a reduced statistic.

Just saying. If you're going to start SUBTRACTING from stats, you're creating a new race, not a new metavariant.

[Rasumichin]

All metavariants in SR4 are built by taking a core metatype and assigning Metagenetic Qualities.
These can be positive or negative, depending on the metavariant.
There are cases where a single attribute is metagenetically improved.
It would also be imaginable to decrease one or more stats using the Quality Impaired (Attribute).

It has not been done previously, but in my opinion, it would be in line with existing metavariants.
I wouldn't go as far as saying that this is a new metatype instead of a variant; metavariants include massive morphological shifts from the baseline metatype (cf cyclops and nartaki) and still, these are identified as belonging to the same metatype.
I don't see why assigning another Metagenetic Quality would be a more radical shift, just because it has not been done before with this specific Quality.

[Screaming Eagle]

I oppose a D&D monster port for Kobold. Kobolds of actual myth bear NO practical resembalance to the D&D monsters. There are any number of other monsters in various myth that can fit the bill though...

I will have to differ from others here for the direct D&D port though: base it off of Elf. Assign a negative from the Elfs charisma if you'd like leving them at a cap of 7, this also gives them the "favouring" spellcasters as elves do have more then most. I don't think I'd even touch the rest of the stats. Short, quick, agile and strangly (magically?) charming. I don't have the runners companion so I'm not sure how to get the "trap making" or "scaly" you are looking for as a metageninc traits but I do know that there are any number of Edges that can make you tough (scaly) or good at traps (aptitude).

All this assumes your GM isn't willing to just build the whole thing from the ground up as a Critter which I'd be prone to do rather then jury rigging the rules till they dance when there's a breaze.

[Wacky]

Would these kobolds eat babies?

Mmmmm, babies...

Sign--

Wacky

[The Jake]

Attributes are natural traits, or racial features.
Skills are learned traits.
Qualities can varry, but are most commonly learned traits.

The single greatest flaw I see when someone designs a new species (& it comes up almost every time) is assigning learned traits as a racial characteristic.

You do not 'learn' to be a skilled mechanic by playing as [insert race here]. As such, [insert race here] should not at any point provide a direct benefit to mechanics tests.


Should you want [insert race here] to be naturally good at mechanics, you give them a bonus to the linked attribute - a natural trait; in this case, Logic.

Should you want [insert race here] to be viewed as talented mechanics as a whole, you give them fluff background indicating that they are naturally talented as such, & almost always follow said talent.

Point taken but that isn't the approach taken in Runner's Companion.

- J.

[TeknoDragon]

I oppose a D&D monster port for Kobold. Kobolds of actual myth bear NO practical resembalance to the D&D monsters. There are any number of other monsters in various myth that can fit the bill though...

I will have to differ from others here for the direct D&D port though: base it off of Elf. Assign a negative from the Elfs charisma if you'd like leving them at a cap of 7, this also gives them the "favouring" spellcasters as elves do have more then most. I don't think I'd even touch the rest of the stats. Short, quick, agile and strangly (magically?) charming. I don't have the runners companion so I'm not sure how to get the "trap making" or "scaly" you are looking for as a metageninc traits but I do know that there are any number of Edges that can make you tough (scaly) or good at traps (aptitude).

All this assumes your GM isn't willing to just build the whole thing from the ground up as a Critter which I'd be prone to do rather then jury rigging the rules till they dance when there's a breaze.

Hmm. What other mythical creatures would fit the bill, do you think?

Interesting thought on using the Elf type as a base; I'll have to look at it coming from that direction.

[Screaming Eagle]

A quick round of the Wikipedia later I've grabed a few things to run with, no perfect matches, a slightly suprising general lack of lizard people:

Closes in my opinion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bysen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maa-alused
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kallikantzaroi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coblynau
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluricaun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kappa_(folklore)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yama-bito
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumbee#Backoo

And though not an old myth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremlin

there are hundereds to thousands to millions of little myths out there, find a Mischiff demon of fairy and run with it (looking over Kobold they are helpful hearth spirits for the most part and could make a decent base character, and everyone could wrongly assume kobolds are lizard persons who makes traps owing to D&D 35th Ed. AR LARPing)

[BookWyrm]

....as long as they're NOT Tucker's Kobolds.

[Screaming Eagle]

....as long as they're NOT Tucker's Kobolds.

That is in fact the only way I run monsters with average or better intellegence, low physicals and "usually evil" in their description. My groups activally avoid Kobolds in my D&D games once they've had a single run in, and the last time was a 14th lvl party... they went to topple a over-arching setting villian instead of deal with them. Think about desiding to take on Aztecnologys HQ (yes the villian had a ziggurat, a dragon and foul magics) rather then the presented run and you get the idea. The little buggers just DON'T PLAY FAIR. hehehe.

[NPCMook]

Start with Elf or Human as the base, Changeling Surge III

Raptor Beak
Dragon Skin
Lowlight Vision
Nasty Vibe/Claws
Neoteny
Vestigial Tail

That's how I would build the classic DnD Kobold