[X] My Assistant

[Mana Child]

Hi, i was wondering what the hero system is, what its like and what games use it.
And i'm also wondering whether its easier or harder to learn than shadowrun.
Note: My username used to be cryptkeeper but i had to make a new one becuase of email/password/forum/password problems.

Kind Regards

Mana Child

[Johnny Demonic]

Well from what I heard years back it is somewhat similiar in parts to GURPS. You buy powers, advantages, and disadvantages. I know there is a fantasy hero, cyberhero, and other genres to it.

I know they co-own this Fuzion system with R. Talsorion Games. I heard Fuzion is like the Interlock (Cyberpunk 2020 and Mekaton) system cross breed with Hero.

Here is a link for their website:
http://www.herogames.com/

[Crusher Bob]

The HERO system is used by champions, and a few add-on with the 'hero' named added in (fantasyhero, cyberhero, etc).

Basically it's a 'generic' system where power modifiers are what give powers their distinctiveness. So a gun in the hero system might be something like:

Ranged Killing Attack
Autofire
30 charges
Only at full power (you can't shoot half a bullet)
Focus (it's the gun that does the work, not you)
Gestures (you can't use a gun while tied up, unlike eye-beams)

It can take some getting used to since, the power limiters are really what the 'character' of the system is built on. If you don;t like simple math, best aviod it.

Fuzion takes the worst elements of HERO and the worst of Interlock and creates a horrible zombie horse of a system.

[Ditaki]

Hi,

I just got HERO yesterday. First things first, you only need the core book to play. That's good. The Core Book is about 400 pages hardcover, so, it seriously is the size and thickness of a high school textbook. Light still, but really...imposing.

The book (I've only gotten about 60 or so pages into it) throws numbers around, as long as you can keep the numbers and the abbreviations correct, you can read it with little trouble. (Just remember that 13- means roll lower than 13 on 3d6, the main dice roll and that most rolls are based off of the (9+(stat)/5=number you roll less than) idea)

Looks like it's a really solid system though, and definatly worth if you want to design either a superhero game (HERO was Champions for four editions ya know) or something that you want to do (basically, HERO let's you create a world/system/characters that are pretty much going to be balanced...which is pretty good).

Clean simple style and organized well, but really imposing.

[Mana Child]

Whats the full name of the Core Rule book?

[Crusher Bob]

I think it's the 'Hero system rulebook version X' Though you can also buy a copy of champions and get the rules too (You really need some sample characters, and stuff).

[bwdemon]

Champions no longer includes the HERO System rules, it's a supplement for superhero gaming under the HERO System. The core book is called "HERO System, 5th edition". It's a thick, harbound book with a black cover and a green man inside a hex on the front. Occasionally, it's known as the Green Man Book.

[The Burning One]

HERO System by itself is an utterly useless work of pure genius. At least that's my opinion so keep that in mind when reading the rest of this.

The genius part is that you can build anything and I mean anything using the rules presented in the base book. We’re talking everything from spells, to super abilities, to vehicles all the way through to worlds and dimensions. To date, between myself and three of my associates we have been able to create game mechanics for everything from black powder muskets down to toothpaste. If you can dream it up and have managed to wrap your head around the system you can make it. End of story.

The useless part is that virtually nothing is defined. With just the base book you get a few samples of what you can do but if you’re looking to start a game you literally have to build it from scratch. They give you the rules for doing the building and a system in which to run it once you’re done, but if you’re looking at starting a HERO System game I’d say give yourself about 6 months to a year of prep time to build your world before trying to get the game started. Until you’ve had to start from scratch you can’t imagine how long it takes to define basic things. Not because they’re individually complicated but simply because there’s so many of them.

This was partially solved by the source books they’ve released which contain large amounts of pre-generated items or abilities but then that kind of gets away from the whole point of being able to design it to your tastes. If you’re looking for a system with pre-designed items and abilities there are probably others out there that are a lot less cumbersome.

Now don’t get me wrong the hero system flows nicely once you’ve done the groundwork the problem is to get to the point where it will run smoothly you need to have done a lot of work in advance.

Anyway just my 2 :nuyen:

TBO

[Rev]

Heh, are there any games harder to learn than Shadowrun?

I played Hero:Champions quite some time ago and had a fair bit of fun. Unfortunately I sort of broke the system by putting basically all of my points into dexterity (I could move in all 12 phases, and really only area attacks could hit me), and pretty much wrecked the game, so be sure you don't let anyone do that. But it was fun for a bit and really easy to get started.

It was really great the way you could plug together all these different power modifiers to come up with almost anything you could concieve of.

Want to have a plasma beam shooting out of your eyes powered by drinking the juice from canned peaches? It's right there in the rules how much it should cost.

How about guy with a gizmo that constantly drains the energy of people and things nearby and at somewhat random intervals shoots powerful out bolts of electricity to the nearest target within 20 meters? No problem.

[Crusher Bob]

The trick to dealing with dex monsters is area effect attacks, since you are shooting at the Hex, not the DEX monster. So get yourself a blaster with a multipower that has at least one area effect power (entagles work well) and you are set.

[Zazen]

Burning One is right, it can simulate almost anything (time-control powers seem to be lacking, though), right down to toothpaste. It's also quite math-heavy so you'll want "Hero Creator" or some other character generator. Creating characters by hand is a huge hassle.


Also, the Hero system is really easy to break so you need a GM who is competant enough to restrict the stuff that needs restricting. I played one game with a character modelled after "The Great and Powerful Turtle" from the Wild Card books (the character stays in his heavily armored vehicle "shell" and uses his telekinesis to fly it around and do stuff). The way that points multiply when you put them into a vehicle made him nigh-invulnerable. He was disgustingly overpowered; the GM started making NPCs specifically cooked up to kill me and was still unable to deal me even a single point of damage. It got so stupid and boring that the game ended after a few sessions.

[Crusher Bob]

Yep, that's the real problem with HERO, to get started you already have to know what you are doing... A HERO based game can quickly be ruined by the GM not really 'getting' some of the math the makes up the system.

[Sunday_Gamer]

Enter Sunday... I love the Hero system. It and I have a deep understanding. It is the most flexible system there is, the only one to ever pass my test. My test is a simple one, pick 3 characters, from books movies, real life whatever, and then make them. Don't make aproximations, don't compromise, just make them. Hero systems is the only one I know that does that.

The system is simple to me but I'm told rather dizzying to learn, therefore I suggest you learn it by playing in the game of a GM who knows it, when the Gm knows the combat system, combat flows very well, very cinematic.

One thing. "Technically" you are supposed to pay points for gear. Oldest house rule I know: You don't pay points for anything that is available wihin that characters "normal" society. We pay cash for swords and armor in Fantasy Hero, not points.

The base system is complete, they just released a new edition, 5th. They tightened up a few loose rules and cleaned things up.
The other books are not mandatory, they are "setting" books. Fantasy Hero, Champions (Supers), Danger International (Spy), that sort of thing, they sometimes have rules about setting specific topics but the basic rules and your brain will allow you to make your own or deduce theirs without needing the book, but they do make life easier.

Any freeform game I run is Heros, it's the most flexible and since it's all the same base system, a wizard can mix with a cyber-soldier effortlessly as they're built in the same system. I only look to other games when I like the world, the idea, the mood. Shadowrun would easily be replicated in Hero, they made a cool world, let's give their system a chance, hence we use the SR system, same thing for Mage and Vampires, we use WW.

I feel secure enough to say I can safely answer any question about the Hero system though I may be fuzzy on certain rules that got tweaked in 5th ed, not having read it from cover to cover yet.

Sunday

[Crusher Bob]

Hmm, there were rules somewhere for not paying for gear, that's what the 'familiarities' were for. You got familairity small arms, so you could use all 'regular' small arms...

[edit]
Besides, HERO has some of the kewlest 'exploits' evar like Planet Man, Deadman, and The Landlord

Planetman has life support (so he can life in space) and FTL travel. He also has enough shrinking power to shrink a planet sized mass down to something small enough to fit in his pocket. If you anger him, he'll take Jupiter out of his pocket and throw it at you (unshrinking it the the process).

Deadman is, well, dead. He dosen't really do anything other than float (he sorta flies) around and, well, be dead. His power is the he is about 2^48 times as scary as a normal person. and he's attracted to evil (he slowly floats in the direction of evildoers). Most evildoers repent on the spot when Deadman floats up.

The Landlord owns the universe. It's his heroic base of operations, and he has billions of loyal followers. Your waittress, that guy pumping your gas, the girl with the puppy, the old guy feeding the pigeons; yep they all pay homage to the Landlord.
[/edit]

[hobgoblin]

why oh why did i start to think about freedom force (the computer game) when i read the "heroes" crusher bob described...

hmm, after some investigation into this game system im interested to say the least. im hopeing to pick up a copy in the near future :)

[Sunday_Gamer]

Eh eh, Crusher refers to the "being all powerful" section of the manual where they jump right to the munchkin magic and sa you should coax your GM into giving you an ungodly amount of points and they they list a few examples =)

I believe the description of one guys disads ran something like: Sits in the middle of the universe gibbering. Is hunted by every sentient lifeform in the universe and takes damage from being alive. All of his powers only work while he's at the center of the universe except for his teleport which only works when he's not and takes him to, you guessed it, the center of the universe.

My favorite is planet man, he throws planets =)

Sunday

[Nova]

You missed the best part of the "gibbering at the center of the universe" guy. His powers are "ungodly amounts of Xray vision" and a planet destroying spell. So he sits in the middle of the universe, gibbering, using his teleportation to get him back to the center of the universe (which is the only place the rest of his powers work). If you piss him off, he finds your planet and blows it up.

This is an example of a character gone wrong btw...not the typical.

Nova

[hobgoblin]

and most likely have very high amounts of points behind him. no sane gm would allow a gamebreaker like that to stay around if it was a pc (a npc godlike creature in the galactus class is something else ;) )...

[Ditaki]

Wow. I think you may have just created a low-key, non-sanity inducing Azathoth...wow.

[kryton]

I played cyberhero way back in 93' when I was dating a chick in Dallas. It was a fun system and we had a really good GM. The players were about as exciting as wet wall paper and the combat took forever. It was fun but combat took a while. So far my favorite combat game is Cyberpunk by RTalslorian games. The to hit was simple and quick but very very deadly. You didn't pull out your gun lightly. Ironically the developer Mike Pondsmith went to work for Microsoft as a game developer. Cyberpunk 2020 is a elegant system overall but the character creation part of it is clunky. If they got rid of the "special archteype skills", I think the game would be better. Solo's tended to be combat monsters.

[hobgoblin]

i think they are planing to toss it out the door whenever they get the next version out (if that ever happens). there was allso some talk about some optional rules on how you could mix and match special skills...

[sable twilight]

What I liked about the Hero System is that is taught me do differentiate between the actual effect and special effect of something, and, along with Amber Diceless, that everything had a cost associated with it. It is one of the best systems for running a Superhero or cinematic style game, though it would get too cumbersome for much else.

[bwdemon]

Nah, it isn't that cumbersome. When you use HERO for normal games instead of superheroic games, things even out and you lose the crazy cinematics. Normal characteristic maxima corrects the biggest source of slowdowns/cinematics (attributes) and technological limits keep gear from getting too out of whack. The hit location tables really speed up combat, as well (won't see too many people taking too many hits).

The single most important thing to any HERO games is the GM's ability to set and enforce limits. A sizable group of players think they should be able to kill everything everytime with one pull of a trigger and able to put experience wherever they please, regardless of consequences to the game. Of course, any game suffers when players have no self-control or respect for the campaign.

[sable twilight]

They've added hit locations? (It's been since about 3rd ed Champions or so since I've picked up a Hero system book) Interesting. I was already getting the urge to pick up a new copy of the core rules when I read this thread, now even more so. I could probably still use a lot of my old sourcebooks couldn't I? I doubt many of the core rules or even values for stats and powers have changed, have they?

Yes, being able to set limits as a GM was always important in the Hero system. I remember that being emphasized even in the earlier editions. The nice thing was, if I remember correctly, is that you could just put an overall cap, such as no base attribute higher then X or powers with more then Y dice in them, and it pretty much balanced out across the board. No having to micromanage the power level for each ability, if I remember. It still pretty much that way? I also remember them adding the little magnifying glass and stop signs next to powers that could be readily abused. That was nice too.

[Zazen]

I played 4th edition and I don't remember hit locations there either. Must be new.

All I really remember is invulnerable vehicles, 25,000,000 die move-throughs, really cheap mach 10 noncombat movement rates, exploits for infinite-dice energy blasts, and damage shields that did 80,000 points of knockback. All under the 75 active point limit. :|