A message from the new line developer, or, Shadowrun has everything it needs--except Twinkies Options

[RunnerPaul]

No new Rigger book, we all know what happens when a new Rigger book is published, and nobody wants a new edition.

The curse of the Rigger book was disproven with the release of Rigger 3 Revised. After R3R hit shelves, no new edition got published right on its heels, and no one went out of the publishing buisness. The release that preceded SR4 was not a Rigger book.

[Derek]

To mirror what I said on the SR4 site, I'm a SR'er since 1st ed, and I love the Earthdawn/horror tie ins. I'd love to see more of that. Also more 'secret' type stuff in general, whether ancient magic secrets, secret corp experimentation, etc...

[flowswithdrek]

I have been playing Shadowrun since the 1st Edition. What got me into Shadowrun was the fiction. Never Deal With a Dragon to be exact and what got me to pick that book up in the book shop was the cool (and at the time very different) artwork on the cover.

So that’s the first thing I want more of, fiction and artwork, that makes me want to play Shadowrun and that makes me want to buy more Shadowrun products.


So what kind of products do I want to see?

I would like to see some kind of new rework of the Native American Nations, something futuristic dark and gritty.

New Critters, Brand new critters, Creatures we have never seen before in roleplaying games (if that’s possible).

I like gritty adventures I can buy off the shelf to run when I have writers block or need something at short notice.

And as been mentioned the occasional high level curve ball that makes me sit up and go Hell Yeah!

I like dead tree products, cant stand pdf, fine for character sheets etc but i like to hold a product in my hand.

I don’t want much, hell im sure I could go on for days.

Congrats and good luck on what sounds like the best job on the planet.

[Method]

I will never for the life of me understand peoples' fascination with Shadowbeat. I will keep my opinions to myself, but in case you all haven't noticed most of the material in that book *has been updated* in newer products... with better rules.

As for the whole female pronoun business, I find it contrived, intrusive and generally distasteful. If you're writing a story about a female character or a rule example features a character that happens to be female, then by all means say "she". But in recent years female seems to have become the default gender in all rules text. I agree with tweek 100%- it is something I would greatly like to see done away with.

My product wish list is short and sweet. In order:
-- Sixth World Almanac
-- Military Source Book
-- Vice
(Oh look! They're all in the works! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

As far as adding value, I have three words: 20th Anniversary Edition. Seriously- that book is beautiful. The art work is great (which has always been a little hit-or-miss in SR products), the layout is awesome, its organized in the way you use the book, the master index is a great value-added feature AND its hardcover and well bound. Previous SR products might as well have been held together by hydrogen bonding. I have a copy of Matrix that I literally nailed back together. Anyway, I realize that you guys can't put that kind of time and energy into every book, but I'd say you guys are making huge strides in the right direction. Keep up the great work.

[Derek]

Oh, and as for pictures and artwork, I want more pictures like in the old London sourcebook. You know, the ones with the real people dressed up to look like refugees from the future.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[ShimmerGeek]

As for the whole female pronoun business, I find it contrived, intrusive and generally distasteful. If you're writing a story about a female character or a rule example features a character that happens to be female, then by all means say "she". But in recent years female seems to have become the default gender in all rules text. I agree with tweek 100%- it is something I would greatly like to see done away with.

Ah sorry, I hadn't realise exactly what tweak had meant (if that is what he meant)

I don't really tend to notice pronouns, but, yeah, 'he' probably would make more sense (or a mix, with more 'he's) - I love seeing examples featuring female characters, or fiction about female characters though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)



I love 20A too - it kindof makes me wrinkle up my nose at 20 (*soooo much prettier!* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) but the only thing I didn't like was the fact that for the Metatypes there was a picture of five guys - I think before it was maybe a mix, but, well I'd have liked an easy picture to show people of the female metavariants too. (That's a minor thing of course, but it'd be helpful to make sure players realise Shadowrun Dwarves/Orks/Trolls are not the same as World of Warcraft Dwarves/Orks/Trolls)

[SincereAgape]

Hey Jason,

Welcome aboard. Looking forward to what the future holds for Shadowrun.

[Blade]

Good to have a lead developer again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bladerunner]

Just keep stopping by.

With the experience that people here have in the shadows, you'll never want for brainstorming.


BTW: Did we ever get he Twinkies thing figured out?

[JM Hardy]

Just keep stopping by.

With the experience that people here have in the shadows, you'll never want for brainstorming.


BTW: Did we ever get he Twinkies thing figured out?

Despite my low post count, I'm actually here pretty regularly, and plan to now make it even more regular. Doesn't mean I'll see everything, of course, but I'll be around, because I know the depth of knowledge that resides here.

In other news, I believe my local Stuffer Shack now has Twinkies in aisle 9.

Jason H.

[RunnerPaul]

In other news, I believe my local Stuffer Shack now has Twinkies in aisle 9.

Roll 1D6, get a 5, consult Food Fight Table on p. 206 of the original first edition core rule book -- Result: "Mushy (Anything that used to be a recognizable foodstuff before being impacted by a shotgun blast)."

Roll 1D6 again, get a 2, consult the "Mushy" sub-table -- Result: "Spongy and Soft."

Not only are there twinkies in aisle 9, like all good twinkies, they could very well have been there for two decades.

(Though going by first edition's map key, aisle 8 (mega-carobhydrate-death stuffers) would have been more likely. The Hostess Snack Cakes^tm must be on the endcap.)

[Remmster]

It feels kinda weird for my first posting on Dumpshock to be on such an important topic (so, btw, hiyall), and I'm aware this is not precisely what you asked for, since this is less about adding value to *my* game, but here goes nothing:

One thing, as a Gamemaster (looking for successors), I would really like to see is a "Complete GM Handbook for Shadowrun". (Like I said, not so much for ME, actually, but for those who are like me 10 years ago - totally new to the whole SR-thing.)

As someone who got into Shadowrun when 3rd Edition hit the shelves, I have to admit I had a hard time getting into the game as a Gamemaster. Granted, in this day and age of net-research, it is far more easy for newbies to get the help they need (like, for instance, right here), but still.

Not that it *really* impacted the enjoyment of the game, but I have to say I became somewhat frustrated during SR3 to piece together GM-Advice from the basic pieces in the core book, then the Companion, and (much later) the Mr. Johnson's Blackbook. While I felt the SR4-Corebook collected a whole lot of stuff from old, scattered material (and went beyond by including lots of general SR-Universe description, advice and hints in the side-boxes) and you can still pick up a lot from the varios rule- and sourcebooks, I still get the impression that total newbie-SR-GMs might indeed appreciate a book that foregoes "reading between the lines/piecing it together" and adresses several issues of the game, without having to rely on scenario-books or learning from an experienced GM (let's face it, GM styles vary a lot, and not every good GM is also a good teacher on How-to-be-one).

While "On the run", for instance, was a help, I know a lot of people who don't really like picking up official adventures, and might miss out on those parts. (Especially GMs who consider them all-in-all somewhat experienced appear to skip official adventures and want to write their own ones right away - I know I was one of them, sorry. I was young and proud.)
Also, frankly, game preparation can be somewhat annoying, when essential information is spread among various core books, booklets (like those that come with GM-screens). While I realize that by default SR4 eliminates a lot of the factors that irritated gamemasters I know (like in SR2-3, not realizing that Deckers and Riggers could be... somewhat less loved by the rest of the players due to time-consuming Matrix- and vehicle-rules; same goes for Astral-projection-sprees) via the whole new Matrix concept, I think Shadowrun still has some pitfalls that even experienced GMs can stumble upon, if they carry over conceptions from other games the may have mastered.

That said, I frankly don't think the already named Johnson's Blackbook quite did the trick. Maybe I'm wrong there, and the "Anatomy of a Shadowrun"-part was solid, but I felt that had I not known books like Sprawl Sites and the Companion, it kinda comes across as a "patch" of sorts and didn't really feel that complete. Following the SR4-Line so far, I fear this is running the same track. There's the problem with repetition, naturally. But all in all, I think reprinting info bits that have already been in the core book in such a "GM Manual" might not be the worst idea (I can see some people complaining that they don't like "buying stuff they already have twice", tho, granted).
While I think the Runner's Companion definetly offers GM-Material with Advanced Contacts and such, I still am missing a closer inspection of basic stuff like payment, game balancing and such issues (it always annoyed me that the 3rd Edition Companion was really sketchy on the whole payment-for-a-run-deal, and I'm still missing pointers for that in the SR4 core. The Johnsons Blackbook had that, but at least I feel that part kinda drowned and was - at that point - not really enlightening anymore).

Also, I think some newer players and GM-aspirants do get a sense of the 6th World from what's written in the SR4-core and the various sourcebooks, sure, but shy away from how to actually use/handle it in a step-by-step fashion that's not intimidating as GMs. The SR-Universe is awesome. But big. If you were along for the ride for quite some time, I guess it's no problem, but I often see newcomers being blown off-track if not given a helping hand from someone who knows the way around. (I know this is always the preferable way on how to learn to play/manage a game, but I, for instance, had to learn SR3 back then by the books alone - and it was a rough ride for me. I'm sure it might have been easier with SR4 around, but I guess mainly for the rules and a higher degree of core-book-completeness.)

Don't get me wrong - the "Running the Shadows"-Section alone offers a lot of good material, the most comprehensive collection so far - but while it is there, I was still met with the scenario of hearing "I don't know how though..."* when I tried to get some else out of the one or other group to pick up GMing for a change (oddly enough, despite the fact that they have seen and experienced the game in action, which actually should be a good pointer). I do get the feeling that the material from that chapter also appeals to me who already knows all I need on how to go about SINs, security, playing out the world and how to write a scenario, but I can't really ban previous experience from my mind and try to fully see it through newbie-eyes. While I certainly have cut my teeth already, it might not be a bad thing to grab one single volume out of my shelf, say "Here you go, it has everything you need to know together with the core book, presented in an easy-to-follow fashion", and voilá. Maybe I would get to be a player more often then, heh.

Well, if this is already covered or planned in some upcoming product (I have not been keeping track so much this year so far, I admit), ignore my nagging. I also haven't looked at the new edition of the Corebook yet, either - so maybe my criticism is really not up to date. I know that GM-Guidebooks seem to be somewhat of a fashion thing these days, but honestly - I think they really help newcomers a lot, even if they're a lot to chew threw (and might contain so utterly basic things that rub the "old folks" the wrong way). While there are a lot of useful generic/system-free GM-advice books out there, I somehow get the feeling that a popular and attractive line like SR deserves its own.

Let's say, bundle stuff from Companion3, Johnson's Blackbook, Running the Shadows, the GM-Screenbooklet, some stuff from Loose Alliances and Gameinfo on how to handle the corps/big guys (I presume in the upcoming Corporate Guide there's stuff on that?).
In case that's part of what the Runner's Toolkit covers, than nevermind. I have no idea what's in there, though, just saw the title and it doesn't really sound like it. Hm.

In conclusion, maybe people who lack the effort to learn the game even without such a guidebook might not stick to GMing anyway, but I'd like to think of this as an antiquated thought, because I believe there are a lot of dedicated, but busy people, who would make great GMs (and thus offer more SR gaming sessions for everyone!) if given a little soft-handed direction, so they can move in gradually even with a somewhat busier schedule and not having the time to go through various books to "get the picture".

*Then again, maybe others [and even me?] were just too dumb or lazy and/or uncoordinated to handle the material and others might not have had similar problems - but don't tell anyone I said that, or they'll come for me in the night. Can't-sleep-players-will-stab-me...

***

Aside from that? We need a new Renraku Arcology. Or maybe another Bug City. Or, like, Renraku City. The whole mystery-death-trap-concept found wide acclaim around these parts. We don't need a new Shadowbeat though. A little bit of it like stuff from the Sprawl Survival Guide was okay. Oh, right, speaking of that one - while that book was okay, I think it kinda focused too much on the "normal people", except for the later parts, maybe. I would really prefer to see a new incarnation of that one that incorporates more of the attitude that the Runners Companion has, maybe a little more detail. And yup, the already named SOTA-books were kinda nice.

Okay, that's it. Sorry for that long post, and hopefully it doesn't sound too awkward.
Cheers for the new line developer, but also for the other writers and contributors. Greetings from Germany, where Pegasus Press is picking up where Fanpro stuck - much to the delight of SR-players 'round the corner. It's a cool game that we all want to see being played still and more.

[martindv]

And this is where you come in—what would add value to your games? We’ve got plenty of ideas in the works, but I’m happy to add more. Throw in a comment and tell me what you’re looking for!

I miss the prescience of Tom Dowd. I have a friend in Iraq who works for a PSC who has been remarking about how much of what he wrote in Fields of Fire was accurate to his experience both in the military and now as a "mercenary." But as well, he has found it amusing at how thinks he created in that book are now commonplace weapons of war. And it's not that surprising when you look at Matador's reading list, which includes Clausewitz and others (big shock) but he also cites Dunnigan--being James Dunnigan, author of How to Make War (which is basically the bible of modern warfare, first written during the Cold War but has since been updated again and again). To that end, I'd be happy as a pig in shit if the material tried a bit harder to be creative and forward-thinking rather than just trying to replicate what is going on now, like almost everything technological and social since fourth edition came out. I mean, I give Nigel Findley a Hell of a lot of credit because he had the balls to just say, "Fuck you. It's not real life. It's Shadowrun, and this is AWESOME." I'm bored and actually pissed when I read a book filled with ideas Xeni Jardin blogged about six months before (like half of the Chicago chapter of Feral Cities). That's not cool. That's not forward-thinking. And frankly it's a waste of money. I don't want something that I already know about. I want something that's worth buying because it's cool and original and novel like pre-Shadows of North America Tir Tairngire. That was awesome and totally out of left field. And it was fun as Hell to run (actually, running during the insurrection was fun so long as it never involved the democratic and other lousy factions trying to neuter all the fun and novelty of TT unless they were random d-bags we killed).

I'd also be tickled ten shades of pink if Shadowrun stopped perpetuating this dark, ignorant, frankly racist view of Africa. And I know I had this out with Jennifer before, and I didn't buy her line because it's not what MAY be. It's what HAS been published about the continent in the last six-seven years. It reminds me of the evil, ignorant racist shit idiots use to describe life south of the Mexican border and more specific to this point the way ignorant Europeans would refer to Africa when I visited there. You know what would be cool, but will NEVER happen? Mogadishu being the Barcelona of Africa. That'd be neat, and would require someone to actually look beyond the current status of Mog. I mean, come on. The world of SR is so fucking different than ours that it makes no sense to transplant every single thing that is going on now IRL to a fictional world where you actually have license to write anything you want.

Basically, I'm looking for writing with balls and creativity.

[Method]

Nicely put, martindv.

[eidolon]

Hell, I can get behind that.

People bag on YotC, but I don't care which way you feel about it, at least it was out there.

Bug City. Renraku Arcology. YotC.

That's good shit.

[Athenor]

mart, I can't comment on most of your post as it is either well outside of my sphere of knowledge or stuff that preceded my time in Shadowrun, but isn't Feral Cities (along with Runner Havens and Corporate Enclaves) supposed to be a book about getting new GM's/players up to speed on the locales? Or at the very least explaining what happened in the time jump? Again, I admit I haven't read them yet--not enough time in the day-- but it just seems like something I'd do. But I'm probably way, way off base with them being more introductory material than anything like the Target books.

[Cain]

First of all, let me add my congrats to the ring.

As for what I want? Keep Shadowrun Shadowrun.

Don't add a lot of cool things just because they're cool. Add them because they fit with the Shadowrun world. Shadowrun has become more than a simple idea over the years: it's become an entity unto itself. Don't be afraid to mess with the paradigm, but don't go and change it just because of cool toys.

I've been playing this game for twenty years, and I've seen Shadowrun both evolve and radically change. The evolution is a good thing; radical change is a bit more hit-and-miss. (I remember the Gascigone/Sargeant days, when goth vampires were added, because WoD was popular and goth vampires was cool. It about killed the game.) Shadowrun needs to be Shadowrun, not a White Wolf clone with bigger guns.

Well, thanks for listening to this old grognard rant. I remember what this game was, I see what it is, and I know what it can be. I'm excited about the future of Shadowrun-- but for the gods sake, keep it Shadowrun, and not something else entirely.

[Blade]

I agree with martindv.

[Chrysalis]

Hi Mr Cumberbund, err Jason,

Nice to meet you. I am looking forward to Vice.

Take everything in this thread with a pinch of salt.

[ravensmuse]

Definitely a grain of salt. Some with very large pinches of salt.

[Mister Book]

Shadowrun always seems to change with technology, at least the Matrix does. Sometimes good, sometimes not. I admit I came into Shadowrun in 2nd edition just before 3rd came out. We had Deckers and cyberdecks, at the time laptops were cool and hip to have. They weighed about 50lbs and were bigger than a VW bug. Now the cool thing is to have your blackberry and the internets on your celphone so we have the Wireless Matrix. We get spam in our email, so we deal with AR spam in our game.

I so hate AR spam.

Magical Resonance Matrix.

Oh no, I got cyber, my technomancer loses his magic ra....resonance rating.

[Garou]

As someone who started at SR2 and skipped SR3 entirely, I myself would love a Seatle 2072 view of overview of some South American city. (yeps, i´m from Brazil. Sue me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) WE HAVE A DRAGON! WEE!) The point is, we have almost next to NOTHING on Amazonia (the level of details given is quite low). It only speaks to the northern area of the continent, skipping places like Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo and Buenos Aires. What are they now? Is São Paulo a Corporate Enclave? I never could get my hands on Shadows of South America, so i guess some updating on that would be GREATLY in order.

It would help to end the notion that after the Awakening and the Dragon War on the Brazilian government, everything became covered in Rainforest inside Muralha Verde, which is VERY far away from the truth. There is no AMMOUNT of magic that could make a place like São Paulo or Salvador be covered in greenery again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/twirl.gif) . It´s kinda of a Biased view that seems to be found a lot on Cyberpunk RPGs (the former Trinity, from White Wolf, had a similar problem). We have a bunch of South Americans here in Dumpshock and i guess we all would love to proofread it with joy and devotion any material. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

On the Crunch Level, Metaplanes, please. And detailed Ressonance Realms. And a lot of curve balls so can just read it and say... "that was... so... AWESOME..." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Chrysalis]

Something which Garou said resonated with me. I really, really recommend that you use people with knowledge of the region to give editorial advice on the book before it is published.

I really would wish there to be none of the "Helsinki is sinking" comments like in CP 2020 (which even in high-school I knew Finland was gaining land mass, not sinking).

[Pollution]

While the background material clearly reflects the importance of the Tribal movement during the Great Ghost Dance and all that Native American stuff, the rest of the setting books don't address that area at all to this point (at least with SR4 books).

I'd like to see some focus on the Native Americans in future books. Even a character here or there. I get that things change over the years, and that the revolution they had was a WHILE ago at this point, but I'd still like to see some kind of mention somewhere in the source books. Heck, special rules for Native Americans or their spirits, or their special blend of magic, or hell, why not Tech?

What would the Native American tribal lands be like now in SR4? With tech that's been specially tailored to Native American culture. Like IDK, Apache War Clubs that are made of high quality materials (Carbon Fiber handles maybe?). Or hacker resources dealing with the Tribes. There ya go......that's an idea for a chapter or two....

How do the tribes view the Technomancer? Mages = OK, Shamans = "in touch with Gaia and stuff" Cyber = "not great..." Technomancers = ????

I'd LOVE to see something like that in a book for SR4.

So, yeah... More Tribal stuff, there's no Native American materials beyond history background that I can really find.

Oh, and GRATZ! on the position!

[X-Kalibur]

Actually, the NAN (well, PCC) has it's own Technomancer Network, KivaNet. See Unwired.