Problems I have with writing Shadowrun Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Chrysalis]

Greets,

I just wrote a little vignette for CanRay's ghettopunk game. It was a spontanious piece of work, but high-lights one of the problems I have with writing Shadowrun. What really makes Shadowrun, well Shadowrun.

I mean the vignette I wrote can be taken and placed into almost any setting. Whether 1870, 1970, or 2070. Obviously there are no SUVs in 1870, but that is simply a question of change. There are no Stuffer Shacks in 1970, but there are diners.

The problem I see is that with poverty there are few if any real changes. The flop houses of the 1870s, turn into the ghettos of the 1970s, which in turn take on the form of Z-zones in the 2070s.

I guess the question I have, is what makes Shadowrun fiction, well Shadowrun and not modern fiction with pointy ears and tusks. I mean I can turn it so that blacks become trolls, hispanics are orcs and WASPs are elves. Nothing changes, just the forehead aliens.

[RunnerPaul]

The problem I see is that with poverty there are few if any real changes.

Shadowrun's not strictly about poverty though, is it?

[Chrysalis]

Shadowrun's not strictly about poverty though, is it?

No, but it's about the haves and the have nots. Where the have nots are a large demographic to the have nots.

[Ravor]

What changes is the shear scope of it all, in the Sixth World everywhere is a shit hole, if you coudl find Camalot you'd discover that King Auther had fried his brain with BTLs, the Knights were nothing more than brutish thugs and Merlin can't really be called human anymore since an Eldritch Horror from beyond ate his soul and is wearing his skin like a poorly fitted suit.

Also there is the fact that no matter how poor you are, there are ways to augument your abilities to stay alive and in the game, but in doing so you are causing actual real and measurable damage to your very soul, how much of your humanity are you willing to trade in order to stay alive? Hell at what point is life no longer worth living?

[Ancient History]

It's true that the more things change, the more they stay the same. It's the year 2071, and we still have poverty, and pollution, and racism. Chances are these things will always be with us. What Shadowrun does have that is unique is twenty years of fluff contributing to the setting and backstory.

[Chrysalis]

Alright, what about the inverse? What makes the super rich of the 1870s as in Gone with the Wind, different from the 2070s golden kids?

[eidolon]

I like to think that it's that they are just as much part of the machine as the people at the bottom. I like to think that it's because for all his power, Damien Knight could be the victim of an unseen power play, or could see his company's stock plummet and be voted out.

I think your power brokers of the 1870s had a bit more direct control over events and their lives. But then, maybe not. Maybe there really isn't any difference, and that's what makes it such an awesome genre/setting. Maybe it really is just that there are elves and trolls.

But on the world in general, you do have those few main biggies. Extraterritoriality and corp armies.

Take reality, crank the cynicism Through the Fucking Roofâ„¢, emphasize lack of control, and pour on the acid rain.

[DWC]

That's the beauty of it. Nothing sets the people apart. The props and scenery change, but the top echelon of the haves are no different than they were in Rome or Egypt. The details of how they waste away their days might change a little bit, but the important parts of who they are never will. They're bored, they either secretly or overtly hate each other, and they pursue an ever increasingly appalling level of debauchery to sate a craving for excitement that will overpower the numbness that comes from having the world at their fingertips.

[Malachi]

I think you can abstract almost any setting into the base elements of human conflict.

[eidolon]

Surely. Most media and creative output is just interpretation and reflection of the human condition. Hell, all of it is. It's what we do.

[DWC]

That's also part of the beauty of it. The badly written stories aren't universal. The bad stuff is just juvenile worship of the details of the setting, more concerned with selling how cool a game world is than with actually telling a story universal enough to allow for a connection to the characters.

[pbangarth]

While I agree with the general tenor of the answers so far to Chrysalis' dilemma, I think there are two other aspects of Shadowrun-as-child-of-today that make it thunderingly interesting for me to play and read.

First, the absolute wonder of the multiverse has magnified along with the despair. I know the cyberpunk genre is all dark and gritty, but Shadowrun places that grittyness in accessible juxtaposition with the awesomeness and beauty of the worlds in which metahumanity exists. Both the grit and the sparkle are intensified because of this juxtaposition.

Second, the other elements of the universe have taken on a much more active agency in their own affairs and those of metahumanity. Dragons and Mother Nature are no longer metaphors, they are alive and chewing on our asses.

And all of this is extrapolated from my own world in as believable a way as can be done in a role playing game. That's what Shadowrun is to me.

[Bleifalke]

That's also part of the beauty of it. The badly written stories aren't universal. The bad stuff is just juvenile worship of the details of the setting, more concerned with selling how cool a game world is than with actually telling a story universal enough to allow for a connection to the characters.

Well put! Earthdawn, Shadowrun and soon a game called Equinox (set in the 8th world) all deal with the same universe, even if the time of the setting and rules are alot different. I like the fact these games are based on an alternative version of our own world, there will be alot of similarities. But I feel these games offer a more rich and detailed game setting then most other games based in a fictional world built from scratch.

I love the futuristic dystopia, with metahuman racism, layered with amazing magic (the magic in SR become more interesting if you know ED, in that game the teory of magic is more explained and the metaplanes described in more detail). I also love the fact that in this futuristic cyber punk world you have the feeling that all these ancient ledgends of the old magic cycle are just around the corner, waiting to be rediscovered. When they are, metakind (is that even a word?) will learn so much more then just the layout of a few 6000 year old ruins. Their worst fears will be realized when the knowledge of the arrival of horrors will become known to more then the dragons and the immortal elves. The immortal elves are the only link to the ED world I'm a bit sceptical about though, a bit to much soap opera going on there. Plus immortal, all powerful elves are a bit stereotypical, wouldn't you say?. I look forward to more 4th world artifacts beeing discovered and potentially finding atlantis (thera) again, and much much more.

[flowswithdrek]

I guess the question I have, is what makes Shadowrun fiction, well Shadowrun and not modern fiction with pointy ears and tusks. I mean I can turn it so that blacks become trolls, hispanics are orcs and WASPs are elves. Nothing changes, just the forehead aliens.

Well part of what makes shadowrun for me is the magic. You say WASPs are elves, how about your WASP goes to bed and wakes up a Troll, that’s shadowrun to me. How about your WASP is kidnapped and wakes up as a real WASP right down to the mandibles. Or the poor down trodden street urchin who gets kicked about daily suddenly is touched by magic rather than the pervert at the end of the street and starts slinging fireballs at the next drek head that pisses him off. Then add technology into the mix with all the different ways that has of messing with the metahuman, and presto that’s shadowrun for me.

[Backgammon]

Shadowrun fiction is different by the technology. But not the technology itself. A great writer said "Don'T write about technology, write about how it affects people.".

It isn't true that the toys get shinier but the way people play with them stays the same. Because of simsense, people can live out fantasies. What do you need a spouse for? People go through the motions of getting married and having children, but when everyone gets home their solace is not each other, it's each's private fantasy. Every girls gets a boob job while still in high school, makes her face just right, etc. What do boys learn about girls, other than only looks matter. What effect do you think that has, long term? Anyone that sticks to the system, living as a comparatively well paid corporate drone, gets enough money to blow it all on pharmaceuticals and minor surgery to keep themselves looking fresh and clean, while the poor suffer from acid rain, smog and the general toxic air around them, leaving a clear demarcation: the rich look healthy, the poor look shriveled and 20 years older. How can you get over such a physically apparent class demarcation?

The lazy thing to do in Shadowrun is to assume it's today with better toys. Society is profoundly different.

[The Jake]

No, but it's about the haves and the have nots. Where the have nots are a large demographic to the have nots.

I think that's just your perspective. There are numerous topics, themes, subcultures, etc, that exist which are unique to the setting. Granted many of the issues have modern day context (racism, prejudice, fear, etc) but that's what enables a reader to emphathize with the characters.

Have tried to describe how ubiquituous powerful personal computing is? That even SINless get access to public data terminals with access to information far beyond what we have today? What about AR? Magic? The size and grandier of the megacorps? I just don't think you're stretching your imagination.

- J.

[Chrysalis]

Hi Peter and flowswithdrek,

Wise words indeed. I think that I need to place that juxtaposition between the despair and the joy. I need to bring in the supernatural instead of focusing on the humdrum.

I agree that new technology causes us to think different and behave differently, we are by far more aware of our surroundings globally than we were before. But I find that people now, seek the same things that make up their happiness as they did before, they want the good car, the big belly, the money and the wilful ignorance.

The wilful ignorance makes for people who refuse to deal with the world-at-hand. They do not educate themselves and see no reason to challenge their world view. They want the world to change in only minor ways.

How about those who seek out the upsets in life? The ones who want to become vessels from the metaplanes, want to become wasps. Hoping to change. How are they different, from the man who is so upset with life that he walks over to the train tracks and lies down on the rails so the train will sheer off his leg?

Maybe I am not stretching my imagination, but would people really be interested in reading about how different VR makes the world? Where people live in it as if they were living in a real world. It is not science fiction for me, but science actual.

How does Shadowrun magic differ from D&D? How to make it so that it is an unknown element. It is not a hidden science, but has through the power of dumpshock taken on the veneer of science. What does magic bring to the world, which causes the reader to stop and ponder.

[CanRay]

Having played from Fantasy to Far Future, I can honestly say that history repeats itself indefinetly...

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The people who are the "Haves" use "Law and Order" (In whatever form) to keep themselves as "Haves".

The "Have Nots" are the people who weren't born to the "Haves". The idea that you can BECOME a "Have" if you were born a "Have Not" is an exceptionally new idea in the history of Mankind. And you better believe that the "Haves" are NOT happy with that. Damned Nouveau Riche.

Shadowrun (And Cyberpunk in general) borrows heavily from "Film Noir", "Punk", and a few other genras that escape me right now due to just getting home. I even pay homage to that with my first story, with the "Detective" having a "Hot Dame" come with a problem.

Of course, the "Detective" is heavily cybered up, and the "Hot Dame" is a Free Spirit.

As I said above, the more things change...

[CanadianWolverin...]

There is something interesting I find in Shadowrun when I have sparks of an idea picture to write about for my own personal enjoyment: In a world so dark and dire, wouldn't the most elusive thing be love, joy, and kindness? Of all the things in Shadowrun, how it gets distilled down makes one of the most intriguing elements to me is that there are Runners called Hooders, Pros, Pinks, Gangers, etc. The rage against the machine and those who don't mind being the grease and cogs that has to be the most bizarre part of the magical, technological, corporate corrupt world of SR4A 2072. Shadowrunners are friggin cool.

[tisoz]

Alright, what about the inverse? What makes the super rich of the 1870s as in Gone with the Wind, different from the 2070s golden kids?

For one, the way they go about exploiting people. Tactics have changed. Some things you used to be able to openly get away with now have to carried out in the shadows. New ways have been discovered and refined.

On the subject of writing on the whole, my writing courses did not allow the students to write in a genre, so that the student wouldn't lean on the crutches of the genre and would learn how to tell a story. So what I learned is yes, most stories can be set in many places. What makes shadowrun special is the differences from regular places. I imagine it very dystopian, where capitalism and exploitation have run wild. There is a huge gap between the haves and the have nots, and if you think you're in the middle, there are really several hands dipping in your pockets to fleece you - see my opening about exploiting people.

Imagine seeing a Help Wanted sign with a phone number at a nice looking place to work. One calls the number and finds it is a Temp agency and that is the only way the company hires. (Two or 3 layers removed, the same corp might just control both businesses, but even if anyone should learn of this, the corp would say one business knows how to do"x", whatever you are trying to get a job doing, and the Temp comp. knows personnel. So they are both in business geared to their strengths.) However, when one hires on, they find the going rate of pay they were quoted forgot to include Taxes, withholding for Insurance and dues and retirement and, etc., and they kind of forgot about the money one had to pay the Temp service to get the opportunity to be hired, like background checks, drug checks, licensing, permits, and outright bribes known as documentation fees, or the percentage that the Temp service is going to take every paycheck until you are hired on by the original company, which won't want to because then it costs them more if in nothing else unemployment compensation cotributions. Just think about all the scams there are for desperate people when looking for a way to support themslves. Think about all the deductions to paychecks there could be. Then figure there's 3 times as many people for every job than there is now and how much people would put up with to keep a job. Dystopia.

I'm not even getting into the resentment from new races living longer and having longer productive lives, thus keeping their job longer, and advancing further than a normal human could in a normal lifespan. I was born following the last of the "baby boomers" and it is funny seeing jobs that were available as I grew older and the experience they wanted. I can relate to future humans on my point. (Even personal ads seemed to always skip my age group.)

Throw in some decaying infrastructure from broke governments, and you have ore dystopia.

If you think Shadowrun is just like today only in the future with cyber and magic and some new races, I don't think you really get Shadowrun.

[Glyph]

I think some general things will remain the same (haves vs. have-nots), but the specifics will change.

The poor will be exploited in different ways - things like undocumented workers all being fitted with cheap skillwires and then having the skills they need broadcast into their brains. Bunraku puppets. Tamanous flesh farms. The toxic castles (pollution-spewing factories in the barrens).

The bread and circuses will change - people can put on their VR glasses and make their hovel look like the Ritz, or have a virtual pet wagging its tail when they get home. The water supply might have drugs to keep the populace placid and controllable.

The Barrens will change things - developed countries will have levels of poverty previously only seen in third world countries.

Magic and technology both change things, in that technology has escaped from its ivory tower, and magic can arise anywhere, in anyone. Neither will overturn the status quo, but boy will they ever shake it up a lot.

[The Jake]

I think you can abstract almost any setting into the base elements of human conflict.

This is what I was trying to say. I guess that it just comes down to go how these elements are influenced by the world around us.

- J.

[Blade]

"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
A lot of fiction written 50 years ago could be set in today's world without many changes, especially for the poor. As I said in another topic, if you take a Noir story and replace "Negro" with "Troll", "Hispanic" with "Ork" and the rich WASP with elves, you'd get something that could as well be a Shadowrun story. (Incidentally, this is also because most Noir stories are set in a societal context that has much in common with Shadowrun's)

Then there are elements that can only be in a Shadowrun story. As some said, the effect of magic and tech on people have lead to some behavior and situations that can only happen in the Sixth World. But even then in a lot of cases, as Glyph says, it's more the specifics than the themes that will be affected. Some new themes can still be introduced: the themes that transhumanism brings are harder to integrate in a 1870. Even if some of them can be linked to the industrial revolution, there's still a big difference between using a machine and being a machine.

And then there's also the "caricature" aspect of Cyberpunk: in a lot of cases, Cyberpunk is pushing things to the extreme. It's something hard to do without being ridiculous or disbelief-suspending, but, in my opinion, it's something you have to do to make something feel Cyberpunk.

But all things considered, in my opinion, it's not a problem if the story could be set in any other time: a good story is still a good story. To me a Noir story with the aforementioned replacements would feel more like Shadowrun (and I'd enjoy it more) than World Without End which uses elements that are specific to Shadowrun but feels more like 'Fantasy in the future' than 'Shadowrun' (yes, I'm aware that it's the end of a Earthdawn series).

[Dikotana]

In Shadowrun, the rich are richer and the poor are poorer. But also note that what this means has vastly expanded as well. If you're rich, you can have your body more or less customized to be exactly what you want. Your mind can be augmented with bioware and cyberware to give you every advantage even as a non-combatant. Make enough money and you can live a longer, healthier life. And we're not talking "exercise and diet" statistical gains. No, this is Léonization and gaining centuries if you have the nuyen. And all that's leaving out the genetic tweaks you can leave to your offspring, who start out even more ahead of the game.

The gap is too large and the walls are too high to just cross without a miracle... or modern siege equipment.

How is this different? Strip away the fantasy and cyberpunk trappings, and it isn't. It's just a fantastic mirror held up to the present. That's what most fiction is.

[Degausser]

To me, Shadowrun is being about down in the gutter. Doing evil things to get by, because everyone else does evil things too. In my mind, everything in shadowrun is dark and usually filthy. Though the movie is horrible, I view the environment of shadowrun as the setting of Johnny Numonic, everything was dark, dirty, and smoke-filled. Even the rich mobsters in the movie don't really have a nice, brightly lit place to hang.

Another thing that you should take into account are businesses. Essentially, they can get away with anything. Human experiments, price-gouging, litterally they can screw over anyone and everyone, because they are sovergn entities and THEY MAKE THE RULES. Sure, they have to abide by local governments, when operating within them (a.k.a. Ares has to obey all UCAS laws when in the UCAS) but on their own soil, they can do whatever they like. It's like the robber-barrons of the 1930s.

Essentially, the world is effed up big time. You have to paranoid, or dead. You have to be smart, or you will become a virtual (or actual) slave. Everything and everyone will take you for everything you are worth, and very, very few people will help you out. And all the while the air is so polluted it's toxic, everyone lives in a filthy apartment, and there are ten gangs willing to shiv you as soon as you step out the door.

I may paint a very stark picture, and sure it isn't always like that, but getting into that mindset will help you understand how to write shadowrun stuff.