Looking to play...or GM... Options

[Penta]

Did you not just see me say I don't wanta restat stuff?

[CollateralDynamo]

Alright, fair enough.

I agree with Milk Ducks that we need something big. I'm not quite as convinced as our GM that you can fit people 20 people comfortably living on a classique, but we'll run with that assumption, it makes the numbers easier anyway. However, I also agree that a Classique doesn't feel right for the campaign. I see that Penta is allowing us to take the Classique without the luxury lifestyle mod saving us 10 grand. I also see that anything that was once militarized is well outside of our price range.

Basically the only statted vehicle that we can both afford and fit in comfortably seems to be the Classique. So, my thought process is "what has the same stats (roughly) as a luxury yacht, without the luxury?" Poor handling, not so great acceleration, but plenty of capacity. I am thinking some sort of Fishing Trawler. However, with our price range, we'll probably have something more like this. But I am cool with that, its dingy, its gritty, and its got character.

So, how do people feel about an old converted fishing vessel as our primary base of operations? I'm particularly interested in Knight's opinion as captain. It would be cool if we could go with something old mil spec, but unfortunately all of that seems too small or out of our price range.

[CollateralDynamo]

Ooh, can I modify my HK to have an internal magazine and be clip fed? That should make reloading easier... I can bring back the en bloc clip from the M1 Garand...

There are alot of fun things you can do with the Arsenal rules for modding weapons. I'm away from that book at the moment, but I'm pretty sure you can do something similar with actual rules before you need to go poking at a gm for rules mods. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Penta]

Exactly, CD!
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You guys have 500k nuyen total from your employer for whatever the heck you choose to buy (boat, common gear like diving stuff, ship weapons, mods to the ship, whatever). This 500k is a rock-hard un-expandable number. Think of this like packing for the journey when you played Oregon Trail in grade school.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Employer advised you during your initial meet that you'll want to blend in, especially in the Carib.
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Now, part of the reason why I suggested the yacht is that it does that - in Florida and the Carib, speaking as someone whose parents have a condo down there in FL, those small yachts are actually pretty common. True enough in 2009, I see no reason it'd change by 2072.

It also was what the last group used, so I did all the math already 2 years ago.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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If you guys want to write up the ship as lightly-used, okay, though no stat changes. If you want to build a ship with R3 and convert it over, okay - though you'll be doing all the math!:P

[MusicMan]

There are alot of fun things you can do with the Arsenal rules for modding weapons. I'm away from that book at the moment, but I'm pretty sure you can do something similar with actual rules before you need to go poking at a gm for rules mods. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Nope, SR totally failed to distinguish between "clips" and "magazines." In fact... it's kinda lame that they are confusing the two, as any serious marksman will slap you over the head and give you a stern talking-to for calling a magazine a "clip." In fact, I have to resist the urge to correct it every time I see it on here... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

The other thing that I didn't see in Arsenal was muzzle breaks (to include flash suppressors and recoil compensators)... though I guess that technically could be a Gas Vent I system. They also totally ignore the concept of rail systems, which are pretty much ubiquitous on modern firearms.

Then again, a firearm's "power" is based on it's caliber, and the difference between individual handguns is mostly a matter of personal preference. For the most part, there should be little variation between weapons in the same class (up to assault rifles). IRL there is no difference in the stopping power between a High-Point 9mm and a HK MP-5; the MP5 is just a better (read: more stable) platform. The only difference between a SMG and a handgun is the SMG's ability to be set to full-auto and its larger size makes it more stable enabling better control over the weapon.

I would like to see another stat added to the weapons though: reliability. That is the main difference between most firearms, how well they can resist malfunctions. If they stated a reliability code as well, the number could be the weapon's ability to resist glitches (or at least, downgrade them). I think that there should have also been a sidebar in arsenal about the types of malfunctions that can occure with a firearm.

[Penta]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/extinguish.gif)

SR is meant to be abstract.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[MusicMan]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/extinguish.gif)

SR is meant to be abstract.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Cause all those modification rules in Arsenal and all that stuff in Rigger 3 is totally "abstract." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Penta]

Touche.

[MusicMan]

Just remember: shooting a M-16 requires a totally different skill than shooting an AR-15...

.. but if it makes you feel any better, glitches do happen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11fcg543Jow

[Marwynn]

I'm going to presume 1 body per person for living....Only, however, if the vehicle is body 12 or higher, though, and only for ships. (IOW, aircraft and other things you wouldn't expect to live on for months have no living space). This presumes, at middle lifestyle, you have roommates. The H&W classique III, for reference, I'm presuming can hold about 20 people. RW yachts do at least that well. Cargo we will abstract severely.

I remember that rule re costs, thought it was 1 usd=1 nuyen. However, yes, go out and seek.

No, I don't really want to have to restat stuff.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So then we can all squeeze into a Zemlya-Poltava Crest?

It's a whopping 200k less than the Classique, though it is known as a speedboat. Half the body of the Classique and 2 points less armour but it has a topspeed of 80.

I just don't see plenty of stats for big ol' ships in SR4, and I'd prefer something less obvious than a speedboat. It could be worth considering, and our employer could perhaps pay for mods to a ship we capture ourselves. We can lavish our attention upon it then, instead of starting out with a fully fleshed out boat.

But I'm going to dig through the SR3 books just in case. I don't fancy we'd survive for long in speedboat.

[MusicMan]

The idea was that we could use the classique as a floating FOB, but use a Zodiac for actual runs.

[Marwynn]

Yeah I got that. What I meant was could we instead use the Crest as our Mothership and acquire the rest.

Is the Classique good with everyone? I'm alright with it to be honest.

[MusicMan]

I think we would have more flexibility with the classique... I know that Penta her Rigger 3, and that has some other stats for the boat that he is using.

I pretty much think that we have received the Voice of God that the classique should be our starting ship...

[CollateralDynamo]

I'm fine with it, its modifiable and could make for an interesting base of operations. I heard dissent on the concept earlier tho.

[budoka05]

In regards to out budget, I just realized that we should set aside fund to take care of Docking Fees, Waste Disposal Fees, Boat Taxes, etc.

Unless we can go off the map for those things of course (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Penta]

It's not Voice of God at all.

When I do Voice of God, it'll be really, really clear. I leave voice of God for the important shit, like no lasers.

No, at the moment it's an earnest suggestion.
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I'm going to presume that fees, taxes, etc. are so marginal as to be unnoticable. Say a flat 50 yen. I certainly don't want to have to bother with em.

[CollateralDynamo]

Hey guys, it sounds like we are least taking the stats for a classique, if not a classique itself. As such I whipped up some thought on mods for it that I want you guys to kick around and give me some opinions on. The cost comes out a little high already, so we may need to pull it back as we pick out other things. I'll thumb through arsenal tonight and try to pick us out some diving gear and food and the like, someone did some work on that earlier I believe.

Classique III (24 available mod slots)
-03,000 Pilot (Upgrade to 3)

-01,000 Additional Fuel Tank (For when we just can't make port)
-05,000 ECM Rating 5
-02,500 Fuzzy Logic (Helps when the ship needs to pilot itself)
-01,250 Improved Economy (Doubles Economy, GM says that fuel economy will be monitored, so this seems a good buy)
-05,000 Lock-On Countermeasures (Need it, and don't have it....)
-02,500 Nitrous Injection (Its the only affordable speed booster)
-05,000 Personal Armor Rating 10 (Adds 10 Dice to damage resistance tests if inside the vehicle)
-02,500 Rigger Adaptation
-03,000 Shielded Smuggling Compartment (A)
-03,000 Shielded Smuggling Compartment (B)
-00,600 Winch (Classic)
Total Cost: 225K (ship w/o luxury mod) + 34.35K (13 Slots of Upgrades)

Expensive (but undoubtedly handy) Options:
-20,000 Concealed Armor Rating 20 (-4 perception to notice armor, ballistic and impact armor, costs 1,000 per rating 20 max)
-12,000 Sun Cell (This doubles economy again as long as the sun is present. It is somewhat costly and I don't see whether this would double our base economy, or our modified economy, can I get a GM ruling on this?)
-08,000 Signature Masking Rating 4 (this negates 4 points of sensors. There are two problems with it, the availability is higher then what is usually acceptable at char gen. So I need to know if the GM signs off on it, it also takes up 4 mod slots, but we have the slots to spare)
-48,000 Hydrofoil Capability (By far the most expensive upgrade on my list, doubles speed and halves fuel economy. This is the only real upgrade I see that gives us a chance to escape another vessel. But the cost is really harsh. Thoughts?)

If we take all of this the cost goes up by about 75K and 8 slots...like I said, expensive.

Final note, Rigger Cocoon, do we need one? I think not.

What do you guys think of these mods? Things to add? Remove? I'm still very flexible. What random gear do we need to buy? How many Zodiacs do we want?

Budoka05 Raises a good point, we should save some of the money if that is possible, but i think somewhere between 20 and 50k would be more then enough for fees and emergency costs.

[Penta]

The Classique (and all ships I can see from SR4 or Arsenal) seems to run on diesel, so I don't know how much a SunCell would help - sorta sidestepping that ruling, yes.

I'll waive avail on the sig masking.

"Inside the vehicle", for a ship, I'm going to rule means "belowdecks", ie inside the superstructure or other enclosed spaces. If it's exposed to weather, it ain't covered by personal armor.

I cannot tell by RAW if a ship is meant to have two smuggling compartments.

[CollateralDynamo]

The books are kind of ambiguous. Basically I want to have it set up so we have two seperate places to stash things. So, even in the worst case only half our illegal things get found. Or if we have to show port authority something...we only need to empty out one. Is that only one upgrade?

[MusicMan]

VOG has said that the SunCell is not available for the Classique.

I don't really think that we need the speed upgrades. I think we should focus more on having a vehicle that will pass an inspection and look "innocent." The Classique should be a BASE not a weapons platform. We're not going to be flying a skull and cross-bones from the mast, and no one should have a reason to chase us.

That being said, even with hydrofoil, engine upgrades, and nitrous... a stock security craft could still catch up to us; making the whole idea pointless. On that note, the concealed armor is a little much, and I think we would be better off with the mod that lets us change the colour of the ship (can't remember the name). I agree with all of your initial mods, but I don't think we need concealed armor or the hydrofoil, and I've already gotten a "no" from Penta on the SunCell. Perhaps multifuel engine?

[Penta]

I...Y'know what, I'm going to say yes, one upgrade.

Because I can't tell either what the heck was meant.

[MusicMan]

Oh, and I'd skip on personal armor... it's a waste on something that is not supposed to be a fighting ship.

[Penta]

MusicMan: You're thinking of chameleon coating.

[Marwynn]

I think two Zodiacs with one unassembled and stored on the Classique should be good for us.

I like 'em all, and I vote for your upgrades as well. But I don't see any guns.

Also, what about the Ducted Waterjet? -4 to detect it. Satellite Communication? Also are we adding Gunports, Weapon Mounts, Torp Launchers? Drone Racks?

Whoops, replied late. Though I don't think it'd be too bad if we get pulled over and have a few guns, our employer will square that away won't they? Cham Coating sounds great. But I'm still for some concealed armour, we'll be sailing around in an Armour 8 boat.

[CollateralDynamo]

The personal armor is cheap and only restricted. You won't get any argument from me that this place is a base and not a weapons platform. But I think defense will be important. Even the best laid plans...who knows who we will piss off, when the mob comes knocking for us while at port we'll want some armor.

I hadn't run the numbers and you're right, I can dump the speed boosts.

If we are dumping all the armor, then we may as well dump all the jamming, and evasion mods of all types. We can't assume that we won't get shot at, as a matter of fact I think we need to assume the opposite. Are we really going to use 250 grand on "random required goods"? I don't think so, with this extra money we need to invest in defenses, and those defenses include making sure that our boat can take damage. I agree that concealed armor 20 may be excessive, but if we have the cash, there is no written rule that says its easier to spot then rating 1.

Anyone else want to weigh in on this issue?