Looking to play...or GM... Options

[MusicMan]

The "Medicine Shop" is called a "Valkyrie Station." I was insisting on one of those from the get-go.

A few notes:

1. Ear is our rigger, I figure that if we are fighting, he can be doing better things than working a LMG.
1a. Milk Ducks operates a LMG at a 3 because of his specialisation
1b. I have a 2
2. I was suggesting the shop, mostly as a joke. However, note that between me and ears we have alot of armorer skill running around.
3. I think that ship repairs might be best left to a drydock, between us we can probably jury rig the ship to run long enough to get there
4. We might want to invest in leasing a warehouse for our "runs."
5. Perhaps we can let kids run up on the warehouse in the Zodiac while most of us play "Opposing Forces."

Actually, runs we can offer:

1. the kids start on our boat, and assault the warehouse.
2. the kids start at the warehouse and assault the boat.
3. the kids are on the boat and have to fend off an attack
4. the kids are at the warehouse and have to fend off an attack

We can either be their opponents, or--if they can put together a large enough group--we can let them play against eachother with us giving them "professional advice."

[Ears]

1. Ear is our rigger, I figure that if we are fighting, he can be doing better things than working a LMG.

Uh, things such as what?

Mad mechanic skillz? Check.
Rigger? Run fer the hills!

[CollateralDynamo]

Karoline and Whizbang are rolling the rigging aptitude in the party. Ears is a combat guy who likes to build stuff...but he has in own very favorite gun, so that does limit the needs for a common LMG. However, if we need to lay down suppressive fire, they still might be worthwhile, I'll probably switch them to be on pods and therefore cheaper. But I am pretty sure Knight will like the added fire potential and will most likely be skilled with those weapons. Enough of the skill is running around that I feel justified in purchasing two of these weapons, but if you guys want we can reduce it to one.

[Ears]

Previews experience with firepower heavy groups tells me: If you know how many machine guns you have you need to get more.

Seriously, put them on a smart firing platform, load 'em with blanks and scare the rich kids senseless with simulated fire from everywhere.
Throw in real ammo and you just got yourself a cute guard dog.

[Karoline]

Uh, things such as what?

Mad mechanic skillz? Check.
Rigger? Run fer the hills!

Aww, come on ears, you know you want to be our rigger (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anyway, I suppose a nautical or aeronautics would be best as those will be the specialties of my character (And generally the most useful on a boat) though I personally have trouble picturing a vast difference between the tools required to fix drones/vehicles of various sizes. Perhaps we could pay double to have it apply to all types of mechanics? I mean they all need wrenches and... ummm... other mechanic tools... It isn't like the difference between nautical and aeronautics based tools are going to be quite as huge as the difference between nautical and hardware or nautical and medicine (You know, good medicine)

I'll just wait for Penta to say one way or the other.

P.S. If a medicine 'shop' is sufficient to do so, I think my character will have the requisite skills to install 'ware.

[Penta]

Cyber/Bio repair to me would seem to require a facility. The medical station is essentially a non-mobile medkit, by the desc in Aug (pg 124). You need to pick its rating.

Now, were you to go with a medical shop, mobile or non-mobile, it's kind of like a nursing station. It can do standard lab tests, store medications, etc. It's essentially a clinic.

A medical facility, finally, is an OR, if you make an inference from Aug that Tacoma General has 6 medical facilities...6 sounds, conveniently, like a nice number of operating rooms for a big hospital to have.

[Karoline]

Cyber/Bio repair to me would seem to require a facility. The medical station is essentially a non-mobile medkit, by the desc in Aug (pg 124). You need to pick its rating.

Now, were you to go with a medical shop, mobile or non-mobile, it's kind of like a nursing station. It can do standard lab tests, store medications, etc. It's essentially a clinic.

A medical facility, finally, is an OR, if you make an inference from Aug that Tacoma General has 6 medical facilities...6 sounds, conveniently, like a nice number of operating rooms for a big hospital to have.

Didn't figure the medical station would be able to do cyber/bio repair, but would a medical shop? Perhaps even enough to do ware instillation. I mean you generally go to a shadow 'clinic' to get your wares anyway, and there is a description of some places where you have wares installed being little more than a clean(ish) room with some medical supplies.

Also, did you have any ruling on getting a 'general' mechanic shop that would be able to handle all four types at something like double the price of a normal shop? (Since they all use such similar tools)

[Penta]

Aww, come on ears, you know you want to be our rigger (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anyway, I suppose a nautical or aeronautics would be best as those will be the specialties of my character (And generally the most useful on a boat) though I personally have trouble picturing a vast difference between the tools required to fix drones/vehicles of various sizes. Perhaps we could pay double to have it apply to all types of mechanics? I mean they all need wrenches and... ummm... other mechanic tools... It isn't like the difference between nautical and aeronautics based tools are going to be quite as huge as the difference between nautical and hardware or nautical and medicine (You know, good medicine)

I'll just wait for Penta to say one way or the other.

P.S. If a medicine 'shop' is sufficient to do so, I think my character will have the requisite skills to install 'ware.

I addressed the medicine issue a post above.

As far as the difference between nautical and aeronautics...

I'm going to split the difference. If you pick one, you have the tools to do the other as if you were defaulting, so at a -1 penalty.

Additionally, in the nautical case - you don't really have the capabilities in a shop to perform major repairs, which would require a drydock. This is especially the case for hull damage. You can, at best, patch damage.

In the aeronautics case - Major repairs require a facility, but "line repairs" (basically, anything that would logically only require swapping parts) can be done with a shop.

To be really honest, I cannot fathom what is meant by an aeronautics mechanics or nautical mechanics 'kit'. I can barely fathom what is meant by a shop. A facili8ty is the most-readily imaginable creature out of the three - a drydock or repair depot.

[budoka05]

Karoline makes a good point. Can we get add some surgical ability to our medical station by purchasing the appropriate medical supplies? Scalpels, a surgical table, clamps, suction machines, by pass, blood infusers, that sort of that thing? Just enough to take patch up any serious bullet wounds and it won't be a full OR.

That is unless our God Penta rules a standard medical station (rating 6 preferably) would take care of such wounds without additional medical supplies/equipment?

[Penta]

Didn't figure the medical station would be able to do cyber/bio repair, but would a medical shop? Perhaps even enough to do ware instillation. I mean you generally go to a shadow 'clinic' to get your wares anyway, and there is a description of some places where you have wares installed being little more than a clean(ish) room with some medical supplies.

Also, did you have any ruling on getting a 'general' mechanic shop that would be able to handle all four types at something like double the price of a normal shop? (Since they all use such similar tools)

The fluff is really, really inconsistent as to what's required to install/repair 'ware....And frankly, I'm not sure, even after reading aug, what a medical shop is supposed to be. A clinic was just my best guess.

I'm going to rule on the general mechanic shop issue later. You're right that the tools are similar - but the problem is what the hell do the rules envision at each level of repair? Facility is easy - a drydock, a repair depot, etc. Shop is harder to envisage. Kit...Well, damn, I can't think of many nautical or aerospace repair tasks that, realistically, require any less than what might be envisaged by a shop. A shop, I might let you get away with (very) jury-rigged patches to the ship. Aircraft I have no good handle on. And a kit, well. A kit I can't possibly imagine. Aircraft and ships are simply too complex for that in the real world.

In short, it needs some arguing.

[Penta]

Karoline makes a good point. Can we get add some surgical ability to our medical station by purchasing the appropriate medical supplies? Scalpels, a surgical table, clamps, suction machines, by pass, blood infusers, that sort of that thing? Just enough to take patch up any serious bullet wounds and it won't be a full OR.

That is unless our God Penta rules a standard medical station (rating 6 preferably) would take care of such wounds without additional medical supplies/equipment?

Now now, I'm not your God...I'm God's delegated assistant.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This is really an issue where I'd like opinions: What do -you guys- see a medical kit/station/shop/facility being?

Similar for nautical mechanics and aeronautics mechanics. What do you see a kit/shop/facility as?

[Karoline]

To be really honest, I cannot fathom what is meant by an aeronautics mechanics or nautical mechanics 'kit'. I can barely fathom what is meant by a shop. A facili8ty is the most-readily imaginable creature out of the three - a drydock or repair depot.

Well, I'd imagine that a kit/shop is more designed to deal with drones than with a full fledged plane/boat. That and it would include the sorts of tools to go repair the engine and just general maintenance. I never figured a shop on a boat would be able to handle hull type repairs of any kind on the boat itself.

[Karoline]

Now now, I'm not your God...I'm God's delegated assistant.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This is really an issue where I'd like opinions: What do -you guys- see a medical kit/station/shop/facility being?

Similar for nautical mechanics and aeronautics mechanics. What do you see a kit/shop/facility as?

Woo, description time! (No posts for so long and now we're getting all overlapped)

So, for a nautical/aeronatuics mechanic kit I would envision something like a collection of the different kinds of adjustable wrenches (Monkey wrench, allen wrench, etc). Throw in some screwdrivers, bolts, nuts, lugs, washers, whatever, and of course some 2072 duck tape and you have enough to handle basic repairs to a vehicle (Basically all the kind of stuff you might have to work on your own car)

A shop would include all of these tools, but with a wider verity. It wouldn't just have adjustable monkey wrench, it would have dozens of different sized ones, for working with really small or hard to get at things, as well as particular large things. It would also very notably include space and tools to hold parts. Clamps, adjustable lights, plugs, maybe even going down to things like soldering tools. That is the sort of thing a real diehard car head might have converted their garage into. Basically everything they really need to work on their car more or less.

A facility would be a shop on a large scale, and would more or less be similar to the garage where you take your car to get fixed. For the most part they have the same tools as what is in a shop, but they all come in power verity, and they have hydraulic lifts .

I think a dry-dock would be something entirely different from a nautical mechanic facility. It would be the place you put your ship while you use the attached facility to work on it.

As for the medicine verities, I see medicine kit as being the 2072 equivalent of the medieval 'doctors bag' in which you have scalpel, tweasers, needle, thread, bandages, forceps, and all the bare requirements of performing a surgery wherever you are.

At the shop level I see something along the lines of your standard OR. It is clean, it has tons of tools and drugs and movable lights. At the facility level I see more ER grade things, and just a better OR. It includes the electronic microscope with giant plasma TV, it has limitless shelves of supplies, it likely has its own sink. It is also just plain -bigger- so that more staff can move around easily. And in the world of SR I'm sure some of the defining diffrences between shop and facility would be things like robotic arms or drones to help out with tasks, integrated specialized software, and large databases of relevant knowledge.

[milk ducks]

Been quiet for a few pages, but only because the conversation's a bit over my head. I have very little actual SR-game experience, so my input is worth very little in discussions like this. I've been monitoring everything, though, and I really like how things are taking shape. Keep up the good work guys, hopefully we can start playing soon.

-milk.

[Karoline]

Nooo! My triple post!

Anyway, finally got a chance to look over the mods to the yacht (With my book on hand) and had a few questions:
First off, doesn't the ECM 6 mean that we will be basically unable to use wireless on the ship? I guess that would be only when we turn it on, but I just want to make sure that I'm right about that.

Second, what is the operation time of the ship? I notice we've gone through and gotten improved economy and an additional fuel tank, so I'm just curious what kind of run time we have. (Since we have 4x normal operation time)

Do we have drone that is designated to use the drone rack?

Those are my big questions for now.

[Karoline]

So, read through arsenal and it says that you only require a medical shop in order to be able to perform the surgery required to install wares, so a medical shop might be nice to help with healing, reduce ware cost, and make getting the ware easier as you don't need to find someone to install it.

[Penta]

Quick bits:

I'm basically not using op time from Arsenal - rather, I'm borrowing the Classique's fuel economy from R3 and using that.

Hours of op time makes wonderful sense in a car running on solar/grid power. Not so much when you speak of a ship, running on diesel, that should be able to go for days, if not weeks between refuelings.

If anyone has a better idea, throw it at me.
---

You may be -able- in theory to install ware with a shop...But I'm gonna rule "Not on a ship". At least, not of this size.

Why? Because ships pitch. And roll. And generally do not stay still, even when stopped. As it would suck if the scalpel slipped or something...Well. You can think it out from there.

There's also the purely OOC consideration that it would make things too easy.

However, I will allow maintenance of ware aboard ship.

[CollateralDynamo]

Karoline:

ECM 6 will effectively jam pretty much everything yeah. Thats kind of the point. If you are concerned about getting jammed as we go into a high speed boat chase, we have skinlinks to the ship, it would, however, sever remote connections to any drones you might be using. The ECM is a final line of defense that we will HOPEFULLY never need. As you may note in our "group gear" section we have a pretty nice directional jammer that will hopefully see much more use.

I don't have R3, but from what Penta says it sounds like we can go at least a month between refueling. Seems wise to me to have that kind of flexibility for when it becomes "hiding time".

Currently the drone rack is empty, feel free to negotiate with whizbang for its real-estate.

I don't have too much of an opinion as far as the shops go, but I will say this: GM has said that repairs to our ship while on ship will be difficult. With that statement being made, lets go with an aeronautics shop so that we can default it into a nautical shop in case of emergency. As for medical shops, it would be a nice option to get our wares installed by a PC, but I agree with Penta, a shipboard surgical room is very risky business. And besides, the hardest part of getting wares installed is finding someone who can do it, not finding a place where it can be done. As long as we have someone we can trust while we are under, we can rent out a seedy medical shop in any one of a dozen port cities.

[Karoline]

Quick bits:

I'm basically not using op time from Arsenal - rather, I'm borrowing the Classique's fuel economy from R3 and using that.

Hours of op time makes wonderful sense in a car running on solar/grid power. Not so much when you speak of a ship, running on diesel, that should be able to go for days, if not weeks between refuelings.

If anyone has a better idea, throw it at me.

Totally agreed. Arsenal does make mention that ships tend to have weeks to months of op time. Telling me that your using the fuel economy from R3 doesn't help much though, as I don't know what that is. I'm curious how long we can stay on the water without refueling (Food and water concerns aside).

As for the medical stuff, if it is an OOC concern then we won't have it and that is that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Pitching/rolling wouldn't be a big issue on a ship of this size as long as we're in calm water. Even more so since that pitching tends to be very steady and thus doesn't affect things much once you have your sea legs. Regardless I'll not argue the point any more, if GM doesn't want us to have it, we don't have it. The med station should suffice for taking care of basic injuries, and cyberware repairs can come on over to the machine shop (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Edit: Alright, just wanted to check that that was what would happen. I need to know that sort of thing in advance so I can set my drones up to respond to the ECM being kicked in.

Hmmm, negotiation is only a 1.. going to be hard to get that space (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Oh, and agreed about having a very long op time. I suppose we could even carry some extra fuel in the cargo hold for last ditch needs.

[Penta]

Well, I thought it was in this thread...Ugh, lemme look through R3R (damned un-OCR'd PDFs) and find the base fuel economy.

Edit: Found it in thread from 2 years ago when I last tried this concept - H & W Classique (Yacht) at 500 liters of diesel economy at 2 km/liter, 1000 km range.

I'm gonna adjust the fuel economy to 2.6 km/liter to represent more efficient engines since the Crash 2.0...And since Rigger 3 generally. Adjust the range accordingly.

[Karoline]

Well, I thought it was in this thread...Ugh, lemme look through R3R (damned un-OCR'd PDFs) and find the base fuel economy.

Edit: Found it in thread from 2 years ago when I last tried this concept - H & W Classique (Yacht) at 500 liters of diesel economy at 2 km/liter, 1000 km range.

I'm gonna adjust the fuel economy to 2.6 km/liter to represent more efficient engines since the Crash 2.0...And since Rigger 3 generally. Adjust the range accordingly.

So, we have 2.6 * 500 * 2 * 2 = 5200 km range, which is about 3250 miles. We can float around basically as long as our supplies hold out, though if we just float too long we're eventually going to have to burn some fuel to keep electrical stuff on the ship working, though I'd imagine that would be fairly darn minimal.

So, sounds like we have about as much operation time as we have food on the ship (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Penta]

I should note that that's for cruising speed...Not a tactically-useful speed.

Please do not ask me the speed of the ship in knots or meters per turn...I would have to do hydrodynamics. I don't know *how* to do hydrodynamics.

I would thus have to ThorCow you.

[CollateralDynamo]

UGH! My head is too full of numbers, I am resigning as gear designated gear getter guy after this post. We are still missing any sort of food or water (how do you want to handle that stuff Penta). And I was not able to get us TWO zodiac ships but I got us 1 tricked out one...

Purchases with the 500,000 Loan:

[ Spoiler ]

The Boat (still needs a name):

[ Spoiler ]

Classique III 225000
Additional Fuel Tank 1000
Aeronautics Shop 5000
Autosoft: Clearsight (3) 1500
Autosoft: Maneuver (3) 1500
Concealed Armour (20) 20000
Chameleon Coating 24000
Complete Skinlink 5000
Drone Rack (Small) 1000
ECM (6) 6000
Fuzzy Logic 2500
Improved Economy 4375
Improved Sensor Array 1000
Interior Cameras 2400
Lock-on Countermeasures 5000
Personal Armour (10) 5000
Pilot 3 3000
Rigger Adaptation 2500
Satellite Communication 500
Signature Masking (6) 12000
Smuggling Compartment(Sh) 6000
Winch (Std) 600

Total: 334875

Running Gear:

[ Spoiler ]

Autopicker Rtg 6 1200
Catalyst Stick x 4 480
Chemsuit Rating 6 x 4 2400
Climbing Gear x 6 1200
Directional Jammer Rating 7 1400
Diving Gear x 5 10000
GPS x 10 2000
Grappel Gun x 4 2000
Keycard Copier Rtg 6 1800
Light Sticks x 50 250
Med Station Rating 6 420
Mini-Welder x 3 750
Monofilament Chaisaw x 3 900
NanoPaste Disguise, Large x 5 5000
NanoPaste Disguise, Small x 10 5000
Rapelling Gloves x 10 700
Stealth Rope (400 meters) 340
Survival Kit x 5 500
Tag Eraser x 5 750
White Noise Generator Rtg 6 300
Wire Clippers x 5 125

Total: 37540

IDs and Permits:

[ Spoiler ]

Fake SIN Rating 4 x 10 40000
Fake Permits Rating 4 x 10 4000
- permit to own modified yacht
- permit for concealed armor
- permit for chameleon
- permit for fuzzy logic
- permit for interior cameras
- permit for lock-on countermeasures
- permit for personal armor
- permit to shoot footage
- permit to own "realistic replicas"
- permit to carry passengers

Total: 44000

Dakka:

[ Spoiler ]

Ingram White Knight x2 10800
- With tripods
- 2 belts of ex ex each
M79B1 LAW x 5 3750
- with external smartlink 2000
Foam Explosives (10) x 5 5000
5 Timer Detonators 175
5 Radio Detonators 200
2 Smart Firing Platforms 4000

Total: 25925

Other Vehicles:

[ Spoiler ]

Thundercloud Contrail x2 10000
- Autosoft: Maneuver (3) 3000


Zodiac Boat 30000
- Autosoft: Covert Ops (3) 1500
- Ducted Waterjet 2000
- Manual Override (DrivexWire) 500
- Pilot 3 3000
- Smoke Projector 700
- Searchlight 1200

Total: 40200
[u]Aggregated: 482540 /u]

[Penta]

Thank you for the numbers work, CD. You've earned the 2 karma previously awarded.

I stated...a bunch of pages back how I'm going to handle food. Water we're...Y'know what, we're gonna assume it's included with food.

You have 17640 for this stuff, since it wasn't included with the rest (and since if you don't spend part of the loan, you lose it).

To recap, though, from here, as I stated there:

"Nutrisoy for low lifestyle is cheap with minimal flavorings, costing maybe cents for a day's worth; 14 days provisions costs maybe :nuyen:1000 for a group of 10 people with ordinary eating rates. Middle lifestyle, you get nutrisoy, but it's with every flavor assortment you can imagine, and you also get fresh fruits and veggies, though the cost is closer to :nuyen:2500. High, it's fresh fruits, a limited supply of real meat, and real alcohol, costing closer to :nuyen:5000. Keep in mind that, while the USN is "dry" mostly because of the long-ago Prohibitionist motives of Josephus Daniels, there are good reasons why you don't want alcohol aboard ship.)"

Water is included with all levels of provisions. I could price it out, and if I were motivated to I would, because fresh water is something generally rationed aboard ships. But for our purposes, presume you have enough for daily needs (short showers, not long showers, that kind of thing), regardless of provision level picked otherwise.

You buy provisions in 14-day increments.

Weather forecasts:

Again, to recap from that post:

"Weather: will be a factor. ICly, the Caribbean is (mostly) covered by the various national weather offices (the UCAS and CAS both, for the record, maintain the National Weather Service as a governmental operation (Public fury nuked any chance of privatization in the early part of the 20th century, after private forecasters were caught "degrading" emergency forecasts to encourage subscriptions)), and there's generally cooperation among all parties on technical matters. Forecasts have not improved in accuracy - the Awakening messed with weather patterns worldwide, screwing forecasting models all to hell, and the Crash of 29 forced mass-rebuilding of the sensor networks (in a fit of enlightened self-interest, the corps actually did donate the gear and the cash to help set it up - everybody gets screwed by hurricanes, after all), which was completed in 2037. As such, it's only been in the last 30 years that a consistent, full-coverage collection of weather data has been resumed. Error rates and accuracy are at the same level as in 2007, mostly because nobody has again put forth the massive amounts of computer power that would be needed to improve it any farther. The 2070 Atlantic hurricane season was active but non-fatal (no storms made landfall, but 2 Category 4 and higher storms did develop), and January in the Caribbean region is almost perfect weather."

From post 67:

"Forgot something: The weather babble means:

For (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 500 per month, automated basic weather reports are sent to maritime customers via satellite or shore-to-ship databurst (within 12km of land) from the weather agency responsible for your region (for most of our purposes, either the CAS or UCAS weather service) @ 1200 UTC daily. An additional (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 300 per month gets you more detailed and updated reports sent at 0000 and 1200 UTC daily, with a final (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 300 getting you just as detailed forecasts sent at 6 and 18, as well. (More forecasts means you have more current weather data.) "

I see no reason why you wouldn't spend the 1100 nuyen per month that it costs for full-featured weather data.

Fuel costs:

Diesel prices can (and probably will) change. But at game start, 5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) per liter works. Your ship comes to you with a full tank for free. Please note that storing diesel in the cargo hold is a good idea at first glance, but there's no way to refuel the tanks from within the ship.

[budoka05]

Don't ships have an external and accessible fueling port? It is a pain to refill by hand since the seas are rolling, but it's possible.

BTW, I like the ship's load-out. Perhaps it could use some Drones, but I'll leave it to the riggers. The ships get my thumbs up!