Weapon modification impossibilities? Options

[TheMadderHatter]

Firstly, this is my first post in a forum of this type, so if I err in some way, I plead ignorance. One of my players suggested that he'd like to play an AI living in a smartgun; before the AI's-are-weak argument is brought up, I warned him of this, and he still wants to play it, simply for the coolness factor. He raised only one question, in Arsenal- the Flying Propulsion System requires 8 mod slots, but weapons have, by default, 6. Does a weapon with a flying propulsion system have to be overmodified?
If there's a better way to handle weapon mods, I'd love to hear it, incidentally.

[Marwynn]

Can't he just live in a Drone holding a smartgun?

[X-Kalibur]

It does say that by default, weapons have 6 slots for mods, but also that gamemasters may modify that, seeing as the entire section is optional. Flying in a pistol? Probably not. Something the size of a large SMG or AR/sport rifle, sure, I don't see why not...

[crash2029]

I can just imagine that meet.
The Scene: a human, an ork, an elf, and a floating Ares Alpha sitting across the table from a severe looking human in corp chic
Mr. J: What is that?
Elf: What?
Mr. J: The floating gun.
Elf: That's Hal.
Mr. J: Excuse me?
Elf: Hal. Our merc.
Mr. J: Your merc?
Elf: Yeah. Why?
Mr. J: I think I need to go now.
*Mr. J gets up and quickly exits. The rifle and the elf turn toward each other.*
Elf: I wonder what his problem was?
Hal: *ejects a round as a shrug*
Ork: So..., anybody hungry?
*The team looks around at each other shrugs and heads for Denny's. They stop for take-out at Weapons World for Hal.*

Wilkommen to Dumpshock!

[ShadowPavement]

I can just imagine that meet.
The Scene: a human, an ork, an elf, and a floating Ares Alpha sitting across the table from a severe looking human in corp chic
Mr. J: What is that?
Elf: What?
Mr. J: The floating gun.
Elf: That's Hal.
Mr. J: Excuse me?
Elf: Hal. Our merc.
Mr. J: Your merc?
Elf: Yeah. Why?
Mr. J: I think I need to go now.
*Mr. J gets up and quickly exits. The rifle and the elf turn toward each other.*
Elf: I wonder what his problem was?
Hal: *ejects a round as a shrug*
Ork: So..., anybody hungry?
*The team looks around at each other shrugs and heads for Denny's. They stop for take-out at Weapons World for Hal.*

Wilkommen to Dumpshock!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) That just made milk come out my nose. Bonus karma point for you my friend.

[Tachi]

I can just imagine that meet.
The Scene: a human, an ork, an elf, and a floating Ares Alpha sitting across the table from a severe looking human in corp chic
Mr. J: What is that?
Elf: What?
Mr. J: The floating gun.
Elf: That's Hal.
Mr. J: Excuse me?
Elf: Hal. Our merc.
Mr. J: Your merc?
Elf: Yeah. Why?
Mr. J: I think I need to go now.
*Mr. J gets up and quickly exits. The rifle and the elf turn toward each other.*
Elf: I wonder what his problem was?
Hal: *ejects a round as a shrug*
Ork: So..., anybody hungry?
*The team looks around at each other shrugs and heads for Denny's. They stop for take-out at Weapons World for Hal.*

Wilkommen to Dumpshock!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

+1 indeed...

[X-Kalibur]

I can just imagine that meet.
The Scene: a human, an ork, an elf, and a floating Ares Alpha sitting across the table from a severe looking human in corp chic
Mr. J: What is that?
Elf: What?
Mr. J: The floating gun.
Elf: That's Hal.
Mr. J: Excuse me?
Elf: Hal. Our merc.
Mr. J: Your merc?
Elf: Yeah. Why?
Mr. J: I think I need to go now.
*Mr. J gets up and quickly exits. The rifle and the elf turn toward each other.*
Elf: I wonder what his problem was?
Hal: *ejects a round as a shrug*
Ork: So..., anybody hungry?
*The team looks around at each other shrugs and heads for Denny's. They stop for take-out at Weapons World for Hal.*

Wilkommen to Dumpshock!

The Aristocrats!

[MusicMan]

I can just imagine that meet.
The Scene: a human, an ork, an elf, and a floating Ares Alpha sitting across the table from a severe looking human in corp chic
Mr. J: What is that?
Elf: What?
Mr. J: The floating gun.
Elf: That's Hal.
Mr. J: Excuse me?
Elf: Hal. Our merc.
Mr. J: Your merc?
Elf: Yeah. Why?
Mr. J: I think I need to go now.
*Mr. J gets up and quickly exits. The rifle and the elf turn toward each other.*
Elf: I wonder what his problem was?
Hal: *ejects a round as a shrug*
Ork: So..., anybody hungry?
*The team looks around at each other shrugs and heads for Denny's. They stop for take-out at Weapons World for Hal.*

Wilkommen to Dumpshock!

That's great...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I can just imagine that meet.
The Scene: a human, an ork, an elf, and a floating Ares Alpha sitting across the table from a severe looking human in corp chic
Mr. J: What is that?
Elf: What?
Mr. J: The floating gun.
Elf: That's Hal.
Mr. J: Excuse me?
Elf: Hal. Our merc.
Mr. J: Your merc?
Elf: Yeah. Why?
Mr. J: I think I need to go now.
*Mr. J gets up and quickly exits. The rifle and the elf turn toward each other.*
Elf: I wonder what his problem was?
Hal: *ejects a round as a shrug*
Ork: So..., anybody hungry?
*The team looks around at each other shrugs and heads for Denny's. They stop for take-out at Weapons World for Hal.*

Wilkommen to Dumpshock!

Awesome... I like it...

[StealthSigma]

Firstly, this is my first post in a forum of this type, so if I err in some way, I plead ignorance. One of my players suggested that he'd like to play an AI living in a smartgun; before the AI's-are-weak argument is brought up, I warned him of this, and he still wants to play it, simply for the coolness factor. He raised only one question, in Arsenal- the Flying Propulsion System requires 8 mod slots, but weapons have, by default, 6. Does a weapon with a flying propulsion system have to be overmodified?
If there's a better way to handle weapon mods, I'd love to hear it, incidentally.

IIRC, Arsenal has rules about overmodding beyond the 6 slot limitation. The only thing about it that I recall for certain is that you need tools one step higher than what you normally need (Kit need Shop, Shop need Facility, Facility has an increased interval(?)). So 8 mod slots is possible, it just requires stuff beyond what you normally do.

[overcannon]

IIRC, Arsenal has rules about overmodding beyond the 6 slot limitation. The only thing about it that I recall for certain is that you need tools one step higher than what you normally need (Kit need Shop, Shop need Facility, Facility has an increased interval(?)). So 8 mod slots is possible, it just requires stuff beyond what you normally do.

But it still does come down to GM discretion.

[Karoline]

It does say that by default, weapons have 6 slots for mods, but also that gamemasters may modify that, seeing as the entire section is optional. Flying in a pistol? Probably not. Something the size of a large SMG or AR/sport rifle, sure, I don't see why not...

Yeah, a pistol is smaller so it has less room to put in mods... but it is also lighter, so it doesn't need as much thrust to lift it.

I figure this is why a holdout and an assault cannon have the same number of slots. Sure, the holdout has alot less space, but each mod doesn't need to modify as much.

(Kit need Shop, Shop need Facility, Facility has an increased interval(?))

Yeah, you need a moon base.

Actually it specifies that a Facility doesn't need anything bigger as it is already the biggest. I totally forgot you could go over 6 slots without too much trouble... I'll have to rethink some of my weapons (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[StealthSigma]

Actually it specifies that a Facility doesn't need anything bigger as it is already the biggest. I totally forgot you could go over 6 slots without too much trouble... I'll have to rethink some of my weapons (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I remember there is something that happens if you try to overmod a facility quality modification onto a weapon of vehicle. I'm 99% certain it increases the interval or threshold for the the check. Basically, I see no reason to not allow it, I don't think it's a sidebar, which means it's a mainstream rule, so it's at the GM's discretion to not allow it.

[Karoline]

I remember there is something that happens if you try to overmod a facility quality modification onto a weapon of vehicle. I'm 99% certain it increases the interval or threshold for the the check. Basically, I see no reason to not allow it, I don't think it's a sidebar, which means it's a mainstream rule, so it's at the GM's discretion to not allow it.

Yeah, fairly certain your right about it increasing the threshold. In fact I think it increases the threshold even on stuff that usually uses a kit/shop... don't quite remember and don't have my books on hand at the moment.

Personally I think some things require too many slots or take slots when they shouldn't.

Barrel extension for example seems like it would increase the number of slots available if anything, instead of decreasing it.

Also, don't forget that getting the mobility mod also requires a pilot mod which for some reason takes up slots, and presumably in order for it to be good enough to support an AI it would at least need the 'weapon personality' mod, which once again I believe requires slots. So the weapon this AI inhabits would have to have at least 10 slots worth of mods on it.

Personally I think the funniest part of this is the several k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) a month that will be spent on maintaining the pistol because it is the AI's home node.

Edit:
Armorer: "So.. you want me to do 30k worth of repairs... on a 500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) pistol?"

[Traul]

Is a flying weapon usable as a vehicle, even for an AI? I thought it only had enough power to get back to its user if dropped.

[Karoline]

Is a flying weapon usable as a vehicle, even for an AI? I thought it only had enough power to get back to its user if dropped.

Mmmm, not sure. I thought it had enough to operate independently for at least a while. Likely not hours, but certainly through a mission.. if it 'rests' on someone's shoulder when not actively in a firefight or something.

Then again, it isn't required that an AI's home node be mobile either.

I'm sure a drone that carried a weapon would be way more effective than the weapon itself... but darn, it sure is an interesting concept, and should be given bonus points for that.

Also, given the huge amount of money that goes into maintaining the weapon, I'm sure the GM could rule that it has managed to attain an increased operation time (Maybe by adding in tiny little solar cells, super high quality power cells, or perhaps even some kind of link to the grid like most vehicles have)

Edit: From Arsenal:

Once an item’s slot maximum is reached, any further
modifi cation to that item requires the gamemaster’s approval.
Also, in order to perform the modifi cation, the mechanic must
use tools one step higher than usual (unless the tool is already
at facility level) and a multiplier of at least x2 must be applied
to both the cost and the threshold. Note that most of these
overmodifications reduce the object’s effectiveness in other
ways—for example, adding additional weapons and armor to
a vehicle beyond its slot limit may result in reduced Speed or
Handling. Once again, the gamemaster has the last word on
this. Note that the number of used slots usually has impact on
the general bulkiness of an object.

[MusicMan]

It's like "Weapon Personality" +5

[TheMadderHatter]

Also, given the huge amount of money that goes into maintaining the weapon, I'm sure the GM could rule that it has managed to attain an increased operation time (Maybe by adding in tiny little solar cells, super high quality power cells, or perhaps even some kind of link to the grid like most vehicles have)

This is along the lines of what I did; I gave him the list of minidrone-compatible mods, he picked Additional Fuel Tanks, and I decided it gave him the full six hours via extremely volatile high-capacity power cells. He wrote his backstory as a prototype, tactically-aware smartgun target designator program gone wrong (WOPR in miniature, and yes, this will be exploited in-game), so I thought that letting him move normally was a small enough concession and a logical enough concession in comparison to the rest of his problems... like the Compulsive quality for shooting.

[Karoline]

...like the Compulsive quality for shooting.

Isn't that like... a requirement to be a shadowrunner? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[the_real_elwood]

Does your player know that, by the rules, the flying modification for weapons has enough power for about 2 minutes of flight? I suppose as the GM you could houserule around it, but the way the rules are set up, playing an AI with its home node inside a flying smartgun doesn't give you a whole lot of mobility. Having a drone as the AI's home node makes much more sense.

[AndyZ]

The first thing that I see when I read this is "Ridiculous." That could be ok. I've seen ridiculous before.

First, talk to all the other players. They may have an issue with ridiculous. If everyone else at the table is willing to deal with it, by all means. If someone isn't willing, then it should probably be dropped, as it's going to decrease enjoyment and likely cause conflict.

Overmodification isn't nearly the only issue you'll have to deal with. You've also got reloading, propulsion battery, and the fact that guns aren't designed to be shot. One decent hit will probably destroy the gun and effectively kill the A.I.

The smartgun could certainly be the home node for the A.I., while he has access to other drones and such to actually get around. However, if you go ridiculous, go big, so here we go.

Once both you and all players accept ridiculous, you can feel reasonably safe throwing rules to the wind. The point, after all, is to have fun.

If he needs a way to get into the group, the Johnson might even introduce it and tell the party to bring the gun along, explaining that part of their run is to test out a new piece of equipment in the field.

My real question is reloading. A compulsive shooter is not going to conserve ammo. How does it get more bullets back in the gun?

[Stahlseele]

Needs set up, but then simply land on the clips standing upright.
Kinda like pooping, but in reverse.

[AndyZ]

Granted, but since it needs set up, then a gun's not going to be able to do it by itself.

[DamienKnight]

Kinda like pooping, but in reverse.

OMG, I just hurt myself laughing.

[Stahlseele]

OMG, I just hurt myself laughing.

*bows* thank you, thank you! i will be here . . ah damn it, probably for a pretty long time ^^
I consider a day where i have made someone laught to not have been wasted ^^