Ork overpopulation: Sixth World solutions. Options

[milk ducks]

If you're reading this, you're probably familiar with the posts suggesting (proving?) that ork reproductive rates given in the core books are unsustainable. Instead of simply ignoring what the book says, though, I'd like to assume that it's all 100% accurate, and generate a bit of discussion as to how Sixth World powers might work to limit Robustus populations. Real world solutions, like the one-child policy in China, for example, has, according to Chinese authorities, prevented more than 250 million births between 1979 and 2000. And in India, only people with 2 or fewer children are eligible to serve in positions within local governments. Would these methods be effective in dealing with ork overpopulations? What if the Sixth World put its own spin on them?

I'm imagining government/corps-sponsored incentives for voluntary sterilization; revocation of SINs for repeated "offenders"; assaults by pro-Humanis organizations involving physical or chemical castration; hard payouts for ork parents to give excess children up for adoption to other orks; etc.

Or all of the above?

What ideas can you guys think of to limit ork populations?

-milk.

[Heath Robinson]

Malthusian prospect.

[BlueMax]

OOC Runner's Companion says that for unknown reasons Ork reproductive rates are plummeting.

IC
"After long arduous work, we have achieved the start of our goals brothers. Future generations will have a cleaner planet. Let us not give up , let us press so that this beautiful future meets our children instead of our grandchildren and when that is done, we push to retire in a better, cleaner and safer America!
--The White Dove
"

That Dove guy is a Dreakhead

BlueMax

[MusicMan]

Don't orcs only live 50 years?

Also... what is the survivability rate or orc children?

I haven't read the posts, but if an orc gives birth to 5 kids but only 1 actually survives to maturity, then it works out just fine.

I guess I need to work the search-fu a little and get some more information on this... it sounds interesting.

[Warlordtheft]

My guess is that after the first litter-5 to 6 kids-she says get me some sterilization. That would be it. Even then the growth of the ork population would not be slowed. Also there might be a natural imbalance of male orks to female orks. Say 2 males for every female. Orks also have shorter life spans (due to poverty and violence maybe).

Also-ork kids might have a stronger prediliction for danger. As their bodies mature faster they can do more, but their mental maturity is still quite young. This could lead them into getting into fights with older kids (and hurt or killed that way).

[Chrysalis]

Sterilisation additives in the local water supply. Long term environmental poisons causing uterine scarring sprayed from chemical trucks at 5 in the morning. Forced sterilisation of any ork who comes in without insurance at local hospitals.

[Red-ROM]

Have you read "McHugh's Modest Proposal"?

[Naysayer]

Have you read "McHugh's Modest Proposal"?

Soylent Green is... Ork babies?! Ewww!

[Screaming Eagle]

Ethnic cleansing?
Free abortions and sterilizations?
Drugs in the water to make Orcs infertile?
A subtle poison in the Orc branded baby formula to sterilize most of the newborn Female Orcs? (this one is particulrly hidious, poor families will lean on the cheap formula and by the time the effects are detected the damage has been done to nearly 2 full generations - into the roladex it goes...)

I wish I was joking.
Assuming a 50/ 50 gender split - and nothing in the books states otherwise (and they have had some wacky detailed things stated out) , and assuming each Orc Female has ONE litter of 6 (the average if I recall) and relatively high (15% or so) infant mortality, each 2 orcs produses 5 young per generation. We have had aproxamitly 2 Orc generations. For each Orc their was at goblinization we now have 6.25 young Orcs.

These numbers are VERY conservative.
At 2 litters (not an unreasonable average) we are looking at 1 to 25 starting orcs to current young. This is gross. Assuming a middle ground you are looking at about 12 to 1

I'm running this angle as I find it unlikely the masses of the Orcs as presented in the material will have access to fertility clinics for controlled impregnation to keep it to one child per preggers. If you want to have this freely avaliable as a charity (Proudly supported by some Humains fronted organization) it could do what you want. As would drugs and government incentives etc etc etc...

[Jaid]

government incentives only work for SINners. the charitable organisations offering birth control might work, but i find it doubtful they'd make it into the poorest parts of the barrens, which is where a significant portion of the ork population will be (certainly not all, but quite a few). also, don't forget; not only do orks die sooner, they also reach sexual maturity earlier. an ork female could very well have had 2 litters by the time she's 14 years old...

[The Dragon Girl]

There are some countries (like Japan in SR) that might do things like sterilize at goblinization, without telling them. And its certainly possible for something like.. a tailored bacteria to be made that has a much higher chance of killing young orcs (or other 'undesirable' races) than a 'pure' human.
Industrial waste, no medical care, starvation, and violence can easily account for the rest.

[Ravor]

SIDS

Imagine how much damage a Mage could do by summoning a low Force spirit with orders of "Go forth and smother as many trog babies as you can!" Or perhaps a Decker could insert similair code into the interactive toys that are all the rage.

[pbangarth]

SIDS

Imagine how much damage a Mage could do by summoning a low Force spirit with orders of "Go forth and smother as many trog babies as you can!" Or perhaps a Decker could insert similair code into the interactive toys that are all the rage.

The code could eventually be traced (if anyone cared to), but the spirit thing is scary. What are the chances that there is at least one mage in Humanis?

[Paul]

I hope to read some of the materials discussed here, like Runner's Companion, before I give too definitive of an opinion here-but I hope they do tie something like this into the "meta plot", and i hope it doesn't suck.

[Jaid]

The code could eventually be traced (if anyone cared to), but the spirit thing is scary. What are the chances that there is at least one mage in Humanis?

while i'm sure there are mages in humanis, i'm also pretty sure that humanis hates mages only slightly less than they hate metahumans (though, as i said, this is hardly going to mean that it's impossible). the main problem i see is that if a mage does this on a regular basis, someone is going to track it back to them (because i give it a much better chance that the substantially larger portion of the population that are *not* part of humanis has a mage capable of tracking the spirit back to the summoner, telling half a dozen of his mage buddies, and sending 6 force 6 spirits as a welcoming committee to the magician who was thinking he's so clever).

[Marwynn]

Well the Spirit can also be traced. I'm sure that there'd be one Street Shaman out there who'd track it down. But magic is quite scary for combat characters, imagine what it'd be like for impoverished mundanes.

Escalation would be my answer. Promote the image of self-destructive behaviour in music and media that the Orks follow. Sneak in guns and drugs freely for the gangs. Target the small middle class and increase their debts and push them back below the poverty line; targetting middle-class ork students with drugs, or simply getting them into debt.

[TonkaTuff]

While most of the suggestions here are wonderfully in-line with the general dystopic theme of the game, I think the most likely answer would be that voluntary contraceptive technologies are probably incredibly cheap and readily available. Nobody really wants to see the destitute cranking out hordes of children that nobody can or will support, least of all the poor themselves (as there's no guaranteed support system anymore). So male and female contraceptive options are probably heavily-subsidized.

That way, those who support such things get a facade of humanitarianism and respectability while persuing their goals of reducing the undesirables - all without the risk of being exposed for engaging in supervillian-like acts of evil such as murdering babies, poisoning the water supply or releasing lab-bred plagues that couldn't possibly backfire.

[The Dragon Girl]

While most of the suggestions here are wonderfully in-line with the general dystopic theme of the game, I think the most likely answer would be that voluntary contraceptive technologies are probably incredibly cheap and readily available. Nobody really wants to see the destitute cranking out hordes of children that nobody can or will support, least of all the poor themselves (as there's no guaranteed support system anymore). So male and female contraceptive options are probably heavily-subsidized.

That way, those who support such things get a facade of humanitarianism and respectability while persuing their goals of reducing the undesirables - all without the risk of being exposed for engaging in supervillian-like acts of evil such as murdering babies, poisoning the water supply or releasing lab-bred plagues that couldn't possibly backfire.

but backfiring is half the point! So much plot potential (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Doc Byte]

What ideas can you guys think of to limit ork populations?

Feed the Ghule overpopulation with 'em. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

[Jaid]

While most of the suggestions here are wonderfully in-line with the general dystopic theme of the game, I think the most likely answer would be that voluntary contraceptive technologies are probably incredibly cheap and readily available. Nobody really wants to see the destitute cranking out hordes of children that nobody can or will support, least of all the poor themselves (as there's no guaranteed support system anymore). So male and female contraceptive options are probably heavily-subsidized.

yeah, but there are parts of the barrens that don't see police presence, let alone social worker presence. what do you do about them? remember, back in the day, *children* were your social security program. for anyone without a SIN, that is still basically true; your only hope of being supported in your old age is for your kids to take care of you.

[Blade]

Free MMORPG subscriptions for orks.

[Cardul]

I think the best idea is the whole: make their media violent, make guns readily available...let them take care of themselves...Make it even seem profitable for them...And this is why Horizon is so dangerous...

[Jaid]

I think the best idea is the whole: make their media violent, make guns readily available...let them take care of themselves...Make it even seem profitable for them...And this is why Horizon is so dangerous...

because we all know giving people guns and encouraging them to be violent when they're right on your doorstep couldn't possibly have any negative side effects...

[TonkaTuff]

yeah, but there are parts of the barrens that don't see police presence, let alone social worker presence. what do you do about them? remember, back in the day, *children* were your social security program. for anyone without a SIN, that is still basically true; your only hope of being supported in your old age is for your kids to take care of you.

For the most part, you don't do anything about them, unless you can get a positive media story out of it. Otherwise, you leave them at the mercy of the barrens and rely on contracted security services to keep them there. If they breed like devil rats or get eaten by devil rats - that's their problem.

But, really, I imagine there are pretty much no social workers anywhere in SR. There are probably private contractors (whether legitimate or shadow-run) that replicate some of the functions, but I imagine most of what we would be familiar with as social work has probably fallen by the wayside - replaced by pure law enforcement: fines, imprisonment, and confiscation. But nothing like a systemic social safety-net or anything. Those subsidized contraceptives and whatnot I mentioned wouldn't be just handed out (though some of the freelance clinics may do so) , they'd just be sold extremely cheaply (likely one of the few things that you can still pay cash for) and advertised towards the desired market segment.

[Chrysalis]

For the most part, you don't do anything about them, unless you can get a positive media story out of it. Otherwise, you leave them at the mercy of the barrens and rely on contracted security services to keep them there. If they breed like devil rats or get eaten by devil rats - that's their problem.

But, really, I imagine there are pretty much no social workers anywhere in SR. There are probably private contractors (whether legitimate or shadow-run) that replicate some of the functions, but I imagine most of what we would be familiar with as social work has probably fallen by the wayside - replaced by pure law enforcement: fines, imprisonment, and confiscation. But nothing like a systemic social safety-net or anything. Those subsidized contraceptives and whatnot I mentioned wouldn't be just handed out (though some of the freelance clinics may do so) , they'd just be sold extremely cheaply (likely one of the few things that you can still pay cash for) and advertised towards the desired market segment.

That's pretty much like most of inner city United States.