Question about the maximum dice pool modifier from martial arts advantages Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Switch to: Standard Linear+

[Ranger]

How do you determine the maximum dice pool modifier allowed due to martial arts advantages? According to Arsenal (p. 156):

A character gains the advantages of all martial arts styles she knows; should they overlap, these dice modifiers stack. The maximum number of dice that can be added to or subtracted from a character’s dice pool from martial art modifiers is equal to the rating of the relevant Combat skill.

Let's say you have a character who knows the following styles and advantages:

Aikido: +1 die for Full Dodge
Boxing: +2 on Defense Tests against unarmed attacks (took the advantage twice)
Capoeira: +1 die on melee dodge

He has Unarmed Combat rating 3 and Dodge rating 2.

He is attacked by a street sam who is using unarmed combat, and he is also using unarmed combat.

If the character defends with a Full Dodge and rolls Dodge + Dodge + Reaction, his bonus from advantages is +1 from Aikido, +2 from boxing, and +1 from Capoeira, for a total of +4. Since Dodge is the obvious combat skill being used, which has a rating of 2, his bonus from advantages is capped at +2.

If the character defends with a Full Dodge and rolls Unarmed Combat + Dodge + Reaction, his bonus from advantages is +1 from Aikido, +2 from boxing, and +1 from Capoeira, again for a total of +4. However, since he rolled both his melee combat skill and Dodge, which skill determines the cap? Is his cap 3 or 2?

[StealthSigma]

How do you determine the maximum dice pool modifier allowed due to martial arts advantages?

I realized that was DV, not DP.

In the first case that is Dodge/Dodge, the cap would be +2, since his dodge skill is at 2.

When using full defense it's Reaction + Dodge + 2nd Skill. There's three options in those, Dodge/Combat Skill/Gymnastics. Since the martial arts rules say relevant combat skill, and gymnastics is not a combat skill, I would say that you would use dodge for any of those as the skill that caps the bonus.

[Ranger]

Already been discussed here.

Thank you for your reply, but that thread is discussing *DV*. I'm asking about the dice pool modifiers.

[Ancient History]

When in doubt, you get the advantage of the higher skill.

[Ranger]

When in doubt, you get the advantage of the higher skill.

Thank you, Ancient History.

[Sponge]

How do you determine the maximum dice pool modifier allowed due to martial arts advantages? According to Arsenal (p. 156):



Let's say you have a character who knows the following styles and advantages:

Aikido: +1 die for Full Dodge
Boxing: +2 on Defense Tests against unarmed attacks (took the advantage twice)
Capoeira: +1 die on melee dodge

He has Unarmed Combat rating 3 and Dodge rating 2.

He is attacked by a street sam who is using unarmed combat, and he is also using unarmed combat.

If the character defends with a Full Dodge and rolls Dodge + Dodge + Reaction, his bonus from advantages is +1 from Aikido, +2 from boxing, and +1 from Capoeira, for a total of +4. Since Dodge is the obvious combat skill being used, which has a rating of 2, his bonus from advantages is capped at +2.

If the character defends with a Full Dodge and rolls Unarmed Combat + Dodge + Reaction, his bonus from advantages is +1 from Aikido, +2 from boxing, and +1 from Capoeira, again for a total of +4. However, since he rolled both his melee combat skill and Dodge, which skill determines the cap? Is his cap 3 or 2?

Full Dodge is not Unarmed + Reaction + Dodge -- that's a Full Block, so the Aikido bonus wouldn't apply in that case. (Note that Aikido also offers a separate +1 die to Full Parry, but not to Full Block.) The Capoeira bonus similarly applies only to dodges (Reaction + Dodge), whether it's a regular melee dodge or Full (melee) Dodge. Your maximum dice pool benefit would be higher going the Full Block route, but you only qualify for +2 out of the +4 dice pool bonuses in that case anyways so it's academic.

Personally I would rule that you would cap your dice pool bonus with the skill that defines the type of defense (Dodge for dodging, Weapon skill for Parrying, Unarmed for Blocking), as the full defense allows the defender to "add Dodge skill dice to their defense roll", which seems more of a dice pool modifier in itself.

[Ranger]

Full Dodge is not Unarmed + Reaction + Dodge -- that's a Full Block, so the Aikido bonus wouldn't apply in that case. (Note that Aikido also offers a separate +1 die to Full Parry, but not to Full Block.) The Capoeira bonus similarly applies only to dodges (Reaction + Dodge), whether it's a regular melee dodge or Full (melee) Dodge. Your maximum dice pool benefit would be higher going the Full Block route, but you only qualify for +2 out of the +4 dice pool bonuses in that case anyways so it's academic.

SR4A, page 160:

Full Dodge: Character on full defense may add their Dodge skill to their dice pool when defending against incoming attacks. So a character on full defense against a ranged attack rolls Dodge + Reaction, whereas a character on full defense against a melee attack could roll Dodge + Dodge + Reaction, or melee combat skill + Dodge + Reaction. Full dodge may be used against both ranged and melee attacks.

Underlining is mine.

A Fully Parry is as follows (SR4A, 160):

Full Parry: Characters who go on full parry roll (melee combat skill x 2) + Reaction against any and all melee attacks made against them. Full parry may not be used against ranged attacks.

There officially is no "Full Block" defense, so I assume that Full Parry includes unarmed defense.

[Sponge]

A Fully Parry is as follows (SR4A, 160):

Ah interesting, the text on p147 (Defending against Melee Attacks) was not as clear - thanks!

[Marwynn]

Yeah I was wondering what that "Full Block" they kept talking about was. Since mechanically the difference between a Full Block and a Full Parry is that one uses weapons while the other doesn't, should Aikido's bonus then apply to blocking? Isn't aikido mostly an unarmed form?

[Tachi]

All Akido techniques actually evolved from sword techniques...

[Karoline]

All Akido techniques actually evolved from sword techniques...

Don't you know that 'All' is one of the most dangerous words in the English language?

[Tachi]

Ok, good point... most then...

[Karoline]

Ok, good point... most then...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Still, just because Akido is based off of weapon maneuvers doesn't mean that it actually uses any weapons. (I've heard high ranked people tell me both that they are used alot and that they are barely even mentioned).

I mean boxing and karate and tie-kwon-do and a bunch of other stuff all 'evolved from' punching someone, but that doesn't mean that the styles have anything at all in common other than a punch is thrown (And generally hurts).

[Marwynn]

All Akido techniques actually evolved from sword techniques...

Okay. But is Akido taught with weapons still? It may have evolved from sword techniques and the forms may still allow sword use, but generally is it with a weapon or barehanded?

[Tachi]

It depends entirely on the school. Some start weapons training immediately along with the h-2-h. Some don't. Some only teach weapon techniques at higher levels of study. Some don't teach weapon techniques at all. In my opinion (and keep in mind that is all it is) any martial art that evolved from weapon techniques (at least partially) is being taught in an incomplete form if it does not include the weapon techniques from which it evolved. But, that seems to be the trend of things these days as weapons are no longer carried everywhere. A mistake in my opinion. I never go anywhere without, at least, a blade.