Have any of the designers even met someone with diabetes?, Because it would be cured so many times over with 2070's tech. Options

[DeadWire]

Something a bit immersion breaking in all of the books are the references to people having diabetes.
Given the tech level, it would be cured so many times over it isn't even funny!

Just off the top of my head, a couple of cures.


Type 1:
1. Immuno-suppressants (With all the bioware, they can and do have good ones), grow clonal beta cells, insert into pancreas. Cured.
2. Auto-injector linked to biomonitor; cured.
3. Kill bone marrow, pancreas. Grow new ones. Cured.
4. Bio-gland producing insulin-like chemical linked to mol/ml of glucose. Cured.
5. Nano-biomonitor and nano-cancerands full of insulin. Cured.

Type 2 is harder, but still simple.

Type 2:
1. Digestive alteration/expansion: eventual reduction in insulin resistance; cured.
2. Changes in diet. Cured.
3. If it gets particularly severe, some of the type 1 cures.


As a Type 1 diabetic with an interest in medicine, this stuff just bugs me.

[TheOOB]

((Complete BS Alert))

Actually in 2023 Sweedish doctor Olaf Gunderson made a discovery that diabetes was actually an awakened disease, and that the true cause of the disease was unknown before the awakened occured. It is notable because it is one of the few instances of magic continuing unimpeded through the fifth world into the sixths, and some believe that diabetic mages are better able to control mana in mana voids because of it.

((/Complete BS Alert))

Now anyways, I'm sure there is a cure for diabetes in the sixths world, but I promise you, the lower classes can't afford it. If it improves the quality of life for the lower classes, it doesn't belong in a cyberpunk dystopia.

[Karoline]

Your problem is that you assume that everyone can get these things. You may not have noticed, but this is a dystopian setting, not a 'feel good and give everyone the cure for world hunger' setting.

No one is going to give people with diabetes those cures out of the goodness of their hearts, and those cures are going to be more expensive than the regular cheap treatment that is around today (Cheap comparatively, and certainly cheaper by 2070).

So yeah, there -are- cures, just like there -are- cures for blindness (cybereyes) allergies (gene treatment) and just about everything else out there, but that doesn't mean everyone can afford the cure. So yeah, even though there is the tech to cure most anything, people will still have stuff because they can't afford it or don't have the right means to access it.

[CanadianWolverin...]

2. Auto-injector linked to biomonitor; cured.

My cousin uses a device much like this. I think she said it costs about hundred dollars for the auto-injector that was taped to her side. So, yes, I also find it incredulous that the sixth world would have any problems with diabetes, even if they were poor as dirt - if the slums/barrens can get other items that fall off the truck, even a few of these wouldn't be too hard to come by from a street doc, eh? Hell, auto injectors might be even standard in a med kit of sufficient rating. While perhaps insulin is inexpensive, maybe the dystopian setting makes its distribution a challenge for the poor majority but then again, street doc maybe? And they seem to manage to distribute the rest of the junk the corps sell, so... *shrug*

[Snow_Fox]

Or more likely it is a great reason to stay loyal to your corp. OK top levels of society will have a cure, no if's and's or but's. The poor/SINless are pretty much doomed. Afterall it's probable that even modern treatments might fade away.

Mid level? well that's a great insentive. "What a shame Mr. Green your son has that illness. Isn't it fortuneate that our corporate health plan covers the needed tyreatment."

[Dahrken]

IMHO most peoples go for the simpler, less expensive options similar to what we have today, but probably a bit improved (stuff like "smart patches" monitoring sugar level and delivering insulin transdermaly). Like the auto-injector those don't CURE the condition. They alleviate the symptoms and the user able to function normally, but the condition is still here and if for whatever reason he miss hisrefill (that he need to buy regularly) he can expect troubles.

The definitive, genetic or biotech solutions certainly exists, but are expensive and somewhat risky. For exemple your method 3, killing bone marrow and pancreas to replace them with wat-grow replacement is not what I would call a minor procedure, and many peoples will understandably be wary of it if they have an alternative allowing them to function normally or near-normally.

[Ancient History]

Do we even mention diabetes in SR? 'cause I'm blanking.

[Weaver95]

Do we even mention diabetes in SR? 'cause I'm blanking.

I honestly have no idea, and i've been re-reading a lot of source material to prep for my upcoming SR4 campaign. I got nothing.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Something a bit immersion breaking in all of the books are the references to people having diabetes.
Given the tech level, it would be cured so many times over it isn't even funny!

Just off the top of my head, a couple of cures.


Type 1:
1. Immuno-suppressants (With all the bioware, they can and do have good ones), grow clonal beta cells, insert into pancreas. Cured.
2. Auto-injector linked to biomonitor; cured.
3. Kill bone marrow, pancreas. Grow new ones. Cured.
4. Bio-gland producing insulin-like chemical linked to mol/ml of glucose. Cured.
5. Nano-biomonitor and nano-cancerands full of insulin. Cured.

Type 2 is harder, but still simple.

Type 2:
1. Digestive alteration/expansion: eventual reduction in insulin resistance; cured.
2. Changes in diet. Cured.
3. If it gets particularly severe, some of the type 1 cures.


As a Type 1 diabetic with an interest in medicine, this stuff just bugs me.

The majority of these are not CURES... they are treatment plans to alleviate the symptoms of said disease...
Type 1 (2,4, and 5, Treatments, not Cures...... 1 and 3 may or may not actually work for the vast majority, as Diabetes of this type is generally hereditary and genetic, newly grown clonal bodies would probably tend to exibit the disease as well)

Type 2 (All are Treeatments, they never reduce the disease, they may inhibit it or remove symptoms, but you must always use these options, lest the symptoms return)

Gene-Tweaking MIGHT work... assuming you could afford such treatment...

Keep the Faith

[Critias]

What on Earth brought this on? Was diabetes mentioned in some recent sourcebook or something, enough that someone just felt an urge to make an account at 3:30 in the morning and make their first post ever on Dumpshock a rant about it?

[Karoline]

What on Earth brought this on? Was diabetes mentioned in some recent sourcebook or something, enough that someone just felt an urge to make an account at 3:30 in the morning and make their first post ever on Dumpshock a rant about it?

I guess so?

I was kinda curious what the OP meant about all the books having reference to diabetes. I don't remember a single reference to it from any of the books that I've read, but it seems OP saw it so much that it completely made SR seem unbelievable to him. :shrug:

[the_real_elwood]

I would think that if you had the money, you'd be able to use gene tweaking to cure pretty much anything.

[Weaver95]

I would think that if you had the money, you'd be able to use gene tweaking to cure pretty much anything.

with the exception being magically awakened diseases of course.

[DuctShuiTengu]

Do we even mention diabetes in SR? 'cause I'm blanking.

• Insulin shots for diabetics mentioned as a use for auto-injectors; Augmentation p. 39
• Mentioned as a side-effect of certain gene treatments that had been rushed to market without proper testing; Augmentation p. 74
• Mentioned as one of the conditions which the ACPS might read from someone's ID, Ghost Cartels p. 140

Also searched: Core (4e and 4a), Runner's Companion, Arsenal, Street Magic (and Digital Grimoire), Unwired, Corporate Enclaves, Feral Cities, Runner's Havens, Emergence, On the Run, Loose Alliances, Contacts and Adventures.

So, a few passing references to it, but nothing big that I can find.

[Karoline]

Well, given that the first reference from Augmentation is one of the 'cures' that the OP suggested, it seems silly that would be something he is mad over. And the second reference is giving it to someone, after which they could use one of the 'cures' that were mentioned, so that once again seems very silly.

And as already stated by TJ, most of the 'cures' the OP mentioned don't actually cure it, they just alleviate the symptoms, so I could totally understand diabetes still showing up on someone's ID.

[Weaver95]

Hmm...I wonder if you could go around giving people diabeties on purpose? Then you could develop a cure to your own disease, sell it to city public health department and make a bundle!

um...sorry. planning my SR4 campaign and i'm trying to think like an evil, amoral corporation.

[Karoline]

I don't think diabetes is that easily transferred. I'm fairly sure it is genetic, so you have to be born with it or get a crummy geneware. And if everyone who uses Evilcorp brand geneware gets diabetes and they just happen to sell a fancy diabetes cure, it won't take long for people to figure things out.

I'm sure there are plenty of -other- diseases that could be done for much more discreetly though.

[Weaver95]

I don't think diabetes is that easily transferred. I'm fairly sure it is genetic, so you have to be born with it or get a crummy geneware. And if everyone who uses Evilcorp brand geneware gets diabetes and they just happen to sell a fancy diabetes cure, it won't take long for people to figure things out.

I'm sure there are plenty of -other- diseases that could be done for much more discreetly though.

actually, it wouldn't be TOO hard to disguise type II diabetes, esp if you tied the triggering agent to body weight. so you could go around making people fat and diabetic, then offer them diet plans and a cheap genemod cure for Type II diabetes. you'd make money on the junk food/infecting agent sale AND clean up on providing the cure. Hell, even in the real world we've got a problem with type II diabetics in the less affulent areas of the city.

[erik]

How about Evo has a small subsidiary named Liberty Medical.... spokesperson is a dwarf that looks a lot like Wilford Brimley.

[Weaver95]

How about Evo has a small subsidiary named Libery Medical.... spokesperson is a dwarf that looks a lot like Wilford Brimley.

ok, that's funny.

However - I do tend to steal ideas for shadowrun story arcs out of the headlines. just watching the finanical news these days gives me plenty of story seeds for corporate greed, corruption and general purpose skullduggery.

[The Dragon Girl]

..Considering how insulin is created, I imagine it would be a lot more expensive in the sixth world, for starters. ..I'm hypoglycemic (genetically inclined, fathers type one diabetic) and I never saw anything in the way its treated in SR to even give me pause. Like the others have said.. the things listed there -treat- it, they aren't cures.

Strange random rant is strange.

[Method]

Considering how insulin is created, I imagine it would be a lot more expensive in the sixth world, for starters.

More expensive? I'm not sure to what method you are referring, but its currently made with recombinant bacteria and (relatively speaking) its dirt cheep. Of course you also have long acting preparations, which are just slightly more involved, but in general this type of thing is going to be damn near ancient tech by 2070.

As to the OP, well he's right for the most part (barring the semantic argument of "treatment" vs "cure"). Any of those options would be highly effectively in managing DM. But I think you have to keep in mind that the books are written for a modern audience (i.e.- us) and the easiest way to convey the implications of this futuristic tech is to relate it to a disease we understand. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Critias]

I guess so?

I was kinda curious what the OP meant about all the books having reference to diabetes. I don't remember a single reference to it from any of the books that I've read, but it seems OP saw it so much that it completely made SR seem unbelievable to him. :shrug:

I guess the new Diabetes Grenades really set him off.

[Karoline]

I guess the new Diabetes Grenades really set him off.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[The Dragon Girl]

More expensive? I'm not sure to what method you are referring, but its currently made with recombinant bacteria and (relatively speaking) its dirt cheep. Of course you also have long acting preparations, which are just slightly more involved, but in general this type of thing is going to be damn near ancient tech by 2070.

As to the OP, well he's right for the most part (barring the semantic argument of "treatment" vs "cure"). Any of those options would be highly effectively in managing DM. But I think you have to keep in mind that the books are written for a modern audience (i.e.- us) and the easiest way to convey the implications of this futuristic tech is to relate it to a disease we understand. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Ah yes, apologies, was slightly brain wuggy when I wrote that, and was actually thinking about bovine insulin rather than the vat produced stuff, despite the fact that its been in use for ..well longer than I've been alive. Sometimes my brain doesn't provide the correct relevant facts when prodded (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)