[X] My Assistant

[Neraph]

It should be noted that the delta-grade implants only matter post-Infection. Pre-Infection implants should not be affected by the Infected Implant rules, as they were gained before the character had to play under those rules.

[Ravor]

Unless my memory is failing me, I seem to recall that pre-vamp implants were subject to the entire "rejection" process as well.

[Weaver95]

Aye, and it is also possible that the vamp in question might not have really understood what he was doing either, just that "fresh" blood tasted better than the stale crap from the banks and that every once in a while he got cravings for the good stuff.

I think, my memory is a little fuzzy on whether or not the soul sucking undead (Yes, yes I know that they aren't "really" undead.) are reborn with an understanding of how and why their feeding powers works.

no, they don't innately know the details of their powers and limitations. a lot of them suffer from psychosomatic symptoms if they see a holy symbol or get hit by garlic soaked silver bullets. If the only thing you have to go on regarding your condition is the Blade movies, then that's what you'd tend to believe.

Now, later on they might figure it out and stop acting like a sparkly vampire from Twilight....but until then they're going to be pretty messed up.

[Karoline]

Unless my memory is failing me, I seem to recall that pre-vamp implants were subject to the entire "rejection" process as well.

There is nothing explicitly stated either way about that in RC. It just says...

Infected with the Regeneration power may only accept deltaware implants.

I figure it means that if they have lower grade implants they'll still stay in, but the trouble of regeneration can only be circumvented by the much higher level of medical practice required when implanting deltaware systems.

Of course you could also easily interpreted it as anything that isn't deltaware grade is considered foreign and so 'healed' from the body.

[Sponge]

There is nothing explicitly stated either way about that in RC.

I seem to recall reading something recently that did explicitly state it, might have been in Running Wild (for which I don't have the PDF handy here to check at the moment).

[Ravor]

Also I'm pretty sure that is the way it has always been through the editions, suppose I could be wrong though...

[AK404]

To the OP, the answer would most probably be, "I would let a player role-play an infected character if they knew how to role-play an infected character."

[Sponge]

I seem to recall reading something recently that did explicitly state it, might have been in Running Wild (for which I don't have the PDF handy here to check at the moment).

Ok, found it (emphasis mine):

One side effect of this regeneration is that you'll never find a cybernetic vampire. The Infected's regenerative abilities don't allow the long hours of surgery required for implanting a cybernetic device. It also rejects any existing cyberware in the host's body, forcing it out in an extremely grotesque and painful fashion.

[Karoline]

Hmm, but that is distinctly different from the statement in RC that they can have bio/cyberware so long as it is delta grade. I suppose you can put them together and say it will reject any cyberware that isn't delta grade... it doesn't mention bioware though... odd.

[Joe Chummer]

Hmm, but that is distinctly different from the statement in RC that they can have bio/cyberware so long as it is delta grade. I suppose you can put them together and say it will reject any cyberware that isn't delta grade... it doesn't mention bioware though... odd.

Since Running Wild is a newer release, I'd think any rules presented in that conflict with previously established rules (i.e. RC) would trump the older rules.

From what I understand, Catalyst will be republishing the core rule books (possibly in full color, I hear?) as part of the 20th Anniversary bash. I would have to wonder if they would update RC's rules to mesh with those in Running Wild?

[Sponge]

Well that bit I quoted was from the fluff section, not the hard rules - so deltaware may still be fine by RAW, but the fluff illustrates the intent that preimplanted (non-delta-)cyberware does indeed get ejected from the host after infection.

[Joe Chummer]

Well that bit I quoted was from the fluff section, not the hard rules - so deltaware may still be fine by RAW, but the fluff illustrates the intent that preimplanted (non-delta-)cyberware does indeed get ejected from the host after infection.

Fluff or not, I would NOT want to be in the room when a new vampire expels all non-deltaware cyber from their body. Ick.

[Neraph]

That's what I get for not having the most current rulebook. Also, as we've demonstrated many times over, crunch > fluff. Fluff is flavoring for the crunch, but you generally don't eat the herbs for the meat.

Also, the part in Runner's Companion is an optional rule, so maybe an optional rule bypasses a rule suggested from a flavor-text area.

[Hagga]

What about geneware? Is that rewritten and the essence loss restored, too?

[Starmage21]

What about geneware? Is that rewritten and the essence loss restored, too?

Yeah, HMHVV completely overwrites all geneware.

[Apathy]

I'm sure that this has been answered somewhere else, but I don't remember. If you've got a street sam with 0.5 essence and he gets infected all his cyber (which wasn't delta grade) gets expunged. Is he now back to the base 6.0 essence, or is he left with his measly half point and doomed to live the remainder of his life on the edge of starvation and with no powers to speak of?

[Stahlseele]

Depends on the infection he gets.
If he simply loses 1 point as a GHOUL? he is dead, with most of his cyber still in there.
If he gets DRAINED TO DEATH by a VAMPIRE? All of it gets kicked out, and he rises 48 hours later as a new vampire with 0 or 1 essence and he MUST feed withint some minutes/hours or simply die and STAY DEAD this time.

[Weaver95]

I had *one* player opt to make a vampire player character for my game. much less than expected and with only 400 BP, she had to sacrifice a LOT of goodies to play an infected. So we'll see how this goes.

[Stahlseele]

i like my cyber/bio-toys too much to play something like that

[Apathy]

Depends on the infection he gets.
If he simply loses 1 point as a GHOUL? he is dead, with most of his cyber still in there.
If he gets DRAINED TO DEATH by a VAMPIRE? All of it gets kicked out, and he rises 48 hours later as a new vampire with 0 or 1 essence and he MUST feed withint some minutes/hours or simply die and STAY DEAD this time.

But when he does feed, is he subject to a maximum essence of (2 times normal essence) 1.0? or 12?

[Karoline]

But when he does feed, is he subject to a maximum essence of (2 times normal essence) 1.0? or 12?

I believe he would jump back up to 6 essence max. Just like a normal human has been drained of all their essence, and so is technically at 0 when they die and are reborn as vampires. I see no reason why the essence lost to cyberware before being turned would be any more permanent than the essence lost to essence drain before being turned.

[Stahlseele]

But when he does feed, is he subject to a maximum essence of (2 times normal essence) 1.0? or 12?

He
aint
human
anymore.
Human limits don't apply to the new vampire.
He is exactly like any other Vampire, statswise.
Only slightly different in background story ^^

[Apathy]

Here's a stupid question: If a vampire didn't know any better and tried to feed on a cyberzombie, would he just be unable to feed, or would his own essence get sucked out by the essence vacuum of the CZ?

[Stahlseele]

There are no stupid questions, but there sure are many curious idiots ^^
Essence does not work like that.
He simply can't feed on the zombie. Better wuestion would be how the vampire is affected by the zombies background count.

[Medicineman]

I'm sure that this has been answered somewhere else, but I don't remember. If you've got a street sam with 0.5 essence and he gets infected all his cyber (which wasn't delta grade) gets expunged. Is he now back to the base 6.0 essence, or is he left with his measly half point and doomed to live the remainder of his life on the edge of starvation and with no powers to speak of?

Essence loss can't be reversed (except by a very expesive Genetherapy,described in Bodytech,I think ? )
So the Sam is a 0,5 Essence Vampire without any 'ware
(and Stahlseele ist right.He ain't Human anymore,but that doesn't matter ,his essence is still gone

with a human Dance
Medicineman