[X] My Assistant

[Sengir]

We're not really talking about the infected character's starting essence, but about the infected character's max essence, right?

Hm, I considered both of those to have the same essence hole...so under the "holes remain" assumption, a formerly augmented character could awake with 0 essence, as "a starved predator that hunts for fresh Essence with mindless ferocity".
If starting essence is always at one but the max essence is influenced by essence holes, it gets downright silly (see your example).

So for me the possible options are:
1.) Both the starting and the maximum essence of the new Vapire are modified by the essence losses from his old life. But hey, you are immortal so maybe you will live to find enough delta implants to fill those holes and a clinic willing to install them.
2.) Essence is reset, along with the whole DNA, aura, metabolism and whatnot. The char starts at 1 Essence with a maximum of 6.


Oh, another question: What happens with preinstalled deltaware during the transformation? Sure, Vampires can accept deltaware because it is custom made for their body, but what about the implants which were made to fit their old body?

[Weaver95]

yeesh. this discussion has gone places I'd never have imagined...

[Screaming Eagle]

yeesh. this discussion has gone places I'd never have imagined...

Ya they'll do that...

[Hagga]

yeesh. this discussion has gone places I'd never have imagined...

Starting a topic on any forum is like GMing.

GMing is like herding cats. Wet, angry cats who are pumped full of LSD and methamphetamines.

[Ravor]

Oiy, when Neraph and I start agreeing tis surely a sign that the end is nigh. (Even if we agree for what I think are totally different reasons.)

Now that I'm slightly less cranky (Flirting with a pretty girl tends to do that even though it was cut short since she ended up in the hostiple.) I'd respond that beings we've been told repeatably that vampires don't really die when they ae turned and aren't undead and that we should consider them as people with magical AIDs as opposed to monsters then they don't get a new shiny aura and their max Essence stays the same.

Of course this means your ( Essence 0.01 ) Street Sam turned vamp is either a mindless monster with zero Essence or simply fails to be turned at all due to a rounding error, but I see the rules as being fairly solid on the matter.

[Tachi]

Now that I'm slightly less cranky (Flirting with a pretty girl tends to do that even though it was cut short since she ended up in the hostiple.)

OMFG, how did you flirt a girl into the hospital? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) I hope it's a good story so we can use it against you at a later date. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I apologize to the OP in advance if this derails the thread, but I simply must know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

*Warning, emoticon induced overload imminent...*

[Starmage21]

2.) Essence is reset, along with the whole DNA, aura, metabolism and whatnot. The char starts at 1 Essence with a maximum of 6.

This is the one I agree with. Their cyber gets pushed out, bioware gets cannibalized, and geneware gets rewritten. Theres no reason, except the screwing over of the player, to retain the idea that somehow someone who is drained to 0 essence and comes back with 1, but someone with less than 6 maximum essence because of cyber(that gets pushed out during the transformation anyway) has to be treated differently. If you still want the mindless bloodsucking monsters, ghouls still work.

[Ravor]

Why because she ran out into traffic to escape my bad poetry and even worse singing of course.


In all seriousness though she was already sick when I saw her today and her coworkers were able to covince her to go in, thank god.

[Tachi]

In all seriousness though she was already sick when I saw her today and her coworkers were able to covince her to go in, thank god.

Yeah, a likely story...

Why because she ran out into traffic to escape my bad poetry and even worse singing of course.

*Operating on what conspiracy theorists laughingly consider 'logic'*
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, therefore, it must be the truth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Jhaiisiin]

GMing is like herding cats. Wet, angry cats who are pumped full of LSD and methamphetamines.

Oh, that's quoted in my sig from now on. I hurt from laughing. Thank you for that.

To post something on topic, I'd honestly go with the re-writing of the victim's DNA such that it repairs things to full essence. The reason for this is that the virus is automatically making *massive* physiological changes to the victim to create the vampire, enough so that the resulting being requires it's own statblock and in-game scientific classification. For all practical purposes, that which you were no longer exists, thus you're starting as a nice shiny new vampire.

That said, the rules as written are obviously ambiguous or we wouldn't be having this discussion. I can see it going either way. Though honestly, I'd personally never subject a near-CZ sam to this treatment without the player giving the OK, especially if we keep essence holes.

[Ravor]

Naw, we're Dumpshockers, we can argue over the meaning of even the clearest written of rules.

Tachi I wish, at least than I'd have an idea of how bad it was, its probably nothing, but I hate not knowing...

[Mordinvan]

I'm just of the opinion about the regen issue that if you can undergo a cellular regeneration treatment and get your essence holes filled in, having a body that does that all the time, 24/7 is likely going to have a similar effect. As far as previously existing deltaware goes, the reason a vamp can accept delta ware is because its made with allergens his body doesn't want to touch to expel, so unless his doctor had the foresight required to include those allergens in the pre-vamp delta ware, it should get pushed out along with everything else.

[Ravor]

I have to disagree, if the implants were laced with allergens it would seem to me that the vamp's regen would completely cease. Tis my understanding that the surgery is done with allergen laced tools but not the implant itself.

Deltaware Cyber/Bio is just so compatable with the vamp that her own body can't tell the difference.


You do bring up and excellent arguement for resetting the vamp's max Essence though, I'll have to give the issue more thought from a fluff standpoint.

[Neraph]

...which is what we are talking about: Does "essence becomes 1" override previous essence loss or not? I can see common sense reasons for both sides, but the RAW are completely ambigious.

"essence becomes 1" is very different than "you have 5.5 points of essence lost in a vaccum".

EDIT: this was written before I read page 8 of comments. I really need to get Running Wild in order to understand where everyone else is coming from, because evidentally it has a lot of info about this.

[Stahlseele]

Tachi I wish, at least than I'd have an idea of how bad it was, its probably nothing, but I hate not knowing...

Go to the hospital and ask. Show that you care. Chicks dig that shit y0 O.o

[Ravor]

Thought about it, but we are still in that extremely arkward phase where neither one of us is quite sure where the comfortable bounderies lay and I don't want to come off as too strong either, when I said flirting that is what I meant. Besides, can't get a sitter for my daughters so tis a moot point.

If she's still in there tomorrow I'll have to do that.

[Sengir]

I'd respond that beings we've been told repeatably that vampires don't really die when they ae turned and aren't undead and that we should consider them as people with magical AIDs as opposed to monsters then they don't get a new shiny aura and their max Essence stays the same.

But the fluff still states that there are massive changes to the whole organism (complete DNA swap included), and the aura at least gets modified to show the new, infected, infected, nature.
On the other hand, fluff also says Vampires don't have own essence (and thus have to get it elsewhere), so one could argue that this also means they don't get any essenc back.

or simply fails to be turned at all due to a rounding error

Well, Sams are praying all the time that the Universe does not run on Pentiums...

[Ravor]

Sure, but bare in mind that everytime you get a cold your aura reflects that change, and the fluff also tells us that the vamp is just a person with magical AIDs, albeit magical AIDS that requires the newly minted monster to literally devour souls in order to stay alive.

[Weaver95]

Sure, but bare in mind that everytime you get a cold your aura reflects that change, and the fluff also tells us that the vamp is just a person with magical AIDs, albeit magical AIDS that requires the newly minted monster to literally devour souls in order to stay alive.

it's also somewhat harder to catch than AIDS/HIV. well...the vampire strain is anyways. The ghoul version is actually easier to catch than HIV and a lot less fun.

[Ravor]

Sure, but that is neighter here nor there, although if we are going to talk about how easily transmittable the various strains are the ghoul strain is almost as easy to catch as the common fragging cold and without some of the best medical care the Sixth World can provide you will transform into a monster.

[Sengir]

Sure, but bare in mind that everytime you get a cold your aura reflects that change, and the fluff also tells us that the vamp is just a person with magical AIDs, albeit magical AIDS that requires the newly minted monster to literally devour souls in order to stay alive.

...and completely rewrites the victim's DNA, probably along with the mitochondrial DNA (since Vampires have a _slightly_ different metabolism). In other words, an Infected is literally no longer himself.

[Tachi]

Thought about it, but we are still in that extremely arkward phase where neither one of us is quite sure where the comfortable bounderies lay and I don't want to come off as too strong either, when I said flirting that is what I meant. Besides, can't get a sitter for my daughters so tis a moot point.

If she's still in there tomorrow I'll have to do that.

Take flowers...

[Ravor]

Sengir sure, but my response would be that if the virus did all that to that point then the vamp really shouldn't be considered merely a person with magical AIDs and be moved into the monster side of the line. Also unless the virus has the capable for "Naming" then the DNA rewrite should cost Essence as opposed to restoring it.

Tachi moot point, she's fine and we're back to happily flirting with each other. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Neraph]

Since when did HMHVV completely rewrite the Infected's DNA? It was my understanding that it was simply a magical retro-virus, which only rewrites a section of the DNA. If it completely rewrote DNA, many things would change, such as: gender, height, weight, hair color, eye color, kind (dog, cat, horse, human...), metatype, metavariant, ethnicity, body shape, ect, ect..

And by the writing it appears that any additional Genetech added is rewritten, but previous Genetech should remain, as it has been successfully assimilated as part of the natural DNA prior to Infection.

[Hagga]

In many cases, bodyshape, eye colour, hair (amount), weight can change. Massive bodily changes, like, say, secreting acid or growing armour plates or having your hormonal secretions change to drive you utterly berserk once a month.