A:Admin\Sympathy_for_the_Devil\Sign_up.node, <new_game_sign_up> Options

[milk ducks]

Alright, awesome. Marwynn and Method get +10BP. I'll award cndBlank 10 as well if he can explain why the RC cover reminds him of his character. I know I've been inspired to write after seeing certain pictures, so I think it's as legitmate a source of inspiration as any other, but in order to earn those bonus points you'll have to explain what it is about that picture you connect with.

Also, I posted yesterday on that "Johnson Memorial Career Center" thread, and tossed "Sympathy for the Devil" into the mix of established games. I've marked it Closed, so we won't have any new registrations, but hopefully it'll draw some interest to the project, so people outside this circle can read what we're doing. Here's what I wrote:

[ CLOSED ] Sympathy for the Devil.

Some people here got it real good,
'cause the glass towers bring prosperity.
And other people starve in the street;
concrete knows no sympathy.

Big city; it's a wishing well.
Big city; it's a living hell.

System / Version: SR4, all official source books.
Build System: 300BP with additional limitations; see recruitment thread.
# of Players: 4-8
# of Players Signed Up So Far: 8

Game to start when chargen is complete.

-milk.

[Karoline]

EDIT:
Question, will you allow the breaking up of Skill Groups at Chargen? I'm looking at the Close Combat skill group here, I feel obligated that he should know Clubs and Unarmed at 1 (Arnis de Mano) but he has an affinity for Blades. Frees up 2 BP which I'll put into Artisan (Vocal) so he can sing better in the Adept version or Intimidation (Physical) for the Mundane version (who already has the Artisan (Vocal) speciality).

Did we ever get an answer to this?

[milk ducks]

Oh wow, sorry. I must have skipped over answering that, I apologize. Yeah, you can break skill groups by spending BP to increase the individual skills, then specialize. If you ever want to increase the group as a whole again, though, you'll have to level up the skills equal to one another first - and you'll lose any specializations at that point.

-milk.

[DigitalOYABUN]

My song...caution explicit lyrics

[ Spoiler ]

Crazy, I gotta work with what you gave me
Claimin i'm a criminal and you the one that made me
They got me trapped in this slavery
Now i'm lost in this holocaust headin for my grave G
I told sam he could fuck the war, and got a busted jaw for saying fuck the law
And if you wonder why i'm mad check the record
What's a nigga got to do to get respected
Sometimes i think i'm gettin tested
And if i don't say yes a nigga's quick to get arrested
That's the reason i stay tested
I keep a vest on my chest in case the cops are gettin restless
Walking around ready to light shit up
And since my life is fucked, some say i'm slightly nuts
Buck, Buck is the sound as i move
Other niggas pay attention when a fool bust
They make a nigga be a killa
I used to be a deala, but they wanted to see who's realla
Now them same motherfucker's want to murder me
And noone did the lord ever heard of me
I need loot so i'm doin what i do
And don't say shit until you walk in my shoes
There was no other destiny to choose
I had nothin left to loose
Singin nigga blues

Papa need brand new shoes,but what the fuck can a nigga do
My little boy gotta eat too
So why must i sock a fella
Just to live large like rockafella
And did you ever stop to think
I'm old enough to go to war, but i ain't old enough to drink
Cops want to hit me with the book, huh
And ya hooked on my i don't give a fuck look
Make your rules i'ma break em
No matter how much you make em
You show me bacon i'ma take em
So don't you ever tempt me
I'ma fool for my nigga and my pockets stay empty
To my brothas in the fario
You livin worst than the niggaz in the ghetto so
I give a fuck about your language or complexion
Ya got love from the niggaz in my section
Gettin tired of the pump police
Don't run from the chumps get the pump from me
It ain't free i be dammed if i played a trick
For a blonde haired, blue eyed caucasian bitch
Down with my homeboy rich, huh
Fuck a snitch and a groupie ass bitch
And a nigga wit a cellular phone
Leave his baby at home so we can go out and bone
And you wonder why we blazin niggaz
Cause you punks havin babies can't raise the niggaz
And they dammed if he fuck ups too
Drinkin forty's a brew, Singin Nigga Blues

And no I'm not generally a fan of rap, but it seems appropriate to the barrens

[SincereAgape]

So that's what I want you guys to do. Think of some lyrics that reflect who your character is. Connect them in some meaningful way. I think this will help you understand your characters more -it'll make them feel more alive and dynamic to you- and it'll also help me see the character through your eyes, which is important to me. Obviously, nobody has to do it if they don't want to. But there's 10BP in it for anyone that does; that's an extra attribute point, or a few skills and a specialization, or 50,000 NuYen, or whatever.

-milk.

What a wonderful idea. I am a huge fan of Cowboy Bebop. And to this date and will always be one of my favorite fictional forms of media. The hacker character will be inspired by "Edward" from the Cowboy Bebop series. A young girl who is completely new to the Shadows. She is a talented hacker, with an innate sense of how to conduct herself in the Shadows, and survive. However, the entire time she will be dealing with emotions of the story as if this was her first Shadowrun (Because it will be). Completely green. A total "Noobie." She is a orphan who learned hacking from one of the many visitors who stopped by her orphanage for charitable reasons in Seattle. [That is the general outline, thus far.]

I am not sure on Personality yet. She won't be an annoying kender, or as hyper as Edward. To assist with making this character more then a set of numbers on a piece of paper here are the lyrics from "Call Me. Call Me." by the Seatbelts. This was the song played at the end of Episode 24 of the anime, "Hard Luck Woman."


Call Me. Call Me.
By Yoko Kanno.

I close my eyes and I keep seeing things
Rainbow waterfalls
Sunny liquid dreams
Confusion creeps inside me raining doubt
Gotta get to you
But I don't know how
Call me call me
Let me know it's alright
Call me call me
Don't you think it's 'bout time
Please won't you call and
Ease my mind
Reasons for me to find you
Peace of mind
What can I do
To get me to you

I had your number quite some time ago
Back when we were young
But I had to grow
Ten thousand years I've searched it seems and now
Gotta get to you
Won't you tell me how
Call me call me
Let me know you are there
Call me call me
I wanna know you still care
Come on now won't you
Ease my mind
Reasons for me to find you
Peace of mind
What can I do
To get me to you
Come on now won't you
Ease my mind
Reasons for me to find you
Peace of mind
Reasons for livin my life
Ease my mind
Reasons for me to know you
Peace of mind
What can I do
To get me to you

[cndblank]

Rev

You know I've enjoyed trying to find one that fit.

Now I need one for when she is riding her bike and going all out.

Artist: Bleeding Through
Song: City of the condemned
Album: This Is Love, This Is Murderous

Spoiler for language

[ Spoiler ]

it's fucking freezing outside because i saw you tonight and almost died.
looks like i've seen too many winters in my mind.
your stare is cold.
you better turn and run away because you're the evil.
we will keep on hunting you.
killing.
so what more do you want from me?
we will carry the weight that you can't carry.
talk your shit about us.
we don't give a fuck anyway.
you'll be the one to cry.
you'll be the one to fade.
i'll knock you off your high horse.
tonight we fucking burn your dream.
like glass your heart will break.
now who's left to pick up the pieces of your new shattered existence?
i've heard this shit before.
i'll await the day to see you fade.
so what more do you want from me?
we will take on the weight you can't carry.
talk your shit about us.
we don't give a fuck anyway.
you'll be the one to cry.
you'll be the one to fade.
i'll knock you off your high horse.
tonight we fucking burn your dream.
talk your shit about us.
you're the true motherfucking fakes.
you are the true fucking fakes.
you are the true fucking fakes.
i'll burn your dream.
no apologies.
i'll burn your dream.
no apologies.
we'll burn your dream.
no apologies.
we'll burn your dream.
no regrets.

[cndblank]

I'm still hoping we can go to a karma build.

I roughed one out and it was so much easier to get a rounded character character.

[Karoline]

Yeah, that's because it is cheaper to get a skill to rank 4 in karma than in BP. 4+4+6+8=22 karma or 4*4 = 16 karma. Heck, even at five it is 32 vs 20 which is still in favor of karma (assuming 2:1 value) and even rank 6 is only slightly in favor of BP with 44 vs 24... wait, that is -still- in favor of karma. Same goes for stats. 2 is 10 v 10, 3 is 25 v 20, 4 is 45 v 30, 5 is 70 v 40, and 6 is 100 v 65.

So yeah, karmagen lets you make more well rounded characters because your working with nearly twice as many points where stats and skills are concerned. Oh, and don't forget that race becomes free in karmagen.

Specializations are cheaper in karmagen, as are spells. The -only- thing that seems to be any more expensive is bonding a focus. That and maybe pumping up a troll's bod/str to max, but then again you didn't have to spend any karma on the race in the first place, so it evens itself out rather nicely.

[cndblank]

The price is the price you would pay in game.

You get twice the points only because they charge over double in the BP system for any stat or skill under 6.



You end up with characters that is all minimum or maximum. All sixes and ones.
You have a very few stats and skills very high and a whole bunch of critical ones for the character at either 1 or zero.

Why is it just as expensive per point to be average then to be just short of human maximum?


I understand why they did it, but they should have left it as a quick character generation system.

Given that 1 BP = 2 karma.

I figure a top shadowrun at the peak of his career should have at least rating 3 stats.

20 BP or 40 karma to take a stat to 3. With karma it is 25 karma using SR4A.

It is ridiculous to charge 10PB / 20 karma for a skill group when you could get the first and second level for the same 20 karma.

What about paying double the karma to specialize. 2 karma to 2 BP?



I was working with 600 Karma, no free knowledge skills, and I payed for my race. I also purchased exactly the same number of knowledge skills as the BP character.

I had enough karma to really flesh out the character and more specializations which really help to define a character.

The fact that I was also able to start out with an average strength and agility and not have some many rating one skills was a nice bonus.

But that is just MHO (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Karoline]

I believe your supposed to start with 500 karma for the 'low power' game (Is what the book says) and not pay for your race. Do that it and would likely about even out but you'd still need to take out a few points.

I agree that 600 karma (or even only 500) would allow for more rounded characters, but it isn't alot different from just using 400 BP and just setting the same restrictions on us. I personally like the karmagen system alot, as it is much more supportive of having a well rounded character due to higher costs for higher skills/stats, but I'm just pointing out that karmagen and BP run on different power bands as far as what you can create with a 'low' or 'normal' level game.

Personally I'd love to do a 500 point karmagen. It'd be nice to not have all my non-prime stats sitting at two and be able to pick up a bigger verity of skills.

[cndblank]

So in the Karma system, when you don't pay for your race do you need to buy the stats up from 1?

Would an elf need to buy low light vision?

And am I correct that you do have to pay for your knowledge skills?


Thanks

[Karoline]

In the karma system you don't pay for your race, but you have to advance your stats from the new minimums. So a troll costs no karma to be a troll, but he has to start raising his str from 5, so it costs him 30 karma just to add his first point of strength.

To counter this slightly you are allowed to spend half your karma + 2*BP cost of race on stats. This lets you get a bunch of free stats if you want, or allows you to raise them up at a cost roughly equal to what it would have cost to take the race via BP system.

No, elf still gets low-light vision, troll still gets dermal bones and reach and whatever else.

Yes, you have to pay for your knowledge skills.

[cndblank]

BTW were you using the old 3 times desired Stat for your 500 karma character?

On my 600, I was using SR4A 5 times desired stat and I changed it to 3 times and gained back like 100 karma.

So we were both actually right on the money.

[Karoline]

No, using the 5 times stat. And 500 Karma. Where are you getting the 600 Karma from? Double BP? You aren't supposed to have double the karma as you have BP. The devs realized that some things would be cheaper and so decided to knock off a few points of karma, which is why the 'standard' karmagen is 750 instead of 800. That's why 'low powered' is 500 instead of 600. Unless they changed that in SR4A, but given how much everyone seems to bitch about the new karmagen system, I figured they'd left the points at the same numbers.

[cndblank]

Thanks for the explaination on using Karma.

I just doubled the BP

I can see that. I think 600 is too much and 500 is too little.

I've heard that 750 was too much till they changed the stat cost. Now they say it is just right with the 5 times stat cost.



If that is the case then there is a serious difference between the low BP and karma totals.


Now lets compare the karma total to double the BP s for regular and low powered.


For regular 750/800 is 93%

For low power 500/600 is 83% so there is a big difference in the total.

Due to the new stat cost, 500 is really a little low and I bet they increase it to be in line with the 750 of the regular.

560 would be 93 percent of 600.

To keep it round I think 550 would be about right at 91%

[Method]

No offense to either of you, but doesn't it defeat the whole point of playing a low powered game if you simply sidestep the chargen restrictions by using a more forgiving system?

Granted I haven't started the real number crunching on my character, but I'm fully expecting to have low DPs in just about everything but Pistols (since he is a pistol adept).

Just a thought.

EDIT: and by-the-by I helped playtest the Updated KarmaGen rules and I can tell you that there isn't a very good correlation between the two systems. If you sit down and make a bunch of 400 BP characters and then convert them to karma (which is what we did) there is a lot of variability in what you come up with.

[Marwynn]

Let me introduce you all to Shotgun Sam, Samson Bahaghari. You probably won't know his real name for quite some time, even his nickname. That's his "street nick", so unless your character's a former ganger as well you may not have heard of him. Yes, he's a rather odd Ork.

Shotgun Sam

[ Spoiler ]

Background

[ Spoiler ]

I hate to say it, but it's better than the Philippines.

Call me `Sam` if you want, don`t call me `son`. Samson Bahaghari. Yes, good for you, you can use a search engine: it means sun and rainbow. Aren`t I just?

Home? Oh I'm sure things have changed since the hapon retreated. But maybe not for the better. Family moved to Seattle, actually... Vancouver, years ago. We drifted here. Tatay died on the boat ride over, but not before he gambled away our refugee papers.

But we got through it. And for a few years we were good. Then I... became me. My inay never looked at me the same way, so I left. Made a name for myself on the streets.

Then she disappeared, leaving my two siblings all alone. Just went up and left they said, middle of the night. They called me right then and brought me right back in their lives. Those two don't know that mom had been calling me, begging me to lend her money but I needed it just then. The shadows feeds off blood and nuyen after all.

But I wasn't going to let my brother and sister, dalawa kong kapatid, starve. Drek.

I had the money too. You know, the bills weren't getting paid even with my mom working overtime. Beetles, hate the stuff. No choice, no choice but to move, and to move on. Found a decent place, bad neighbourhood, but the two should be alright. There's even a free school nearby, one of those corp-sponsored charities. First thing I taught them, though, was how to aim their matching pair of Defiance EX Shockers and Colt Manhunters.

Hey, bad neighbourhood. I gotta get them fitted for some armoured clothes.

They got food, real fresh food, clean water, free electricity, and beds. Even got them each their own commlinks, not that old too. They know to keep it hidden, carried only to contact one of us or to be used at home. Show it to someone and it's as good as gone... that's why I got them even cheaper ones the first time so they'd learn.

I don't know where my mom is. She won't be able to find us if she managed to make her way back to her place, track us down to that hellhole we lived in for a while, or to our new home. If she's even alive. Hell, I should be looking for her shouldn't I? I got some leads.

Yeah, we're moving on up! A nicer part of the Barrens, pfft. Trust me, it's an improvement. No one looks twice if they see teens with guns, and that's just fine with me.

The gang understands, we do this for our family and mine needed to get out of that gutter. New 'hood, new place... no gangs. Quit my job too, just when I was cultivating my own fanbase. Ahh, they love me, they really do! Hahahaha. Rizal's showing me how to get this on the matrix, spread myself a bit farther than a dinky old club.

Looking for something? That's right, no tats, no ink or piercings. Not a fan, not a ganger... anymore. But there are others here that know me without needing tags. My old crew. Local kids, all, or what's left of them. All looking to get the hell out of there. To make that score that gets them noticed. Aren't we all?

I'm getting my bro and sis out of here. Don't get in my way.

Appearance

[ Spoiler ]

Light brown skin, dark hair in a messy, short cut. Well groomed despite the sometimes rough clothing. Dark brown eyes on a youthful face. Tall compared to humans and average to other orks. Not quite as bulky either, underneath that armoured jacket. A set of goggles rest on his forehead or hang on his neck, and odd weapons are arrayed all over his body.

Character Sheet

[ Spoiler ]

Race: Ork
Special: Latent Awakening
Name: Samson Bahaghari
Alias: Shotgun Sam

Body: 4
Agility: 5
Reaction: 3
Strength: 3
Charisma: 4
Intuition: 4
Logic: 2
Willpower: 3
Edge: 1

Initiative: 7
IP: 1

Qualities:
Ambidextrous
Martial Arts II (Arnis De Mano)
High Pain Tolerance I
Latent Awakening

SINner (Criminal)
Prejudiced ("Hapon", Japanese)
Big Regret (Worked for a japanacorp's babysitting program, entertainer)
Lost Loved One (Mother)
Dependent (Medium - Younger brother and sister)

Martial Arts
Arnis De Mano II
+1 DV Blades, Damaging disarm
Maneuvers: Two Weapon Fighting, Iaijutsu, Disarm, Riposte

Skills
Athletics Group 1
Influence Group 3
Firearms Group 3
Close Combat Group 1 (Broken)

Blades (Martial Arts) 3 (+2)
Clubs 1 (Martial Arts) 1 (+2)
Unarmed Combat 1

Intimidation (Physical) 1 (+2)
Infiltration (Urban) 3 (+2)

Dodge 2
Perception 2

Artisan (Vocal/Guitar) 1 (+2)

Knowledge Skills
Languages:
English (N)
Tagalog (Speak) 1 (+2)
Or'zet (Speak) 1 (+2)

Seattle Gangs 2
Charity Shelters 2
Seattle ('Hood) 2 (+2)
Lonestar Procedure (Street) 2 (+2)
Philippine History (Japanese Occupation) 1 (+2)
Romance Trids (Dramas) 1 (+2)
Music Theory (Vocal/Guitar) 1 (+2)
Agriculture (Garden Farms) 1 (+2)

Contacts

[ Spoiler ]

"Tito Boy", Human, Fixer (2/2)
Alberto Sison, known jokingly as "Tito Boy" amongst his filipino contacts, gave Samson his first real break. That is, in the shadows. Truthfully, Samson was meant to be a disposable asset but he performed above expectations. Tito Boy has his hands in everything, being as close as the fractured filipino community in Seattle can get to a low level mafia boss. Sam feels he has "utang na loob" a personal debt to pay and is quite loyal to him. Alberto Sison has contacts with japanese corps that he wisely keeps secret from Sam.

Colette McKenna, Elf, Street Mage (1/1)
A mystic adept in the downward cycle of her life, Colette has been through the shadows and worse. She makes a minor living as a talislegger and offers her services for magical healing. It came as a complete surprise to Samson that she too knew Arnis de Mano, a lot more of it in fact that he himself knew. He stops by occasionally for practice sparring and sometimes has a talisman or telesma on hand. No questions.

Jane "Pip" Browne, Troll, "Community Centre Leader" / Gang Member (1/1)
Known for her calm demeanour and sense of humour, Jane is an anomaly in the Barrens. Head of Sam's old neighbourhood community centre she organizes events and attracts corporate investment to the people of the area. Investments that at least benefit the people as much as the corp. Sam believes her to be a puppet for someone else, perhaps unwittingly, and worked to get her into the same gang as he. She doesn't display the affiliation but she relies on its members, and Sam, for support at times.

Rizal Bahaghari, Human, Younger Brother (0/0)
Named after a filipino national hero, Rizal is constantly under his big brother (kuya) Samson's shadow. He tells his twin sister Judith that it doesn't bother him, and it doesn't. She doesn't believe him. A fair shot with the Colt Manhunter and Samson's Remington 950, Rizal seems to be the brains of the family. He has a much-gossiped-about crush on a Ms. Anna Grace, living in the same building as they and attending the same church. Has a pet mini-drone salvaged from various parts, by the name of Puffles (due to the puffs of smoke it emits).

Judith Bahaghari, Human, Younger Sister (0/0)
A tomboy and a heartbreaker, Judith has Samson's rebellious flare and her grandmother's charms for whom she's named after. A much better shot than Rizal, her interests lie in interacting with other people. Funny, bright, and inquisitive, she has more often than not been the cause of many situations the two often find themselves in. Samson has had to scare off more than a few young admirers. She also has Samson's musical talent, both inherited from their grandparents.

Gear

[ Spoiler ]

Weapons
Knife
Survival Knife
2 Bayonets (Attached to Remington 990, Ingram)
6 Rattan Sticks (4 for the Kids)

2 Ares Gunblades 2600
Sword: Personalized Grip, Underbarrel Weapon
Fichetti Security 600: 15c, Laser Sight, Gas Vent 1, Melee Hardening
Ammo: 10 Clips Stick-n-Shock

Enfield AS-7 2250
24d, Folding Stock (Manual), Personalized Grip, Bayonet Mount, Melee Hardening, Gas Vent 3, Sound Suppressor Accessory
Ammo: 15 Drums Regular, 5 Drums Flechette (only 16 spare drums, 24 in each)

Ingram Laser V 1870
Ingram Smartgun X: Laser Sight (Internal), Personalized Grip, Thermal Suppressor, Extended Clip (40c) , Bayonet Mount, Melee Hardening
Ammo: 10 Clips Regular, 5 Clips Gel, 2 Clips Stick-n-Shock

Remington 950 1225
Laser Sighting, Vision Magnification for Imaging Scope, Firing Selection Change SA, Shock Pad
Ammo: 50 Rounds Regular

Colt Manhunter: 500
Personalized Grip, Quick Draw Holster (2 Colt Manhutersfor the Kids, Personalized with Holsters)

Armour and Clothing
Armored Jacket (Noncon 3)
Armored Vest (Noncon 3) (2 Armoured Vests for Kids)
Camouflage Suit (Urban Pattern) (Noncon 3)
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit (Noncon 3)
Leather Jacket
Chic Suit
Assorted Clothing 500

Commlinks and Identification

[ Spoiler ]

Meta Link w/ Vector Xim (loaded with Fake SIN 3) 164 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

Fake SIN (Rating 3): Carlos Domingo (Security Advisor)
Fake License (Rating 3): Carlos Domingo (Security License)
Fake License (Rating 3): Carlos Domingo (Concealed Weapons)

SIN (Criminal): Samson Bahaghari (Arrested multiple times for minor theft and assault, not loaded)
Fake License (Rating 3): Samson Bahaghari (Weapons)

Novatech Airwave w/ Iris Orb
- Carried on "jobs", linking electronics together. Wireless off or Hidden Mode.

Electronics

[ Spoiler ]

Trodes, Subvocal Mic
Goggles Rating 5: Vision Enhancement 3, Low Light, Vision Magnification, Image Link, Flare Compensation,
Earbuds Rating 3: Audio Enhancements 3, Spatial Recognizer
Binoculars (Optical)
Micro-Camera Sensor (Disguised): Empathy Sensor Rating 3

Lifestyle

[ Spoiler ]

Low Lifestyle: 2000 / month, Paid 2 months
Two young teenagers, Rizal and Judith Bahaghari

(Upon approval of our GM.)

[cndblank]

Rev is a dark haired elven former go ganger.
Hit the streets at age 14. She still vaguely remembers a middle class life before her father's engineer firm was put out of business by a corp.
See the Runners Companion cover for her picture.

She is very beautiful but hides it most of the time under goggles, grime, and a little axle grease. Cleans up real nice.
Most of her ware is second hand but well maintained. She does have a good street doc as a contact.
The arm can display any of several tattoo images. The hand on her synthetic cyber arm was damaged and doesn't have the skin layer.
She wears a glove most of the time. Favors a long coat and leathers when not working.

She is face and muscle with some speed enhancements and a synthetic cyberarm that is fast as lighting.
She is good with a blade or an automatic.
Knows at least a little about the Seattle underworld and gang scene. Also knows a lot about staying under the radar.
She is still recovering from a serious crash that left her a paraplegic for two years.
Able to fit in almost any place and able to get in to most places if she turns up the charm.

Loves her bike. Loves making her bike go fast.
She has a serious dislike for corp execs but will take their cred and do their dirty work.

[cndblank]

No offense to either of you, but it doesn't it defeat the whole point of playing a low powered game if you simply sidestep the chargen restrictions by using a more forgiving system?

Granted I haven't started the real number crunching on my character, but I'm fully expecting to have low DPs in just about everything but Pistols (since he is a pistol adept).

Just a thought.

EDIT: and by-the-by I helped playtest the Updated KarmaGen rules and I can tell you that there isn't a very good correlation between the two systems. If you sit down and make a bunch of 400 BP characters and then convert them to karma (which is what we did) there is a lot of variability in what you come up with.

To each his own, I'm just passing the time while we wait for the game to start.


First, I really like the concept of starting out at a low power level. Getting to be a professional shadowrunner is half the fun.

Second either way we are still playing characters with 75% of the Karma or BP (300 BP / 400 BP) of a regular character. For Karmagen it is more like 66% (500 K/750 K) so we should be cut some slack.

Third with a PBEM, it will take a long time to advance any way so why not get well rounded characters now.

Fourth what does some extra two or three rating skills matter? I would like to be able to afford some extra contacts, ground mechanic, first aid, or guitar.

Fifth if it was to happen it would be optional.


And I agree before the increase of the Stat cost to five times came down, 750 was over powered. Now it seems about right.

But I think 500 was about where they wanted to be.
Now that the stat cost has gone up it seems a little low.
Taking 75 percent of 750 karma would be 560.

[Method]

You can't really mix and match different character generation systems, because like I said they are not always equivalent. Its really an all or nothing thing. Besides, why would anyone choose to create a disadvantaged character if there is an "option" to make him more powerful?

And, to be specific, I am not opposed to karma gen, per se. I just think that if the group consensus is to go with karma gen (and milk ducks agrees), then we all need to go karma gen for balance.

But I would like to avoid power creep before our "low powered" game even starts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[milk ducks]

I'd like to take this opportunity, before I go to bed, to remind everyone that I have not approved karmagen, or any other chargen system except for 300bp point buy. I mentioned as much on the first page of this thread, and noted that if the consensus among the players was that the finished characters were under-developed, we'd work something out. As of right now, I've only approved like 2 out of 8 characters, and if anyone I've approved used karmagen instead of 300bp, I need you to head back to the drawing board.

Also, I have intentionally not addressed the fact that there are so many potentially awakened characters; I haven't asked anyone to change their concepts, and I haven't offered to give anyone bonuses for playing mundanes. I was hoping that lowering availability access and bp totals would force players to make characters that weren't chromed out super-machines; I guess that plan worked. What I didn't expect was that so many people would become physical adepts in order to keep their power levels up while circumventing my chargen limitations. I can't say I blame anyone, really. Which is why I'm not going to do anything about it.

Just please remember, the chargen limitations were set in place so players could make the most out of their characters; the idea was never for people to try and squeeze as much potential as possible in a limited space. Again, I'm not upset or anything. I want everyone to be happy with their characters, and I'm still really excited to see what we all come up with.

-milk.

[Marwynn]

Oh milk, how do you feel about that shotgun by the way? And the Gunblades? (under avail 6 but still)

I can drop Latent Awakening to take Restricted Gear for it. I did want to keep him mundane, seems to be his style. It's either Restricted Gear or First Impression. He'd kick more butt as an Adept but I wanna explore what a mundane would do as he moves on up in the shadow world. He's avoided it mostly because he's been poor but now that there seems to be a regular 'running team he could be a part of.

[Method]

I think the Magic limit of 3 curbs adepts pretty effectively. Just gaining an extra initiative pass (Improved Reflexes 1) costs half your power points.

And to be honest, my pistol adept has been rattling around in my head for months- he is in no way a response to the char gen restrictions of this game- tho the game has given him some "form" if you will.

I will post my character sheet for review shortly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/read.gif)

[milk ducks]

Oh milk, how do you feel about that shotgun by the way? And the Gunblades? (under avail 6 but still)

Yeah, sorry about that Marwynn. I had taken some time to look up some information on the subject, and got distracted. As per the RAW, and forgive me because I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, I can't see any reason why you can't silence a shotgun. The only restrictions I can find are in reference to the firing mode, and not on weapon class (and it specifically says revolvers can't be silenced). So I can't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to silence the shotty. As for the gunblade? You mean like a bayonet affixed to the shotty, right? I think the RAW says they can only be placed on rifles or something, but bayonets can be mounted on shotguns, there's no question about that; so I see no problem with that either.

-milk.

[Marwynn]

Oh no, no. The two "Ares Gunblades" on the char sheet up there.

I mounted a Fichetti Security 600 "under" a sword. Think of a gun with a longer grip and the blade sticking up. The pistol's barrel is the hilt itself.

2 Ares Gunblades 2600
Sword: Personalized Grip, Underbarrel Weapon
Fichetti Security 600: 15c, Laser Sight, Gas Vent 1, Melee Hardening
Ammo: 10 Clips Stick-n-Shock

It's legal, just Availability 6 put together. I already had the swords from before and I figured, why not? He has Firearms 3 and it's tactically flexible. I even considered taking Firefight's +1 when shooting in Melee bonus instead of damaging disarm, but I can live with the penalty.

I just get a kick of shooting someone with a sword.


Thanks for the shotty, I promise to take good care of it!