[X] My Assistant

[Whipstitch]

If you Min-Maxed to obviously with some of the GMs I've had you'd be dead way before the guy who had to struggle to get his pool over 10. trust me

Background aside, the nuts and bolts of character generation is metagaming at its heart. You make assumptions about what the game world will expect from you to survive and then you try to reconcile those expectations with the kind of character you would enjoy running. If the GM doesn't want to run a game for a character that results from that process, then they should tell the players what they're not comfortable with and ask them to change the sheet accordingly, don't nuke 'em from orbit after they've settled into the game. It slows things down and just forces people to play the guessing metagame about how far is too far when generating their next character. As the saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

tldr version: Your GMs suck.

[Pendaric]

Wouldn't that simply negate the Platelet factories? You spend money and lose essence for nothing. A couple of vampire hookers will get you the same effect, and at least you'll have a fun memory.

Nope, just stops the blood cloting in unpleasant ways which will happen without them. It expensive but when not getting your meds in the midddle of the jungle means life and death, I d be willing to pay.
Damage compensation and platlett factory is a nice combo when your not going to die from a lack of blood thiners.

SA grenade lauchers in cirtain situations are funny when you have them but not when the oppersition does.

Looking cool is often more fun that being non discript but often more dangerous. If you going to die, die with style.

Defensive architeture and sound tactics make low level oppersition high level opposition.

Ware should be about style as well as utility. Even if your style is non descript.

A uber opponent will never take a team, for two reasons, they can not do six things at once. Fire power is squared.

A clever opponent capable of facing an entire run team would take out each individual out seperately, so play up the brains not the firepower. Its more realistic and promotes longer term play than player shoot them in the face stratergy every time. It will end there but getting there is more picturesque.

[Drraagh]

A uber opponent will never take a team, for two reasons, they can not do six things at once. Fire power is squared.

A clever opponent capable of facing an entire run team would take out each individual out seperately, so play up the brains not the firepower. Its more realistic and promotes longer term play than player shoot them in the face stratergy every time. It will end there but getting there is more picturesque.

I will agree with the second part, which is what most clever opponents will do, but I would be willing to say that the uber opponent would still be able to take out the team, so long as they are set up properly. For example, throw a team against a fullborg like Robocop or a huge drone like ED-209 or Metal Gear and they were only prepared for metahuman resistance, someone able to take a hit and still dish out punishment leaves the team having to think of either beating feet or having to find some unique way to deal with the enemy the GM did not think of. I mean, if you don't have any heavy weapons and the like, it's not like you can stand toe to toe with this thing.

Comics do that as well some times, look at the enemies who can take out all of a superhero group until the good guys find their weak point and can suddenly turn the tables on them. It can sometimes make for good enetertainment, and from a player side, I sometimes like being faced with a failure like that because it makes me think of how to deal with their power and turn it against them. From a GM side, it makes it challenging to the PCs in more ways than just a few combat rolls or stealth rolls, because it turns it into more of a cerebral challenge with people thinking about tactics and the like.

Other RPGs I've played in is like D&D, you can do that with things like prophecies and riddles and the like, but in the end, it depends on how much your players are for rollplaying versus roleplaying. That was an argument I heard about Oblivion and the development of Fallout 3; Don't make things like lockpicking or interacting with people based on /player/ abilities, make them based on /character/ abilities.

Sorry, derailed the thread a bit so I'll toss out some of my ideas to help people out.


Information is your most valuable commodity. Learn about the building layout, the names of the people who work there and when they do, the response time of security, the different security measures, even if any of the people havek ids and their names, since you never know when any of this will come in handy, making small talk with people like you work there for example.

Always plan at least four escape routes out of every building you go into and make sure you have means of escape from them. Usually turns into the front door, the back door, a window and the roof (or something similar). Also, don't forget about the possibility of explosives to create your own escape routes if cut off. After all, security is thinking of ways to keep you in, so you should be thinking of ways out.

People overlook the service personnel, so any time you need to get information of a place, go by dressed up as a courier or pizza delivery, but make sure it fits the area. If you're delivering flowers to a secret installation, it probably won't fly. But if you're dressed up as a lab technican carrying some chemical boxes saying you're delivering them for 'Doctor Jones, who works on the third floor in Biochemistry', you'll likely be allowed to go through, great for a fact finding mission.

[Lok1 :)]

- Don't expect to go on head to head with a Knigh Errent vechial with a armour of 36 and expect to have a happy endeding.
- Always rember you get a point of edge for takeing a critical glitch like a man,
- Shoot the messenger.
- Lightning bolt and aircraft don't mix
- If you have a choice of faceing the strang creature from the sweres or just running into the blast holl that you made into a basment. Chose the second option (I'll spend the rest of my life wondering what the fuck made that ROAR! But at least I'll HAVE a "rest of my life".

[Harboe]

+ Cardio!

Ehm... not to sound stupid, but what is Cardio?

[DWC]

Ehm... not to sound stupid, but what is Cardio?

Cardiovascular exercise. Running, biking, swimming, or anything else focused on improving the health of your heart and the body's efficiency in oxygen use.

[Neraph]

It's a way to imply the Athletics skill group.

[NeoSilver]

If you need to be subtle and need a distraction, pull the fire alarm or hold a lighter to the sprinkler head. All the distracion of explosives, with out being as obvious.

Don't burn all your karma on a single action, no matter how much you need to make sure.

You can miss the jump. You probably will. Just make a grab roll on the way down.

When in doubt, when it all seems darkest, take refuge in audacity: Kick the antagonist's door in and deal with him, face-to-face like.

Good antagonists are reasonable. Great ones just act it.

Dreaming you kill someone happens. It's only a problem when you wake up next to the corpse with the murder weapon in hand.

[Sixgun_Sage]

In the right light a tennisball with a hoop earring looks alot like a hand grenade and makes bluffing the security team trying to stop your extraction act alot more friendly. If that doesn't work, use the real thing, no one trusts their armor that much.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Don't forget your Detect RFID spell to go with that. If you can't see it, you can't cast a spell on it.

Ahhhh.. that is where the Indirect option benefits you greatly... no longer need to see the Tag...

Keep the Faith

[cndblank]

A wicked idea.

Still it has been established that... for a Mana Barrier,
A guy on a motor cycle will get nailed and goes splat.
A guy in a closed car will not.

So the guy in the car was untouched by the mana barrier.

For a physical Barrier the bike would hit first (which might be bad for the driver but the Physical Barrier is likely gone.

So lets say we have a limited physical barrier (living material only)

A guy on a motor cycle gets nailed by the barrier and goes splat.

A guy in a closed car would go right on through if the same laws applied to both barriers.



And since I doubt any GM is going to let you cast a Physical Barrier (living Material only) and splat the T-bird crew or commit mass murder on the monorail, I think it would be safe to say it does.




So does he have to hanging out to count?

So would a guy wearing a cup be safe? Nothing is exposed.

What if he tucked them up in his body?

What about someone in a chem sealed or full security armor?

Also you get armor against Physical Barriers so why wouldn't his armor apply?



At best I would let say going through the barrier racked them, but they made it through.

Our group was demented enough to use Limited Physical Barrier: Brain. And yes, that one's for car chases, though it also works in a lot of other situations. Also, Limited Physical Barrier: Testicles. Sounds silly and juvenile, until you realize that almost all of our party is female. Our party runs through the barrier just fine but our enemies get dropped out of the fight very quickly, and there's almost no way to actually destroy either of those barriers with mundane resources. Extremely handy.

JaronK

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

If you Min-Maxed to obviously with some of the GMs I've had you'd be dead way before the guy who had to struggle to get his pool over 10. trust me
As for lightning bolt, it deals physical dammage that has the secondary effect of electric dammage. Check pages196-197 and 154 of SR4 if you don't beleive me. (can someone give me the page numbers for SR4A)
That said while were on the topic of electricty just a few things you can do with this brand of magic.
- Screw up equipment (pritty standerd)
- Activate plastic explosives. (Yes their resistant to heat, but not electricty)
- Make someone think they were struck by real lightning. Its the awakened world, and most likely seattle. Great way to get docwagon called. (Why you would want to I have no idea)

Electricity does not tend to activate Plastic Explosives unless they are using electrical detonators (which is actually pretty common)... Just sayin... Of course, Electricity at Natural Lightning Power Levels (1.21 Gigawatts; Sorry had to do it) just might...

C4 is not resistant to heat, it burns quite nicely... Hell, I used to cook my MRE's with C4 when I was in the Field... freaked people out from time to time

Keep the Faith

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

C4 is not resistant to heat, it burns quite nicely... Hell, I used to cook my MRE's with C4 when I was in the Field... freaked people out from time to time

Keep the Faith

You know, this is the kind of thing that makes people seat on other tables AWAY from you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Matsci]

Electricity does not tend to activate Plastic Explosives unless they are using electrical detonators (which is actually pretty common)... Just sayin... Of course, Electricity at Natural Lightning Power Levels (1.21 Gigawatts; Sorry had to do it) just might...

C4 is not resistant to heat, it burns quite nicely... Hell, I used to cook my MRE's with C4 when I was in the Field... freaked people out from time to time

Keep the Faith

Arsenal Sayz

Heat does not really affect modern explosives, and neither does fire—plastic explosives can be burned without exploding, and in fact are often used as a firelighter or even for cooking by soldiers in the field. Many older explosives, though, detonate when set on fire.

For example, an electric detonator (or a whole circuit of them) can be set off by a spell using the elemental effect of electricity—this is obviously bad if it happens unintentionally, but it can also be done on purpose (if a character has no exploder, for example).

Solution? Keep the bloodly detonators out of the explosives.

[JaronK]

I'm not sure this kind of spell could work the way you used them. If someone throwed some anatomical spare parts at you, then yes, they would have been stopped because those would be separate items.

But as long as they are part of a live metahuman I don't think they could be targeted specifically, the same way I would not allow the use of a "Wreck cybereyes" spells to blind you foes with minimal drain.

The thing is, the physical barrier spell doesn't target anything. You can't have Stunbolt (Brains Only) or Wreck (cybereyes) because those are combat spells and have to target the whole person, but here we're talking about a wall that's only solid to certain objects. They run into it, you don't target it at them. Also it's a manipulation spell, not a combat spell (remember, elemental manipulations at least can hit things you can't see). If you used Poltergeist you could fling something at stuff you can't see, and this is a similar principle. So, I think it works. Of course, your enemies can see the barrier, but that might not be enough to save them.

JaronK

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Arsenal Sayz


Solution? Keep the bloodly detonators out of the explosives.

Exactly right... without detonators, most modern explosives are extrememly stable...

Mercury of Fulminate (most setonators are made from this), however, is not so much...

Keep the Faith

[Hound]

as far as I know, you HAVE to have LOS on whatever you're casting on. Whether the spell is indirect or not doesn't matter. I suppose if it's an LOS(A) spell, then that's fine, but if it's single target, you have to see it/know it's there.


Never steal a car when taking the bus will work (Actually happened in a game once. Two of the team found themselves without transportation, one got on a bus, the other decided to try and steal a car, ended up getting arrested by the Star.) The real lesson is: just because you're a shadowrunner doesn't mean you can't do legal things, especially if you have a fake SIN. Doing things the legal way, when you can, is almost always safer so don't take risks you don't need to.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

as far as I know, you HAVE to have LOS on whatever you're casting on. Whether the spell is indirect or not doesn't matter. I suppose if it's an LOS(A) spell, then that's fine, but if it's single target, you have to see it/know it's there.


Never steal a car when taking the bus will work (Actually happened in a game once. Two of the team found themselves without transportation, one got on a bus, the other decided to try and steal a car, ended up getting arrested by the Star.) The real lesson is: just because you're a shadowrunner doesn't mean you can't do legal things, especially if you have a fake SIN. Doing things the legal way, when you can, is almost always safer so don't take risks you don't need to.

Indirect Spells DO NOT require LOS to cast...
All you have to see is the point of impact for the spell... anything within the area of effect from that point is subject to the spell's effects (whether they are behind cover or not), The big benefit to this is the Spells secondary effects, if any, as most elemental Indirect Spells have secondary effects... that is why they have a much higher drain code than Direct Combat Spells...

Keep the Faith

[Rad]

K-10 + Capsule Rounds + Sniper Rifle = Good distraction. Use on guards.

> K-10 + Capsules Rounds + Sniper Rifle = Great assassination method. Use on bodyguards.

(My team did this in Ghost Cartels once, turned the mark's super-adept bodyguards against him, then sat back with a readied action to headshot anyone who didn't follow the "script.")

> In the hands of an expert rigger, a bulldozer is surprisingly effective against a Mitsuhama strike team.

> Step 1: Learn the chemistry skill
> Step 2: Develop an addiction to chemical masking cigarettes
> Step 3: ???
> Step 4: Profit!

> Home-built grenades made from liquid explosives and empty beer cans are a refreshing solution to any problem--just pull the tab and enjoy!

> Always keep a case of beer-grenades in the car in case you get pulled over.

> When breaking into, blowing up, or otherwise performing a run that involves a facility of some kind, *always* get a detailed map of the water, sewer, and gas/electric/data lines for the general area, as well as a run down of any neighboring buildings--type, purpose, owners ect. Being able to disrupt utilities or otherwise use them to your advantage is priceless.

> Well-placed explosives in the sewer lines surrounding a building are a great way to get a cleaning crew sent in.

> Posing as a cleaning crew is a great way to gain access to a facility.

> Corpsec is much more keen on letting automated drones into secure areas than a metahuman cleaning crew.

> Your standard cleaning drone can carry 10 liters of liquid explosives and has a built-in spray nozzle.

> Putting Warp in the ventilation system is great for morale

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

> K-10 + Capsules Rounds + Sniper Rifle = Great assassination method. Use on bodyguards.

(My team did this in Ghost Cartels once, turned the mark's super-adept bodyguards against him, then sat back with a readied action to headshot anyone who didn't follow the "script.")

> In the hands of an expert rigger, a bulldozer is surprisingly effective against a Mitsuhama strike team.

> Step 1: Learn the chemistry skill
> Step 2: Develop an addiction to chemical masking cigarettes
> Step 3: ???
> Step 4: Profit!

> Home-built grenades made from liquid explosives and empty beer cans are a refreshing solution to any problem--just pull the tab and enjoy!

> Always keep a case of beer-grenades in the car in case you get pulled over.

> When breaking into, blowing up, or otherwise performing a run that involves a facility of some kind, *always* get a detailed map of the water, sewer, and gas/electric/data lines for the general area, as well as a run down of any neighboring buildings--type, purpose, owners ect. Being able to disrupt utilities or otherwise use them to your advantage is priceless.

> Well-placed explosives in the sewer lines surrounding a building are a great way to get a cleaning crew sent in.

> Posing as a cleaning crew is a great way to gain access to a facility.

> Corpsec is much more keen on letting automated drones into secure areas than a metahuman cleaning crew.

> Your standard cleaning drone can carry 10 liters of liquid explosives and has a built-in spray nozzle.

> Putting Warp in the ventilation system is great for morale

How Rude... But I love them...

Keep the Faith

[JaronK]

as far as I know, you HAVE to have LOS on whatever you're casting on. Whether the spell is indirect or not doesn't matter. I suppose if it's an LOS(A) spell, then that's fine, but if it's single target, you have to see it/know it's there.

We're talking about indirect wall spells, which do indeed have an area. You have to see where you cast the spell, but once cast it just sits there. That's the point... you cast a limited wall spell, and try to get the enemies to run into it (casting it directly in front of a moving car such that the wall takes up the whole road makes this much easier).

So yes, you do need to have LOS to whatever you're casting on, but you're casting on a point in space that you can see, and then letting other people who you can't see (because they're in a car or whatever) run into it.

JaronK

[tisoz]

I do recall having the mana barrier (and by derivation your testicle/brain and by association computer barriers) in 2nd edition and having them work like you describe.

Then 3rd edition came out and I also found Dumpshock. I don't know if the edition change mandated the changing the way the spell worked or if it was a DS discussion and maybe a FAQ answer that was quoted, but I do know the mana barrier tactic worked against motorcycle riders, but no longer worked against people in an enclosed vehicle.

I'd say your derivatives would follow that precedent.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I do recall having the mana barrier (and by derivation your testicle/brain and by association computer barriers) in 2nd edition and having them work like you describe.

Then 3rd edition came out and I also found Dumpshock. I don't know if the edition change mandated the changing the way the spell worked or if it was a DS discussion and maybe a FAQ answer that was quoted, but I do know the mana barrier tactic worked against motorcycle riders, but no longer worked against people in an enclosed vehicle.

I'd say your derivatives would follow that precedent.

There is indeed precedent, but you have to watch how it is applied, because applied too literally and you cannot apply direct combat spells to Military Armor Clad Opponents... also, there is precedent in SR4A that Elemental Spell effects can affect someone completely enclosed in said armor/vehicles/etc. with no intervention of said armor, etc.

Goes both ways... I would adjudicate it on a case-by-case basis...

Keep the Faith

[tisoz]

There is indeed precedent, but you have to watch how it is applied, because applied too literally and you cannot apply direct combat spells to Military Armor Clad Opponents... also, there is precedent in SR4A that Elemental Spell effects can affect someone completely enclosed in said armor/vehicles/etc. with no intervention of said armor, etc.

Goes both ways... I would adjudicate it on a case-by-case basis...

Keep the Faith

Until the Military Armor makes them resemble a tank, their aura is going to leak through where it presses against the wearer and make them a viable target.

Elemental effects can go around corners, etcetera as they have become a physical thing and so you have to track what that physical thing could do.

I think I am done discussing this, and derailing the thread. Just remember, if you try using a tactic where it's conforming to the rules was debated, the GM may not agree with you. Likewise, as the GM, if you introduce a tactic, plan on the players quickly adopting it.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Until the Military Armor makes them resemble a tank, their aura is going to leak through where it presses against the wearer and make them a viable target.

Elemental effects can go around corners, etcetera as they have become a physical thing and so you have to track what that physical thing could do.

I think I am done discussing this, and derailing the thread. Just remember, if you try using a tactic where it's conforming to the rules was debated, the GM may not agree with you. Likewise, as the GM, if you introduce a tactic, plan on the players quickly adopting it.

No Arguments and No Doubt...

Keep the Faith