Imaging scopes Options

[Joe Chummer]

I'm starting to build my first SR character using SR4 rules, and I came across something I can't figure out.

According to pg 322 of SR4A, "Imaging scopes can be upgraded with any of the vision enhancements noted on pg 333."

When I go to pg. 333, it says, "Each enhancement costs 1 Capacity." However, I cannot find what the Capacity rating of a weapon-mounted imaging scope is. Does this mean I can take only one enhancement per scope, or does it mean I can take as many enhancements on the scope as I can afford to pay for?

Also, if I don't take ANY enhancements on the scope, is it effectively worthless? Since the item description doesn't mention it having any inherent vision enhancements, it sounds like a scope is basically an empty metal tube until you give it a vision enhancement.

[Udoshi]

You may want to consult the sensor packages table on 334 - mounted might be appropriate, but it would do odd things like letting you put radar on a rifle scope.

The easiest solution is to treat it like a rating 3 camera. The scope costs 300, and a camera costs 100 x rating, and apply enhancements from there. Ultimately, thats a decision for you GM . Maybe someone has a better answer.

Edit: Annoyingly, the Guncam in arsenal doesn't state its capacity either.

[Joe Chummer]

You may want to consult the sensor packages table on 334 - mounted might be appropriate, but it would do odd things like letting you put radar on a rifle scope.

The easiest solution is to treat it like a rating 3 camera. The scope costs 300, and a camera costs 100 x rating, and apply enhancements from there. Ultimately, thats a decision for you GM . Maybe someone has a better answer.

Edit: Annoyingly, the Guncam in arsenal doesn't state its capacity either.

Only thing is, this isn't a sensor package with imaging enhancements; it's a mountable scope for a firearm.

[Karoline]

Basing it off how they modified binoculars, I'd imagine you should go with the idea that the entry for it should read:
Scope (Rating 1-3) capacity 1-3 availability (Whatever) cost: rating x 150 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

I figure binoculars are the closest thing in the vision section to a scope, and from the SR4 to SR4A they went from Price to Price/2*rating as the cost, and allowed for 1-3 rating.

You might be able to make an argument that it should be able to go to a higher rating (I mean glasses can get 4), but that is more or less the form I think you might want to follow.

[Saint Sithney]

Well, honestly, you could slap a scope the size of a small dog on top of a rifle if you wanted, so I don't imagine there is any upwards limit. Only option I'd include as stock is vision magnification.

Do remember though that you won't get any benefits from a scope without using a simple action to take aim.

[MikeKozar]

Looks like there's no hard and fast Rule as Written, so the final call is your GM's. All you can really do is put it together so that it makes sense to you, so that it sounds good when you explain it to him.

Capacity 3 has already been justified pretty well in this thread, and that gives you room for a *reasonable* sensor package - say image magnification (always worth having), flare compensators (for when your teammates forget to mention they're throwing flashbangs at the guys you're picking off) and an alternate vision mode of your choice - low light, thermal or ultrasonic. This is a good way to get access to a spectrum you don't already have in your eyes/goggles.

If you really want to try and break the game, try and get your DM to approve an Ultrawideband Radar system connected to your scope. (Arsenal, Pg. 60) When you turn this baby on, you can see through light walls and detect hidden weapons and cyberware. He's probably going to look for ways to use it against you (radar-detecting enemies, electronic warfare scrambling your signal) but you really only need to headshot a guy on the far side of a door once for it to all be worthwhile.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Looks like there's no hard and fast Rule as Written, so the final call is your GM's. All you can really do is put it together so that it makes sense to you, so that it sounds good when you explain it to him.

Capacity 3 has already been justified pretty well in this thread, and that gives you room for a *reasonable* sensor package - say image magnification (always worth having), flare compensators (for when your teammates forget to mention they're throwing flashbangs at the guys you're picking off) and an alternate vision mode of your choice - low light, thermal or ultrasonic. This is a good way to get access to a spectrum you don't already have in your eyes/goggles.

If you really want to try and break the game, try and get your DM to approve an Ultrawideband Radar system connected to your scope. (Arsenal, Pg. 60) When you turn this baby on, you can see through light walls and detect hidden weapons and cyberware. He's probably going to look for ways to use it against you (radar-detecting enemies, electronic warfare scrambling your signal) but you really only need to headshot a guy on the far side of a door once for it to all be worthwhile.

Great idea, but the radar system only has a range of 100 meters... pretty useless at Sniper Ranges beyond that range... though being able to see through a wall is pretty nifty indeed...

Keep the Faith

[MikeKozar]

Great idea, but the radar system only has a range of 100 meters... pretty useless at Sniper Ranges beyond that range... though being able to see through a wall is pretty nifty indeed...

Keep the Faith

Indeed, it's not going to be as exclusively long-range as one of the other builds - it's a 2-capacity upgrade, so you'd have a Image Magnification and the Radar mod only. This isn't a dealbreaker in my book, though - you should have secondary optics with Image Enhancement and Image Link anyway, and there's no reason not to kit them out with Thermal and Flare Compensators.

If you are putting it on a weapon that could wind up getting brought into a building, you've just gone from 'the guy who can pick off a guard at a kilometer away' to 'the guy who can pick off a guard right through the wall'. The shooting through barriers rules get pretty kind if the barrier is 'transparent' - add +2 armor to the target if he's behind drywall, +4 armor if he's behind a tree or plastiboard. Since you're not in the room, you probably have the drop on them, so take three 'take aim' actions before you take your shot, and enjoy the fact that he doesn't get a dodge roll.

Do check up on the Sniper Rifle rules if you want to bring one with you indoors - most of them have penalties if they get knocked around.



~Mike
Deadmetal: You, Sir, are a Dick GM.

[Karoline]

Do check up on the Sniper Rifle rules if you want to bring one with you indoors - most of them have penalties if they get knocked around.
~Mike
Deadmetal: You, Sir, are a Dick GM.

Actually I think only one sniper rifle has that disadvantage. Oddly enough most of them -don't- seem to suffer unduly from being used in melee ranges. I like the sounds of that radar vision thing to snipe through walls though. I'll have to look into that for my sniper character.

[Chrysalis]

Well, honestly, you could slap a scope the size of a small dog on top of a rifle if you wanted, so I don't imagine there is any upwards limit. Only option I'd include as stock is vision magnification.

Do remember though that you won't get any benefits from a scope without using a simple action to take aim.

I guess my 3AM question is: Why would you want to mount a small dog on top of a rifle?

[Karoline]

I guess my 3AM question is: Why would you want to mount a small dog on top of a rifle?

So that you can tell people that your bark is worse than your bite?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So that you can tell people that your bark is worse than your bite?

That was really bad...

[Karoline]

That was really bad...

I know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Saint Sithney]

If you really want to try and break the game, try and get your DM to approve an Ultrawideband Radar system connected to your scope.

Putting image link on your scope and feeding it data from a small drone sensor can provide a sniper with x-ray shooting. 2000 for the MCT Fly-Spy drone. Feed it lvl3 Covert Ops autosoft (600), Chameleon Coating (2000) as well as your typical battery of ECCM then slave it to your comlink. Now you've got a see-through spotter that throws good dice to stay out of sight. Well, except for thermals. But that's why you throw on the signature masking when you're prettying it up later. Total cost including the sensors is 6600. Throws 6 dice of infiltration against a -6 impaired perception test, oh, and it can see straight through a blast door. Probably want a signal upgrade though, so it'll work at range.

Or if you need it to get set up faster than a slow ass flyspy, use the Lockheed Optic-X. Costs 300 less, but runs heads up against anyone's perception tests, so it's got a better chance of being spotted.

[Tachi]

Third party targeting. I've always liked that. You should read David Weber's In Fury Born. There is a part where the main character puts exactly that to VERY good use on her first mission. 49 kills with 50 rounds.

*Suddenly wants to listen to Drowning Pool's Bodies.*