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> Recoil Compensation
Ameranth
post Oct 14 2009, 09:51 AM
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So the new edition doesn't allow gas vents on shotguns. This kinda makes sense for single shots, but I don't see why it should apply to burst capable shotguns. Cest la vie... In the meantime I'm looking for alternate ways to still be able to use my beloved Enfield AS-7.

Using the rules in Arsenal, I'm looking at an auto-adjusting weight, personalized grip, and shock pad. This brings me up to a 4 RC, leaving a -2 mod on the 2nd burst. I'll see if I can talk the GM into letting me use the STR recoil rules, but there's also some ambiguity in the auto-adjusting weight that may cover it...

An auto-adjusting weight (Arsenal p 153) says it gives:
1 RC on the first shot, and 2 RC on the 2nd shot
2 RC on FA mode

Is that '1 RC on the first shot, 2 if you fire a 2nd', or is it '1 RC on the first shot, plus 2 more on the 2nd, for a total of 3 RC'? The wording implies 3 RC, but that seems wrong when FA mode only gets a total of 2.

For that matter, you can also fire 2 bursts in FA mode (LB+SB), so which rule would you use then? 2 RC total for FA mode? 2 RC for the LB, followed by 2 more for the 2nd SB for a total of 4? That seems massively overpowered.

Also, the word 'shot' would imply that the first rule only applies to SA mode, not BF, since the combat rules always refer to single shots as 'shot' and any kind of burst as a 'burst'.

Can anybody clear this up?



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attilatheyeon
post Oct 14 2009, 09:57 AM
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I beleive it is one more on the second shot, but you can add a heavy barrel for another point of recoil comp
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Karoline
post Oct 14 2009, 10:02 AM
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Didn't know 4A took out gas vents on shotguns. That doesn't make alot of sense. If you're firing flechette I could understand, but regular rounds shouldn't be a problem... whatever.

What the 1 RC on the first shot, and 2 RC on the 2nd shot means is basically that you get 1 RC for each burst.

So on burst one you get 1 RC, then on burst two it goes up to 2 RC.

So say for example you take your current gun. First burst goes like this: 3 shots is -2 penelty, you have 3 RC (1 personal grip, 1 shock pad, and 1 weight), so no net penelty. Second burst: 3 more shots (6 total) is -5, but your auto-adjusting weight has gone from 1 RC to 2 RC, so you now have 4 RC (1 personal grip, 1 shock pad, 2 weight) which gives you a net -1 penalty from RC.

QUOTE
Also, the word 'shot' would imply that the first rule only applies to SA mode, not BF, since the combat rules always refer to single shots as 'shot' and any kind of burst as a 'burst'.

I figure this is just bad terminology on their part, and they meant 'attack' so as to encompass single shots and burst fires.
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Ameranth
post Oct 14 2009, 10:20 AM
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QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 14 2009, 10:02 AM) *
which gives you a net -1 penalty from RC.


-2 actually. Shotguns also get doubled penalties for recoil. Thus my quest to reduce it to 0. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Ameranth
post Oct 14 2009, 10:21 AM
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Thanks guys,yYou both confirmed the way I figured it worked. The correct ruling seems obvious, but the wording was very poor so it could have been argued either way.

QUOTE (attilatheyeon @ Oct 14 2009, 09:57 AM) *
I beleive it is one more on the second shot, but you can add a heavy barrel for another point of recoil comp


In 4th, heavy barrel only has an effect in FA mode. Many of the RC mods have that qualifier now.
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Ranger
post Oct 14 2009, 04:33 PM
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QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 14 2009, 03:02 AM) *
Didn't know 4A took out gas vents on shotguns. That doesn't make alot of sense. If you're firing flechette I could understand, but regular rounds shouldn't be a problem... whatever.


I didn't realize that, either. But, I just looked it up, and indeed, shotguns are not listed as being able to have a gas-vent system.

From SR4A, page 322:
QUOTE
Gas-Vent System: Gas-vent recoil compensation systems vent a weapon’s barrel gases at a specific vector to counter barrel climb. Gasvent systems can be built into machine pistols, SMGs, assault rifles, and machine guns.


Shotguns are not included. Very odd how in Arsenal, the Auto-Assault 16 "includes an integral gas vent 2 system for 2 points of recoil compensation" (Arsenal, 28). I think I'll allow the gas-vent system on shotguns in my game.
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Marwynn
post Oct 14 2009, 05:05 PM
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A Shotgun with Personalized Grip, Shock Pad, and Auto-Adjusting Weight. If you're firing Narrow or Wide Bursts it's 1/2, but a Long Burst is a FA so you get 2 right off the bat.

Say you fire two Wide Bursts, -2 for the first shot, -3 for the second.

With PG, SP, and AAW you have RC 3 for the first action phase, that leaves you with 1 RC. AAW gives you another one, so for the second shot you have 2 RC against a -3. Recoil Compensation regenerates after an Action Phase.

Going Full Auto, say a Long Burst and a Short Burst is -5 to start with, then -3. You have RC 4 to start with, since it's Full Auto. That gives you a -1 penalty for the first shot and a -4 for the short burst after.

All doubled of course as it is a Shotgun, like heavy weapons.
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Orcus Blackweath...
post Oct 14 2009, 06:57 PM
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There is always the gyro mount or bipod as well.

I imagine that you are meant to use a bipod when firing one of the monsters. You can also just go for suppressive fire and forget about RC. Mounting an articulated weapon arm seem like the best answer to your issue though. Since concealment is not your worry here feel free to load up on military armor.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 15 2009, 01:08 AM
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QUOTE (Orcus Blackweather @ Oct 14 2009, 11:57 AM) *
There is always the gyro mount or bipod as well.

I imagine that you are meant to use a bipod when firing one of the monsters. You can also just go for suppressive fire and forget about RC. Mounting an articulated weapon arm seem like the best answer to your issue though. Since concealment is not your worry here feel free to load up on military armor.



Cyberarm Gyromounts work well as well...
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Orcus Blackweath...
post Oct 15 2009, 04:53 AM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 14 2009, 06:08 PM) *
Cyberarm Gyromounts work well as well...

Kinda pricey. You could also mount the weapon on a vehicle or have it installed inside of a cyberlimb.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 16 2009, 02:52 AM
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QUOTE (Orcus Blackweather @ Oct 14 2009, 09:53 PM) *
Kinda pricey. You could also mount the weapon on a vehicle or have it installed inside of a cyberlimb.


Not that pricey... and a gun inside of a cyberlimb gets no additional Recoil COmpensation unless the arm has a Cyberarm Gyromount... Since we are looking for Recoil Compensation, the Cyberarm Gyromount makes a lot more sense than having a gun installed into a cyberlimb...

Keep the Faith Bryan
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