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> Imagelinks and astral perception.
Hagga
post Oct 19 2009, 01:25 PM
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If astral perception is running, and you've got an implanted imagelink that is currently displaying things, how does it work? As normal? They just don't interact - while it might highlight something in the physical, trying to get a tag on the astral things just wouldn't register?
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Xahn Borealis
post Oct 19 2009, 01:32 PM
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Astral perception cuts you off from your normal sense. You see one or the other. Switching to Astral means you see JUST the astral.
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Ravor
post Oct 19 2009, 01:43 PM
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Exactly, you don't even need eyes in order to "see" the Astral, and you are unable to read any book that you may pick up either unless the owner has an emotional investment in said book, and even then you can't read the actual words, but rather the owner's emotional interuptation of said words.
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pbangarth
post Oct 19 2009, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE (Xahn Borealis @ Oct 19 2009, 09:32 AM) *
Astral perception cuts you off from your normal sense. You see one or the other. Switching to Astral means you see JUST the astral.


This is not always the case. When one is astrally perceiving, but not projecting, one is a dual-natured being, and can perceive both realms at the same time. This causes a clash of senses, though:

QUOTE (SR4A p. 191)
Whenever you have to perform a physical, non-magical task (shooting a gun, driving a car, and so forth) while astrally perceiving, you suffer a 2 dice pool penalty.
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Ravor
post Oct 19 2009, 06:17 PM
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Unless I've forgotten something while astrally perceiving one just has a choice of which realm to view at any given time, but the choice still has to be made.

*EDIT*

That is where I see the penalty as coming from, sure you are active in both realms, but you are only viewing the world through the Astral lens at that given time.
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pbangarth
post Oct 19 2009, 10:18 PM
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OK, so here's the quote from SR4A, p. 294 that gets to the point, and supports Ravor's position:
QUOTE
Dual Natured
Type: P Action: Auto Range: Self Duration: Always
A critter that is dual natured is active in the astral plane and can
affect astral beings as well as physical ones. Dual natured creatures have
the ability to perceive and interact with the astral plane similar to characters
using astral perception (see Astral Perception, p. 191). However,
innate dual nature is different from astral perception in that dual natured
critters can always sense both the physical and astral worlds without
having to shift back and forth
. Their minds process a composite
of astral impressions and normal physical senses; consequently, dual
natured critters do not suffer the 2 dice pool modifier for interacting
with the physical world while astrally perceiving.
(emphasis mine)

So you do see only one plane at a time, but can switch back and forth quickly in order to be able to act in either and not drive off a cliff (except for the -2 dice penalty).
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Muspellsheimr
post Oct 19 2009, 10:26 PM
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QUOTE (SR4A p.191)
Many Awakened characters can perceive the astral plane from
the physical world. This ability is called astral perception. It is the
primary sense used in the astral plane; it shows auras, allowing
magicians to examine living creatures in the physical world as well
as creatures who live on the astral plane. Astral Perception is available
to characters who take the Magician quality during character
generation (p. 91), or to adepts and mystic adepts who buy the
Astral Perception power (p. 195). It takes a Simple Action to shift
one’s perception from the astral to the physical, and another to
shift it back again (it is not possible to see both at the same time,

though almost everything in physical space is reflected on the
astral, albeit without detail). A character using astral perception
is considered dual-natured, active on both the physical and astral
planes simultaneously.

QUOTE (SR4A p.191)
Whenever you have to perform a physical, non-magical task
(shooting a gun, driving a car, and so forth) while astrally perceiving,
you suffer a –2 dice pool penalty. While astrally perceiving, a magician
can cast mana spells at astral opponents. Other astral forms can
engage an astrally perceiving magician in astral combat (p. 193) or
cast mana spells at him as well.


In simple terms, pbangarth is entirely incorrect.
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pbangarth
post Oct 20 2009, 12:59 AM
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Thanks, Muspellsheimer, it would have helped if had I followed my own oft-given advice, and read the whole rule on p. 191.
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3278
post Oct 20 2009, 01:53 AM
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Yeah, only innately dual-natured beings can see both at once. Being dual-natured as a result of astral perception [as per p191, SR4, as quoted] doesn't count.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Oct 20 2009, 01:54 AM
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QUOTE (pbangarth @ Oct 19 2009, 05:59 PM) *
Thanks, Muspellsheimer, it would have helped if had I followed my own oft-given advice, and read the whole rule on p. 191.



DOn't sweat it pbangarth... we all get ahead of ourselves sometimes... what makes us human...

Keep the Faith
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Hagga
post Oct 20 2009, 03:56 AM
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QUOTE (3278 @ Oct 20 2009, 02:53 AM) *
Yeah, only innately dual-natured beings can see both at once. Being dual-natured as a result of astral perception [as per p191, SR4, as quoted] doesn't count.

So an innately dual natured being would act as described in the original post? While their AR overlay wouldn't have a damn clue what they were on about, they'd still SEE the overlay atop their astral sight?
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3278
post Oct 20 2009, 03:58 AM
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That would be my interpretation, but my 4th-edition-fu is weak, so I'll let someone better versed chime in, as well.
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Ravor
post Oct 20 2009, 05:57 PM
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Perhaps, but I don't think that the overlay would actually help matters, I think it may be similair to trying to track too many things at once and making things worse.
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