Shadowrun in Other Systems, Namely Savage Worlds Options

[Harboe]

Hi!

I'm (as evident by my post count) new to these forums (although, I've been lurking for a few months).
I'm interested in Shadowrun and I have SR4A. Things is... it's clunky, compared to other systems I've tried.
While I am beginning to see the rule system as fairly consistent and useful, knowing the people I game with, the mechanics aren't all that intuitive. Other times, looking up information is a lot harder than it should be (I tried looking up how much damage a punch would be, using the index to no avail, until I just skimmed pages at random to find it).

As I often do, when introduced to interesting settings with mechanics I don't quite relate to, I turned to my go-to system: Savage Worlds.
Savage Worlds - for those of you who don't know it - is a generic system. It's called rules-light by some and that's true to some extent, though it's actually quite detailed when you start digging into it. Best of all, for 9.99$, 12£ or 80DKR (the currency of my nation; Denmark), you can get the complete ruleset in a nice digest-sized book. It's quick, intuitive and easy to learn (which makes it harder to "master," as those things usually work).
Okay, that's the salespitch (didn't mean for it to come out that way, but it did).

---

So here's what this thread is about.
I'm making a conversion of the Shadowrun setting, as presented in SR4A, mixed with what I've gleaned from various pieces of SR fiction and my own interpretation of flavour.

In this conversion, I intend to make Astral Combat and Cyber Combat less of a solo-adventure. It seems to me, that when a Decker/Hacker or Otaku/Technomancer is doing Cybercombat, the rest of the group can twiddle their thumbs and go on a food-run. The same for Astral Combat.
That's... less than ideal for keeping all players interested and active in my opinion.
That's one thing I hope I'll be able to make work.

Gear, being something that usually takes hours to do, has thus far taken up 5 A4 pages, covering armour, weapons, commlinks, magical foci and miscellaneous items. It's far from an extensive list, but it should be enough (and more can be added in due time).

Cyber-, bio-, nano- and geneware are all covered in 1,5 A4 page. It doesn't do everything that you can do with it in SR4, but it has the same effect in 90% of the cases and that's enough to satsify me, honestly. Wired Reflexes and other "Initiative-Pass boosters" have been dropped, as the Savage World equivalent already exists in the core rules and I see no reason to re-do that work.

Now, that tells you a little about what I've done so far.

Now, I've got a few questions for the community:
1 - What things makes Shadowrun the setting it is in your mind (apart from just magic, technology and money)?
2 - Has any of you tried making a conversion of Shadowrun to either Savage Worlds or another system (and how'd it go)?
3 - Is toning down the frequency and duration cybercombat and astral combat something that'd make the world "less Shadowrun"?
4 - What (mechanical/crunch) things would have to be in any conversion of Shadowrun to make you even consider playing it?
5 - Are the mechanics so great a part of the game, that changing the rules while keeping the setting intact, something that would make for less of a story?

[Synner667]

Hmmm...
...Considering how Savage Worlds is the favourite conversion flavour of the month, I'm be surprised if someone else hasn't already done much of this work.

I did the conversion years ago for Dangerous Journeys [from SR v2], which was "interesting"

I did the conversion to Trinity/Adventure/Aberrant rules about 10 years ago - basically gives you SR v4, but I had less cyberware.


Best of luck with your endeavour.

[Jhaiisiin]

I'd honestly tap Cain for info on this. He used to constantly espouse about how awesome SW was, so it's possible he already did or knows of a conversion.

[crash2029]

Wilkommen to DSF, Harboe!

[Harboe]

Thanks for the welcome and the advice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've decided to give myself some extra work and create a short storyline of linked adventures (plot-point style) and create some archetype characters.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Thanee]

Savage Worlds is very cool. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But Shadowrun is only really Shadowrun with its own rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


The problem with Astral Space and the Matrix being experienced solo isn't a rules problem. It's just the way they are. If only some can access them, once you go there, the rest won't come. You can, of course, sometimes have things happen simultaneously in both/all 'worlds', but sometimes this won't be an option. If the mage goes astral scouting, it's only the mage that is doing something.

Bye
Thanee

[Kagetenshi]

But Shadowrun is only really Shadowrun with its own rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

See, that's what I said, but yet here we are… (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But yes, to the extent that decking and astral scouting are problems, they're design problems; it's not really a "rules problem" that only Mages can project. It's less obvious, but the same issue applies other places; with a few exceptions, when a character is doing their specialty, any character without the same specialty generally doesn't have much they can do that doesn't interfere. In this less-obvious form the problem is universal rather than just Shadowrun.

~J

[LurkerOutThere]

Actually a mostly unrelated thing but i thought i'd ask it here..

What is the base book needed for savage worlds. I was looking at it on drive thru RPG the other day as I recently picke dup a hard copy of deadlands reloaded and nothing jumped out at me and said "this is the base book that you will need in addition to the book you have"

[Wordman]

What is the base book needed for savage worlds.

Most of the main Savage World games, like Deadlands, actually reproduce most of the rules anyway, so they really act as the "core system". But, if you want just the "core system" without an attached setting, you want Savage Worlds: Explorer's Edition. (You're not alone in not being able to figure this out; the Savage World product site is horribly arranged.)

As to the original question, whatever system you end up using, for Shadowrun, I would steal very liberally from John Wick's Wilderness of Mirrors. It solves a problem that most Shadowrun games don't even realize they have.

When (if) Dresden Files ever comes out, I'd look there for a porting possibility as well.

[LurkerOutThere]

Thanks, unfortunately deadlands keeps refrencing the main book, hence the question.

[Harboe]

But yes, to the extent that decking and astral scouting are problems, they're design problems; it's not really a "rules problem" that only Mages can project. It's less obvious, but the same issue applies other places; with a few exceptions, when a character is doing their specialty, any character without the same specialty generally doesn't have much they can do that doesn't interfere. In this less-obvious form the problem is universal rather than just Shadowrun.

I know that it'll be impossible to stop it entirely, but if it takes only half as long to finish things like Astral Combat or Decking, then the other payers are less likely to fall asleep or decide to just try out that new pizza-place down the road while it's going on.

I'm thinking specifically about making it a single die roll (a shock, I know) that will determine how things go in Cybercombat. If the modified total of the roll equals 1 or less, the Decker has set off security. On a critical failure (rolling snake-eyes), you do the cyber-version of combat [of course, a player may choose to set it off deliberately].

Astral Form would be 90% description, but the GM would draw a card from the deck to see if he's attacked by anything [obviously, if he's entering a facility in astral form, it'll just indicate how long it'll take the spirit to notice him and come running].

It could probably be used as a SR houserule, but... well, I like Savage Worlds.

[Thanee]

Thanks, unfortunately deadlands keeps refrencing the main book, hence the question.

Yep. Deadlands: Reloaded is not a stand-alone game (as the classic Deadlands was), but a campaign setting for Savage Worlds.

The setting books (plot points) do not contain the full rules; only setting-specific stuff. You need one of the incarnations of the rulebook (the Explorer's Edition is really the perfect choice here, nice small book and doesn't even cost much; I'm not even sure whether the 'regular' revised rulebook is available still).

Bye
Thanee

[RobertB]

If you finish this project, post it here:

http://www.savageheroes.com/conversions.htm

There's currently no Shadowrun conversion shown.

[Harboe]

Yep. Deadlands: Reloaded is not a stand-alone game (as the classic Deadlands was), but a campaign setting for Savage Worlds.

The setting books (plot points) do not contain the full rules; only setting-specific stuff. You need one of the incarnations of the rulebook (the Explorer's Edition is really the perfect choice here, nice small book and doesn't even cost much; I'm not even sure whether the 'regular' revised rulebook is available still).

Bye
Thanee

The revised version is probably available used, but the Explorer's format was instituted, when they had to reprint the book (presumably after having sold all of the Revised versions), updating minor aspects (higher melee damage and a single Edge being the only differences I've noticed). Same with the other Savage books from Pinnacle. Once they've been sold out in their current version, the reprint will be in "Explorer's format."
Whether other companies (such as TAG) will follow suit is the question...

[Thanee]

The EE also misses a few things, but nothing vital. For example, I think the revised hardcover has some races written up (but those really belong to the Plot Point books, anyways, or the Companions; right now there is only the Fantasy Companion available).

Bye
Thanee

[Ayeohx]

Sorry for the off topic, but I gotta ask, is Deadlands any good? For some wierd reason in my 20 years of gaming I've never played it...

[Harboe]

Sorry for the off topic, but I gotta ask, is Deadlands any good? For some wierd reason in my 20 years of gaming I've never played it...

It's good, if a bit quirky.
The tagline is: The Weird West.

Not being American, I'm always messing up the names of those historical battles, but during one of those god-awful wars, where the (Real Life)North should've won, something happened. Namely, the dead soldiers from the other side rising. Then they won. Then the Northern soldiers rose again and kept fighting the Southern ones.

Add werewolves, minor demons and the fact that every area has a Fear rating (showing how the general attitude is from a: "Keeping my gun handy" to "Arkham Asylum") and you've got a weird, dark setting.
It's quick to get used to, as the archetypes are easy to relate to (gunslinger, outlaw, card-shark, sheriff, clergyman... oh, and did I mention: ninjas*!) and you can do anything from politics (although that'll make sure you stay in certain areas), monster-huntin' (you'll gravitate towards certain areas) or any plot out of a Western or a horror movie.

* Or Chinese with kung fu skills. Just thought ninjas sounded better (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[kzt]

I keep having the urge to do a Hero conversion. There is one for SR3, but it is much too much a translation rather then a conversion.

But it's a LOT of work....

Anyway, good luck.

[Thanee]

Sorry for the off topic, but I gotta ask, is Deadlands any good?

No, it's not just any good. It's AWESOME!

Bye
Thanee

[Synner667]

I keep having the urge to do a Hero conversion. There is one for SR3, but it is much too much a translation rather then a conversion.

But it's a LOT of work....

Anyway, good luck.

Find a copy of CyberHERO [from way back]

it'll have much of what you want

[The Stray7]

Sorry for the off topic, but I gotta ask, is Deadlands any good? For some wierd reason in my 20 years of gaming I've never played it...

Very. Think Shadowrun, except the Awakening happened during the Battle of Gettysburg instead of 2011, with steampunk replacing the cyberpunk and with less fantasy and more horror. It's one of my favorite off-beat settings. It's got the American Balkanization going on, a continuing Cold War between the Union and the Confederacy, Native American Nations eating up much of the west, and a group of Railroad Barons acting like the AAA's, searching for a mysterious fuel called Ghost Rock (essentially coal made from the souls of the dead) nd The Reckoners (malevolent gods) trying to reshape the world with fear energy so that they can walk through (sounds like The Horrors to me).

[Lok1 :)]

I'm currently playing a Play by post useing the Solar System. Its been fun so far, though HARM is a little screwy.

[Ayeohx]

Very. Think Shadowrun, except the Awakening happened during the Battle of Gettysburg instead of 2011, with steampunk replacing the cyberpunk and with less fantasy and more horror. It's one of my favorite off-beat settings. It's got the American Balkanization going on, a continuing Cold War between the Union and the Confederacy, Native American Nations eating up much of the west, and a group of Railroad Barons acting like the AAA's, searching for a mysterious fuel called Ghost Rock (essentially coal made from the souls of the dead) nd The Reckoners (malevolent gods) trying to reshape the world with fear energy so that they can walk through (sounds like The Horrors to me).

Damn it!!! This sounds freakin sweet. My group wouldn't be happy if I jumped in another system though. The group barely dodged Mutants & Masterminds this month.

[Harboe]

*Sigh*

Good news, I finished the conversion.
Bad news, a lot of my work went to waste as I yesterday acquired the Sci-Fi Toolkit for Savage Worlds. I thought that some ideas on how to handle cyberware, decking and so on would be helpful. It was more than helpful and streamlined what I'd spent so long trying to piece together. In other words, the book was so good that I'm actually a bit mad because of it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

As it streamlined the rules so well, it also meant that my ~15 pages can be (more or less) be summed up like so [You'll lose only minor detalis, trust me]:

SAVAGERUN

Races:
Human: +1 Edge
Dwarf: +1 Vigour
Elf: +2 Charisma
Ork: +1 Strength
Troll: +1 Size

Gear:
AK-47 = Ares Predator
Commlink = Rig (Sci-Fi Toolkit)
Credstick = Free.
Armoured Suit (+2 armour, covers limbs and torso, 200nY, no weight)
Tag eraser - 20nY
Drones = Use Sci-Fi Toolkit and multiply their cost by anywhere between .1 to .01.

Magic:
3 powers, then as per Soul Drain Edge.
Assenssing is automatic (allows the player to see both the physical and astral plane simultaneously). Take -2 on all rolls based on sensory imput, while active.
Summoning Spirits is handled by either Bodyguard (Fantasy World Builder Guide) or Zombie (SW:EX), with changed trappings.

Cybernetics:
As per Sci-Fi Toolkit.
Is treated as Gear.
Max. (safe) limit = Vigour.
Imposes -1 on Spellcasting rolls.

Cybercombat
As per Sci-Fi Toolkit, with one change: Knowledge (Hacking) sets the max. die size for your Persona in Cybercombat.

Astral Combat
Functions like cybercombat (Sci-Fi Toolkit), with different trappings.

I'll playtest it with some friends when I get the time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Cain]

I was just about to suggest the sci-fi toolkit. It does much of the conversion work for you.

I'm currently running a Shadowrun conversion using the Wushu engine. It's going very well. You can still keep the Shadowrun "physics" and feel for the world by using good narration.