Mages : How do I Handle Them?, Theyr in my gamez killing my missionz Options

[Ayeohx]

The SR mage, especially one equiped with invisibility and a stable of spirits, is incredibly powerful and easily game shattering. I'm running a three player game (1 GM, 2 players) and we've only been running easy mundane missions until the last game. We swapped out the characters for one sammy and one wizard.

That said, the mage did some "holy crap" things with his magic. Casting invisibility (5 hits) on the sammy and letting him go to town. Unexpected and terribly effective versus a bunch of toughs that didn't have a good way to deal with the situation. I don't think that they got to fire one round.

Spirits are haxorz. You can chain cast spirits to their doom. Summon a force 4 fire elemental from hiding and saying "Go manifest in the helicopter's cockpit and kill everyone in it" seems to be way too effective. It seems that all tanks in the future have to carry at least one mage for issues like this and even then it'll probably be too late when with a fire elemental pops into material form on his lap.

Spirit concealment. Wow. -5 dice to perception is crazy when you consider that some enemies don't even have the perception skill and those that do receive DPs of 5 or 6. It helped made the extraction a cake walk.

I've started many a Shadowrun games in the past and ended many due to burnout. Now I'm starting to remember why I burn out so fast. D&D time again? (j/k... I think)

Edit:
I understand that I can have guys carrying certain pieces of gear to counter these guys specifically but I want to see normal ways of countering them. I don't want to force changes where they wouldn't have existed otherwise. For instance, I know that I can have every guy using Ultrasound goggles (I think that's their name) but does EVERYONE have those? If so, why are none of the example runners or NPCs using these countermeasures?

[Wounded Ronin]

The SR mage, especially one equiped with invisibility and a stable of spirits, is incredibly powerful and easily game shattering. I'm running a three player game (1 GM, 2 players) and we've only been running easy mundane missions until the last game. We swapped out the characters for one sammy and one wizard.

That said, the mage did some "holy crap" things with his magic. Casting invisibility (5 hits) on the sammy and letting him go to town. Unexpected and terribly effective versus a bunch of toughs that didn't have a good way to deal with the situation. I don't think that they got to fire one round.

Spirits are haxorz. You can chain cast spirits to their doom. Summon a force 4 fire elemental from hiding and saying "Go manifest in the helicopter's cockpit and kill everyone in it" seems to be way too effective. It seems that all tanks in the future have to carry at least one mage for issues like this and even then it'll probably be too late when with a fire elemental pops into material form on his lap.

Spirit concealment. Wow. -5 dice to perception is crazy when you consider that some enemies don't even have the perception skill and those that do receive DPs of 5 or 6. It helped made the extraction a cake walk.

I've started many a Shadowrun games in the past and ended many due to burnout. Now I'm starting to remember why I burn out so fast. D&D time again? (j/k... I think)

In 3rd edition Control Thoughts was also pretty ridiculous.

The solution is that opposition always needs competently-played magical support who can counterspell, banish spirits, also has umpteen spirits at the ready, and so on.

[Ayeohx]

In 3rd edition Control Thoughts was also pretty ridiculous.

The solution is that opposition always needs competently-played magical support who can counterspell, banish spirits, also has umpteen spirits at the ready, and so on.

Right, but mages are so freaking powerful how do you not instantly destroy the PCs? A few spirits can make crazy quick work of whatever they are set upon.

[Traul]

For instance, I know that I can have every guy using Ultrasound goggles (I think that's their name) but does EVERYONE have those? If so, why are none of the example runners or NPCs using these countermeasures?

Everyone should. It does not only help against invisible mages, but also against mundane ninjas wearing chameleon suit.

[Ayeohx]

Everyone should. It does not only help against invisible mages, but also against mundane ninjas wearing chameleon suit.

But everyone doesn't. I don't think the sample runners or the NPCs have them listed. Honestly, there is so much crap that people need to counter runners and security I'm surprised there isn't a master gear list some where. Guess it's time I go hunt one down.

This game is becoming a full time job.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

But everyone doesn't. I don't think the sample runners or the NPCs have them listed. Honestly, there is so much crap that people need to counter runners and security I'm surprised there isn't a master gear list some where. Guess it's time I go hunt one down.

This game is becoming a full time job.

Always has been in my opinion...

Anyway, to truly compensate for a mage, the opposition must have magical support... there are some things that you can do to limit the Mage's power, but to truly compete, opposition MUST have support of their own...

Keep the Faith...

[Ayeohx]

Keep the Faith...

I'm trying but I'm getting close to meltdown.

It seems like it's very easy for mages to begin battles first with spirits. So far in my games someone is getting the drop on someone else and it's usually the PCs (through ambushes and good planning). When the PC mage goes Astral he can just dump spirits anywhere, right? So if he thinks the opposition is up around the corner or in a vehicle he can go there astrally to confirm and start summoning or pulling spirits from standby, correct?

Spirits are just crazy powerful and I'm finding that what I have to do to counter them unreasonable and out of sync with what should be. If spirits weren't so bloody unstoppable (Force 5 and above) I wouldn't be worrying as much but god, they are so game breaking. They are terribly damaging and their powers really cause me some headaches. I guess drones are the same way; glad we're staying away from hacking for now.

[MikeKozar]

I'm trying but I'm getting close to meltdown.

It seems like it's very easy for mages to begin battles first with spirits. So far in my games someone is getting the drop on someone else and it's usually the PCs (through ambushes and good planning). When the PC mage goes Astral he can just dump spirits anywhere, right? So if he thinks the opposition is up around the corner or in a vehicle he can go there astrally to confirm and start summoning or pulling spirits from standby, correct?

Spirits are just crazy powerful and I'm finding that what I have to do to counter them unreasonable and out of sync with what should be. If spirits weren't so bloody unstoppable (Force 5 and above) I wouldn't be worrying as much but god, they are so game breaking. They are terribly damaging and their powers really cause me some headaches. I guess drones are the same way; glad we're staying away from hacking for now.

I've been having similar issues. There are some anti-mage tricks you can put into play at lower levels.

Gangers should have a good distribution of stat points. If the boss and his leutenant both have high will and charisma, they stand a chance of resisting spells and popping spirits. Electric damage doesn't count as 'normal' damage, and so tasers and stick'n'shock rounds are both recommended - remember that tasers are actually legal. I'd go with a nice heavy stun baton, or shock gloves, though - they seem tougher and more in line with the ganger image. As far as Invisibility, remember that they can still be heard, and the gangers can always guess with surpression fire (have them roll something to determine how close they get so the players don't think you're cheating) or grenades.

Low-security outfits can easily afford motion sensors - those automatic doors at the stuffer shack will open for mages under Improved Invisibility because they're Ultrasonic. They might even have a security company on speed dial, some kind of rent-a-mage, who will go astral at the first sign of shenanigans and zip in with a spirit or two. They might also have wards up, or just equip all their guards with biomonitors Arkham Asylum style so as soon as one guy goes down they sound the alarm. It's also reasonable to expect all the guards to have a 'less then lethal' electric backup weapon for legal reasons.

Corps might have a mage on site; they might have a bound spirit covering the place, or dual-natured paracritters on patrol. Regular guard dogs have good hearing and smell, so they might tip off the guards about invisible infiltrators. Don't forget about pressure sensors - they're cheap and hard to get around. If you trigger an alarm at a major facility, expect a security rigger to be on you as well - raildrones, gas dispensors, doors sealing you in and heavy response teams on speed dial are all at his virtual fingertips if the team blows just one infiltration roll.

Just a few ideas, hope they help.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'm trying but I'm getting close to meltdown.

It seems like it's very easy for mages to begin battles first with spirits. So far in my games someone is getting the drop on someone else and it's usually the PCs (through ambushes and good planning). When the PC mage goes Astral he can just dump spirits anywhere, right? So if he thinks the opposition is up around the corner or in a vehicle he can go there astrally to confirm and start summoning or pulling spirits from standby, correct?

Spirits are just crazy powerful and I'm finding that what I have to do to counter them unreasonable and out of sync with what should be. If spirits weren't so bloody unstoppable (Force 5 and above) I wouldn't be worrying as much but god, they are so game breaking. They are terribly damaging and their powers really cause me some headaches. I guess drones are the same way; glad we're staying away from hacking for now.

Here is a tip from our game... Not everyone agrees with this, but I think it works wonders to control the ubiquitous use of spirits...

When your mage summons spirits of Force 4 or greater, have them spend edge to resist the summonings (we use rating 4 as the start for this as smaller spirits, though useful, are generally considered to be less useful, as they are less powerful)... this will cause them to roll 2xForce for the SUmmoning resistance test, which can be very painful, and has the added benefit of using up one of the spirit's edge points in the process... If they are going to Bind the spirit, spend another Edge to resist that as well (3xForce... Ouch)...

Now, why would you do this you ask? Because spirits are not just some amorphous energy just waiting in the deep metaplanes for you to summon them, they are intelligent creatures that have their own agendas and priorities. Now, good roleplaying and proper attitude towars your spirits can mitigate this edge expenditure, but it takes constant effort to keep your spirits appeased and happy. And it provides wonderful opportunities for roleplaying the interactions of you, your spirits and the Tradition that you espouse for your magic... it adds some depth and breadth to the character as well... and also shows that Spirits are not just a commodity to be used and abused (as most mages tend to treat them in game, at least in my experience)...

I hope that this might help...

keep the Faith

[Marwynn]

Security companies should have a Rent-A-Mage with a few Bound Spirits. If they're chasing you in a chopper already why don't they have magical assets on their own? The corps would be the first to snag Talent.

Invisibility 5 means they couldn't see the Street Sam with any reliability. But they can still hear the guy, still smell him, and still hit him. Now if the Sam was just shooting with a sound and thermal suppressor it'd be harder to spot him.

If it was melee there'd be Blind Fighting rules to take into account, but gangers are tough unless they're 300 BP. They're usually proficient in close combat, one Troll should've been there for subdual. Pin the sam down. It'd be hard but they could've been smart about it, as predators often are, and circle their foe.

You haven't even mentioned Mental Manipulations yet which just lets you do all sorts of crazy without even needing the Sam. Spirit Concealment is kinda nuts yes.

[Ayeohx]

I've been having similar issues. There are some anti-mage tricks you can put into play at lower levels.

Gangers should have a good distribution of stat points. If the boss and his leutenant both have high will and charisma, they stand a chance of resisting spells and popping spirits. Electric damage doesn't count as 'normal' damage, and so tasers and stick'n'shock rounds are both recommended - remember that tasers are actually legal. I'd go with a nice heavy stun baton, or shock gloves, though - they seem tougher and more in line with the ganger image. As far as Invisibility, remember that they can still be heard, and the gangers can always guess with surpression fire (have them roll something to determine how close they get so the players don't think you're cheating) or grenades.

Low-security outfits can easily afford motion sensors - those automatic doors at the stuffer shack will open for mages under Improved Invisibility because they're Ultrasonic. They might even have a security company on speed dial, some kind of rent-a-mage, who will go astral at the first sign of shenanigans and zip in with a spirit or two. They might also have wards up, or just equip all their guards with biomonitors Arkham Asylum style so as soon as one guy goes down they sound the alarm. It's also reasonable to expect all the guards to have a 'less then lethal' electric backup weapon for legal reasons.

Corps might have a mage on site; they might have a bound spirit covering the place, or dual-natured paracritters on patrol. Regular guard dogs have good hearing and smell, so they might tip off the guards about invisible infiltrators. Don't forget about pressure sensors - they're cheap and hard to get around. If you trigger an alarm at a major facility, expect a security rigger to be on you as well - raildrones, gas dispensors, doors sealing you in and heavy response teams on speed dial are all at his virtual fingertips if the team blows just one infiltration roll.

Just a few ideas, hope they help.

Good info, thanks Mike. I appreciate you providing counters that aren't over the top (like "Everyone has Ultrasound!"). It's a good start. Do the book have any sections on dealing with mages and their shenanigans? Thanks for "shenanigans" Mike; I'm going to use that for the remainder of this conversation.

[3278]

The SR mage, especially one equiped with invisibility and a stable of spirits, is incredibly powerful and easily game shattering.

Sure is. Invisibility is bad, but how about Shapechange, or Influence? Or Mind Probe, for crying out loud! A spellcaster can do more-or-less anything he pleases to a mundane from as far away as the limit of his sight, and there's really very little [beyond getting out of sight; smoke's nice, and is a pretty inexpensive solution to invisible sammies, too] that mundanes can do about it. Yes, there is specialized equipment, but if the mage is a mile in the air being a raven before he drops the Powerball on the gangers, why would they be using it?

Professional settings have it a bit easier, with the possibility of staff mages, astral wards, tasked spirits, ultrasound systems, and all the smoke they can pipe to your location, but you're still not wrong: magic is a huge gamebreaker, and ultimately the only real defense is another mage, and he'd better be good at what he does.

[3278]

...those automatic doors at the stuffer shack will open for mages under Improved Invisibility because they're Ultrasonic.

Really? I ask because in real life, ultrasonic motion sensors are generally paired with something like a passive infrared sensor or a microwave sensor, and the door won't open unless both show [the same] movement; this reduces false positives due to electronic noise, dark currents in CCDs, and so on. If they were just ultrasonic, the local grocery store wouldn't set off your [god-damned too-sensitive] radar detector [that you ended up getting rid of because it made you drive too fast...or is that just me?]. Anyway, if it's different in Shadowrun, it'd be good to know!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Really? I ask because in real life, ultrasonic motion sensors are generally paired with something like a passive infrared sensor or a microwave sensor, and the door won't open unless both show [the same] movement; this reduces false positives due to electronic noise, dark currents in CCDs, and so on. If they were just ultrasonic, the local grocery store wouldn't set off your [god-damned too-sensitive] radar detector [that you ended up getting rid of because it made you drive too fast...or is that just me?]. Anyway, if it's different in Shadowrun, it'd be good to know!

Grocery stores that I frequent don't even have any doors, they are just a portal during open business hours...

I believe that 3278 is correct in hi=s assesment above...

Of Course... YMMV

Keep the Faith

[Ayeohx]

Sure is. Invisibility is bad, but how about Shapechange, or Influence? Or Mind Probe, for crying out loud! A spellcaster can do more-or-less anything he pleases to a mundane from as far away as the limit of his sight, and there's really very little [beyond getting out of sight; smoke's nice, and is a pretty inexpensive solution to invisible sammies, too] that mundanes can do about it. Yes, there is specialized equipment, but if the mage is a mile in the air being a raven before he drops the Powerball on the gangers, why would they be using it?

Professional settings have it a bit easier, with the possibility of staff mages, astral wards, tasked spirits, ultrasound systems, and all the smoke they can pipe to your location, but you're still not wrong: magic is a huge gamebreaker, and ultimately the only real defense is another mage, and he'd better be good at what he does.

I didn't want to be "right" here. I wanted "you are so wrong because you forgot that" instead. One of those rare instances I suppose. Well... should I boot the mage and go back to a two sammy game? Sure, they could only do the lower level runs but we had buckets of fun. Although it's like Pandora's Box; we know what happens with magic now, I guess we just have to handle it.

So, what is a good tactic for an enemy mage? Here are some scenarios.

1) Someone, a gang of runners, is breaking into the building that me (the mage) and my security team are protecting. I'm the only mage and I've got 1 LVL5 spirit in standby and I'm a good summoner (Skill 4). What do I do? Go astral and search for the intruders? Summon a watcher? Summon an air elemental to locate them?

2) I'm in a helicopter with my strike team and we are hunting for the runners that extracted an employee. What should I be doing? Providing overwatch for my helicopter with astral perception? Go astral and zip around the outside of the heli? What should I be doing with my spirits (2 lvl 5s on standby, can easily summon a lvl 3-4)?

[toturi]

The SR mage, especially one equiped with invisibility and a stable of spirits, is incredibly powerful and easily game shattering. I'm running a three player game (1 GM, 2 players) and we've only been running easy mundane missions until the last game. We swapped out the characters for one sammy and one wizard.

That said, the mage did some "holy crap" things with his magic. Casting invisibility (5 hits) on the sammy and letting him go to town. Unexpected and terribly effective versus a bunch of toughs that didn't have a good way to deal with the situation. I don't think that they got to fire one round.

Spirits are haxorz. You can chain cast spirits to their doom. Summon a force 4 fire elemental from hiding and saying "Go manifest in the helicopter's cockpit and kill everyone in it" seems to be way too effective. It seems that all tanks in the future have to carry at least one mage for issues like this and even then it'll probably be too late when with a fire elemental pops into material form on his lap.

Spirit concealment. Wow. -5 dice to perception is crazy when you consider that some enemies don't even have the perception skill and those that do receive DPs of 5 or 6. It helped made the extraction a cake walk.

I've started many a Shadowrun games in the past and ended many due to burnout. Now I'm starting to remember why I burn out so fast. D&D time again? (j/k... I think)

Edit:
I understand that I can have guys carrying certain pieces of gear to counter these guys specifically but I want to see normal ways of countering them. I don't want to force changes where they wouldn't have existed otherwise. For instance, I know that I can have every guy using Ultrasound goggles (I think that's their name) but does EVERYONE have those? If so, why are none of the example runners or NPCs using these countermeasures?

Mages are supposed to be powerful and good mages are worth many times their weight in gold. Remember, if you have a mage PC, he is supposed to be able to walk all over mundane opposition if he is smart about it. It helps if you keep the idea that well-built PCs should trump the example runners and NPCs firmly in mind. Most of the runs aren't anything to write home about, but when the shit hits the fan, well... that's when you don't get to write home.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Mages are supposed to be powerful and good mages are worth many times their weight in gold. Remember, if you have a mage PC, he is supposed to be able to walk all over mundane opposition if he is smart about it. It helps if you keep the idea that well-built PCs should trump the example runners and NPCs firmly in mind. Most of the runs aren't anything to write home about, but when the shit hits the fan, well... that's when you don't get to write home.

Well Said Toturi...

Keep the Faith

[Ayeohx]

Mages are supposed to be powerful and good mages are worth many times their weight in gold. Remember, if you have a mage PC, he is supposed to be able to walk all over mundane opposition if he is smart about it. It helps if you keep the idea that well-built PCs should trump the example runners and NPCs firmly in mind. Most of the runs aren't anything to write home about, but when the shit hits the fan, well... that's when you don't get to write home.

Okay, I see where you're going here, and I kind of agree, but how do you make the games fun? If the run isn't anything to write home about then it sounds kind of boring. And your other option was basically party wipe. In fact, this is my other problem: Trying to create fun game sessions that won't insta-gib everyone while still providing challenges. Before I started including mages again things were going well. Now I only see cakewalks or dead PCs.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Okay, I see where you're going here, and I kind of agree, but how do you make the games fun? If the run isn't anything to write home about then it sounds kind of boring. And your other option was basically party wipe. In fact, this is my other problem: Trying to create fun game sessions that won't insta-gib everyone while still providing challenges. Before I started including mages again things were going well. Now I only see cakewalks or dead PCs.

This is a tough concern... balancing is always a challenge when mages are involved... but generally, the mage needs to be concerned with defeating magical challenges rather than the mundane challenges that the Street Sam is concerned with, this will tend to keep the players on par... proper tools for proper tasks as it were...

Sorry that I cannot be of more direct help, but it is late...

Keep the Faith

[toturi]

Okay, I see where you're going here, and I kind of agree, but how do you make the games fun? If the run isn't anything to write home about then it sounds kind of boring. And your other option was basically party wipe. In fact, this is my other problem: Trying to create fun game sessions that won't insta-gib everyone while still providing challenges. Before I started including mages again things were going well. Now I only see cakewalks or dead PCs.

You can vary the opposition type. One day it may be another mage. The next a meddlesome free spirit. Yet the next day, a storm comes in and screws everyone over with a Background Count.

For myself, when I GM, I stress the lethality of the game system. I tell my players that if they do it right, things are smooth sailing. They usually play games where the GM thinks like you, I must "challenge" my players else it would not be "fun". They never know when the other shoe is going to drop. They can go for 2-3 runs with everything going smoothly, then on the next run, things go to hell (or they could just keep sailing smoothly on). The key is you aren't doing anything to jack up the tension, they do it to themselves. They keep second guessing,"What is he up to?" when the answer is simply,"Nothing." I always point out,"All I need is for 1 of you to screw up on 1 important roll and you are all screwed."

Every roll during the run, whether it is the Athletics check to climb the fence or the hacker getting into the system or the mage dropping the guards with a Stunball, they know that if they screw up, things go south. That's enough excitement, I'd think.

[Trench]

Id say the mage has had his moment of fun, and its not unreasonable to think that most security teams have some degree of countermeasures against the most common spells. Magic is powerful, but its been around a while now and Lone star doesnt just crumple up like a cartoon roach in a Raid commercial

[MAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!?! *BooM].

At the same time, you dont want to point the Magic gun the other way. So you need some Mage-hunter type characters. Of course they have ultrasound! Its the best vision all around! Before you can get line of sight you will have to overcome their mundane Infiltration and camouflage. Willpower augmentation and Spell Resistance will be part of any smart merc's arsenal.

If you dont want Overkill VS Overkill, or a spirit boxing match, have your mage be a counter-mage. Load him up with tons of banishing and counterspelling, with some visibility reduction and a couple tricks to keep him alive. And dont be afraid to use the characters' MO to load a trap for them.

[Marwynn]

Drone support.

That explains your sensor needs without being too overpowered. It's a fact of life that security's mostly a matter of drones and they help out immensely. Security companies aren't dumb after all, and corpsec would have all sorts of toys.

Now some of this is a matter of perspective. Two PCs should've been able to kick the butt out of four-to-six Ganger NPCs, especially if they have a couple dozen karma under their belts. Where they drugged up? Tempo?

[Ayeohx]

This is a tough concern... balancing is always a challenge when mages are involved... but generally, the mage needs to be concerned with defeating magical challenges rather than the mundane challenges that the Street Sam is concerned with, this will tend to keep the players on par... proper tools for proper tasks as it were...

Sorry that I cannot be of more direct help, but it is late...

Keep the Faith

No, excellent post Tymeaus. I forgot the main rule of a fixer. Use the right runners for the right jobs. A group with a mage are going to used for jobs that necessitates a mage's skills. Be it spirit issues (ghostbusting), stealing artifacts or a number of other magic themed runs. That is going to create quite the perception change for me since I'm not as rooted in mage running work as I am in the mundane. Thanks!

For myself, when I GM, I stress the lethality of the game system. I tell my players that if they do it right, things are smooth sailing. They usually play games where the GM thinks like you, I must "challenge" my players else it would not be "fun". They never know when the other shoe is going to drop. They can go for 2-3 runs with everything going smoothly, then on the next run, things go to hell (or they could just keep sailing smoothly on). The key is you aren't doing anything to jack up the tension, they do it to themselves. They keep second guessing,"What is he up to?" when the answer is simply,"Nothing." I always point out,"All I need is for 1 of you to screw up on 1 important roll and you are all screwed."

It's the "where the GM thinks like you" line that I need to address. I think you have me pegged incorrectly. I do not create games to cause issues for the characters necessarily, I create a fully functional world that they interact with. Any challenge that comes from that world is legitimate and never stressed to be any other thing that something that may naturally happen in the course of events. The missions that these characters are presented with are considered "challenging" only by what they are asked to do and what they are capable of. If I say "challenging" it only means that a fixer would not ask these highly trained and specialized runners to go shoplifting from Target or swipe car radios. I mean that if a fixer is to pay these individuals they need to be performing tasks that are up to what the fixer believes these runners are capable of. The right tools for the right job. And that is where my problems begins.

Of course I think I understand, it's just going to take a lot of work and reading the more magical side of SR. I'm so firmly rooted in the mundane side of shadowrunning that I struggle with the magical side. I need to create magic based runs instead of my usual and I think I'm actually looking forward to this. Thanks again gang.

[Ayeohx]

Now some of this is a matter of perspective. Two PCs should've been able to kick the butt out of four-to-six Ganger NPCs, especially if they have a couple dozen karma under their belts. Where they drugged up? Tempo?

Actually, I'm fine with 2 PC's destroying dozens of gangers, if they are intelligent about it. It depends on the gang, I suppose, but gangers aren't usually very augmented or highly trained. The typical runner is usually a somewhat stealthy murder-machine.

[toturi]

If I say "challenging" it only means that a fixer would not ask these highly trained and specialized runners to go shoplifting from Target or swipe car radios. I mean that if a fixer is to pay these individuals they need to be performing tasks that are up to what the fixer believes these runners are capable of. The right tools for the right job. And that is where my problems begins.

OK, I can go with that. To me, the job offers really depend on the fixers. If the fixer is a cautious, careful guy who makes damn sure when he sends his runners in for a job, they will succeed, then this sort of imbalanced encounters would result.

Say I am the fixer. I want my runners to succeed because when they do, it adds to my rep. My guys don't fail. So I go for overkill, I am willing to pay a premium for success, I am willing to take a smaller cut because I am looking out for the long term. Maybe I am small time, but I am bed-rock-secure small time.

It is up to you what odds the fixer is willing to take or how much risk is acceptable. My players know that if they get a job from Fixer A, it is small potatoes but they won't go hungry or get dead. If Fixer B calls, it is lucrative but risky. Perhaps you can vary the fixers and Johnsons that give them the jobs. Risky jobs may have an enemy mage on tap or go up against paranormal critters.