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 Mages : How do I Handle Them?, Theyr in my gamez killing my missionz |
 Oct 23 2009, 01:54 AM
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#76
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Prime Runner Ascendant  Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022  |
QUOTE (The Overlord @ Oct 22 2009, 04:40 PM)  While most of the ideas i was going to suggest have already been covered, here is one that no one seems to have mentioned, RFID tags. The book describes them as being everywhere and anywhere. Cloths, packages, food, and so much more. While mainly used for commercial purposes, there are other applications. Since they are constantly broadcasting to the world, a careless runner is essentially a walking beacon to all sensors that pick up the RFID. No amount of invisibility or sense blocking can stop it from transmitting its existence. So even the highest force Invisibility will be worthless when the security sensors detect that someone with Ares Victory brand boxers and recently consumed soy chips is walking down an otherwise empty corridor. Even if the players disable any RFID tags that might be on them before a run, sprinkle a couple hand full of security RFID tags around key points partially covered in an adheasive so that when the player comes in contact with them then they are now walking around with RFID tags that are out of place. And being so small and innocuous that they are easily overlooked. Mitsuhama tends to use a Nano-RFID tag in spray misters at key points in their security scheme... this keeps track of those individuals in the building quite nicely... Most people do not think to look for stuff like that... A lot of People (Dumpshockers) do not like the ubiquitousness of RFID... I say go with it... It fits the themes of Cyberpunk quite nicely in my opinion... Keep the Faith |
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Oct 23 2009, 08:36 AM
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#77
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
QUOTE (The Overlord @ Oct 23 2009, 01:40 AM) a careless runner is essentially a walking beacon to all sensors that pick up the RFID. A careless runner is a dead runner anyway. |
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Oct 23 2009, 04:01 PM
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#78
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Blade @ Oct 23 2009, 02:36 AM) A careless runner is a dead runner anyway. Ain't that the Truth... Keep the Faith |
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Oct 23 2009, 04:11 PM
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#79
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 687 Joined: 22-October 09 Member No.: 17,783 |
QUOTE (The Overlord @ Oct 22 2009, 06:40 PM) While most of the ideas i was going to suggest have already been covered, here is one that no one seems to have mentioned, RFID tags. The book describes them as being everywhere and anywhere. Cloths, packages, food, and so much more. While mainly used for commercial purposes, there are other applications. Since they are constantly broadcasting to the world, a careless runner is essentially a walking beacon to all sensors that pick up the RFID. No amount of invisibility or sense blocking can stop it from transmitting its existence. So even the highest force Invisibility will be worthless when the security sensors detect that someone with Ares Victory brand boxers and recently consumed soy chips is walking down an otherwise empty corridor. Even if the players disable any RFID tags that might be on them before a run, sprinkle a couple hand full of security RFID tags around key points partially covered in an adheasive so that when the player comes in contact with them then they are now walking around with RFID tags that are out of place. And being so small and innocuous that they are easily overlooked. The wise mage is aware of RFID, and takes the appropriate spells to respond. Excellant point though, the great thing about the shadowrun world is there is a challenge for every situation, and a solution to it, if you are just smart and plan ahead. |
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Oct 23 2009, 04:39 PM
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#80
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,325 Joined: 2-April 07 From: The Center of the Universe Member No.: 11,360 |
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 22 2009, 08:54 PM) A lot of People (Dumpshockers) do not like the ubiquitousness of RFID... I say go with it... It fits the themes of Cyberpunk quite nicely in my opinion... IMHO-it is so ubiquitous that any runner worth the name takes care of the of this as SOP regardless of the players stating so. Only an idiot wouldn't erase all the tags. Of course the downside is that in a AAA area, not advertising your brand of lingerie could raise suspicion as the normal folk wouldn't even bother. ALso, I assume the RFID's in foods last only for a few moments as the digestive juices in ones stomach woul eventuall destroy them. |
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Oct 23 2009, 04:46 PM
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#81
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Depends on what the tags are coated in, it's possible now to pass things all of the way through the digestive tract.
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Oct 23 2009, 06:48 PM
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#82
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,989 Joined: 28-July 09 From: Somewhere along the brazilian coast Member No.: 17,437 |
QUOTE (Ravor @ Oct 23 2009, 01:46 PM) Depends on what the tags are coated in, it's possible now to pass things all of the way through the digestive tract. And quite possibly have a small flashlight of sorts and film the entire trip until being finally "ejected" from your body (I know, I'm disgusting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) ) |
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Oct 23 2009, 06:53 PM
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#83
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 304 Joined: 23-April 09 From: Canada eh? Member No.: 17,109 |
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Oct 23 2009, 02:48 PM) And quite possibly have a small flashlight of sorts and film the entire trip until being finally "ejected" from your body (I know, I'm disgusting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) ) It is also quite possible to have said tag broadcast an ARO showing the live bowel footage to anyone looking in your direction. The future is discusting sometimes. |
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Oct 23 2009, 07:02 PM
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#84
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 986 Joined: 29-June 07 Member No.: 12,093 |
I wonder if it'd be possible to create some sorta simsense recording of that. I'm sure there'd be a niche in the 6th world for it...
RFIDs are more of a generic shadow-counter, and something I feel that should only come up if you need to up the difficulty of a run or teach your team lessons in discretion. Not specifically to punch the mage in the face which can be done directly and far more effectively. |
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Oct 24 2009, 12:54 AM
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#85
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
So I've got a question, but note that I'm playing SR3. What can be done about the Concealment power? It seems extremely effective. Is it noticeable in the astral like Invisibility is? Right now my players are using Force 8 spirits to activate Concealment, and it works on all perception checks to find them (even scent) so it's very hard to deal with.
JaronK |
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Oct 24 2009, 12:58 AM
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#86
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (JaronK @ Oct 23 2009, 06:54 PM) So I've got a question, but note that I'm playing SR3. What can be done about the Concealment power? It seems extremely effective. Is it noticeable in the astral like Invisibility is? Right now my players are using Force 8 spirits to activate Concealment, and it works on all perception checks to find them (even scent) so it's very hard to deal with. JaronK Concealment actually works in Astral just like in Physical Space... To contrrol it in our game, teh GM rules that you must be actively concealed (As in Hiding) and immobile for the power to work... May not be exactly Canon, but it does limit its abuseability somewhat... However, the Spirit will be visible if he is in the area, unless under the concealment as well... Keep the Faith |
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Oct 24 2009, 03:58 AM
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#87
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
If I remember correctly though, Concealment shouldn't work in the manner which it does based off of it's classifaction, much like how Turn to Goo and Petify doesn't work the way that they "should".
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Oct 24 2009, 03:46 PM
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#88
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Ravor @ Oct 23 2009, 08:58 PM) If I remember correctly though, Concealment shouldn't work in the manner which it does based off of it's classifaction, much like how Turn to Goo and Petify doesn't work the way that they "should". In what way Ravor? |
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Oct 24 2009, 06:52 PM
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#89
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Isn't Concealment classified as a "Physical" Power? If so then it shouldn't be able to affect anything in the Astral at all. If it is instead classified as being "Astral" in nature drones and technology should be immune to it's effects.
Of course, that is assuming that my memory of Concealment hasn't been fogged over by other more pleasent things. |
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Oct 24 2009, 06:59 PM
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#90
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 986 Joined: 29-June 07 Member No.: 12,093 |
QUOTE ("SR4A p.293") Concealment Type: P • Action: Simple • Range: LOS • Duration: Sustained This power refers to a critter’s ability to mystically hide itself or others, or alternatively to hide something that people are looking for. Concealment subtracts a number of dice equal to the critter’s Magic from any Perception Tests to locate the concealed subject. Concealment can be used on a number of targets simultaneously equal to the critter’s Magic; concealed subjects can see each other if the critter allows it. Concealment also allows dual natured critters to conceal themselves and others from astral detection. So yeah, it is a Physical power. It also states that a Dual-Natured critter can conceal themselves and others astrally. QUOTE ("SR4A p. 186") Spirits in physical form are in fact dual-natured, interacting with the physical and astral planes simultaneously. Meaning it's perfectly legal and overpowered. |
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Oct 24 2009, 07:04 PM
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#91
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Sure, but I seem to recall a general rule that makes it clear that Physical Powers don't get to work on the Astral, which Concealment then goes on to break.
Just as Turn to Goo and Petrify breaks the general rule that makes it clear that cyber is treated the same as flesh as far as magic is concerned. |
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Oct 24 2009, 07:05 PM
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#92
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 175 Joined: 19-October 09 Member No.: 17,767 |
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Oct 23 2009, 07:48 PM) And quite possibly have a small flashlight of sorts and film the entire trip until being finally "ejected" from your body (I know, I'm disgusting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) ) Actually this already exists. It's called capsule endoscopy. |
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Oct 24 2009, 07:15 PM
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#93
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Ravor @ Oct 24 2009, 12:04 PM) Sure, but I seem to recall a general rule that makes it clear that Physical Powers don't get to work on the Astral, which Concealment then goes on to break. Just as Turn to Goo and Petrify breaks the general rule that makes it clear that cyber is treated the same as flesh as far as magic is concerned. Yeah, I remember those converstions from a few months ago... I have given up on this aspect as I got hammered by several Dumpshockers for my point of view at the time... oh well... Either way, Concealment is a pretty powerful ability... Which is why our GM has determined that it only works when actively hiding and using minimal movement... Kind of like Spawn hiding against the wall with his cloak, concealed but not moving... Keep the Faith |
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Oct 24 2009, 07:19 PM
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#94
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Aye, tis one of the downsides of being mellow Ravor, I tend to shrug away idiots being idiots more easily... hmm, probably better on my blood pressure though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)
DISCLAIMER FOR MORONS; kindly note the smilies I posted, see, there are three of them... |
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Oct 24 2009, 07:22 PM
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#95
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Ravor @ Oct 24 2009, 12:19 PM) Aye, tis one of the downsides of being mellow Ravor, I tend to shrug away idiots being idiots more easily... hmm, probably better on my blood pressure though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) DISCLAIMER FOR MORONS; kindly note the smilies I posted, see, there are three of them... Mellow Ravor is definitely an improvement over Angry, Pissed Off, Frustrated Ravor anyday... Keep the Faith... |
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Oct 24 2009, 09:06 PM
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#96
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Aww, you say the sweetest things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)
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Oct 24 2009, 09:17 PM
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#97
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Ravor @ Oct 24 2009, 02:06 PM) Aww, you say the sweetest things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) Not really, No... Just acknowledging that Mellow is always better than Angry/Frustrated... you can definitely tell the difference in the posts... Mellow is also better for MY blood Pressure as well... Keep the Faith |
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Oct 24 2009, 11:32 PM
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#98
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
*chuckles* Hey now, even at my worst I don't think I ripped off anyone's face who didn't deserve it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)
Well ... maybe once or twice ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) ... a day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) |
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Oct 25 2009, 12:12 AM
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#99
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Ravor @ Oct 24 2009, 04:32 PM) *chuckles* Hey now, even at my worst I don't think I ripped off anyone's face who didn't deserve it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif) Well ... maybe once or twice ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) ... a day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do... Keep the Faith |
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Oct 25 2009, 07:53 AM
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#100
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Well, altering Concealment so it works like a broad spectrum Improved Invisibility would be an appropriate change (so it still doesn't work astrally) but is there any realistic way to deal with it from a high force spirit without changing any rules?
JaronK |
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