[X] My Assistant

[Joe Chummer]

on the topic of art, so far i think one of the best in SR4 is part of emergence.

its the one where you have a girl next to a shop window or something, and the reflection is not matching up.

btw, how many of the artists that worked on earlier SR versions came from a B&W comics background?

and also, how much of the current SR art is delivered as color and then grayscaled, and/or delivered in a vector graphics format (where the computer do the finer points of the shading and curves)?

Any art with grays in it has more than likely been grayscaled. Most artists simply don't paint in black, white, and gray.

As far as vector art goes, I don't think there is much of that in SR, if at all. Some of the actual page layout borders and "Welcome to Jackpoint" pages might have vector elements in them, but I don't think there is any 100% vector art in the SR4 books.

Also, I know in at least one SR4 splatbook (can't recall which) there are a lot of art from the same artist in a particular section that you can tell was drawn with either India ink or black art marker, since the art was scanned in as a grayscale file, rather than scanned as a pure B/W, monochromatic file (you can see all the brush/penstrokes rather than it being solid black lines, line in B/W line art). The art itself isn't bad; just the way that they were scanned makes these pieces look unprofessional.

When I get a chance, I'll see if I can find the specific reference of what I'm talking about.

[Blade]

As far as vector art goes, I don't think there is much of that in SR, if at all. Some of the actual page layout borders and "Welcome to Jackpoint" pages might have vector elements in them, but I don't think there is any 100% vector art in the SR4 books.

A few images in the SR4 gear section are vector arts (the commlink and the medkit for example), you can see it by zooming on them in the PDF.

[Malachi]

I'm not sure that has to be true though Malachi. I get that it generally is, but I'm not sure I agree it has to be. Of course that's not my choice to make. You still haven't answered my question by the way.

Question? Sorry, I must have missed it.

[Synner667]

So, now i'm back after a few days away...
How's the trip down memory lane going for everyone ??

Anything constructive ??

[i101]

This is maybe not quite offtopic, but if I have the chance, I will still ask (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .
Been working on tweaking the sr4 rules for a 2050+ setting. And therefore I could need some advices on costs for cyberdecks. I tried this here: Response costs have been multiply by four times, and firewall and system doubled. Somehow I think that hardware and OS prices are still too cheap. Furthermore I have been playing with the idea too offer only predetermined cyberdecks, means with fixed value in response, firewall and system. The components could then be only upgraded to a maximum of +2.


Cyberdecks 2050+
Radio Shack PCD-100
-Response (1)
-Availability (4)
-Price (1,000 Nuyen)

Allegiance Alpha
-Response (2)
-Availability (4)
-Price (3,000 Nuyen)

Sony CTY-360
-Response (3)
-Availability (8 )
-Price (5,000 Nuyen)

Fuchi Cyber-6
-Response (4)
-Availability (10)
-Price (8,000 Nuyen)

Fuchi Cyber-7
-Response (5)
-Availability (12)
-Price (16,000 Nuyen)

Fairlight Excalibur
-Response (6)
-Availability (16)
-Price (32,000 Nuyen)

[tete]

I would go with Response = MCPC rating /2 rounded down. And Firewall etc are = Response or Response -1. Or you could do Response-1 x 2 (minimum 1), then spend points how you like with a max rating of the response rating. That would be old skool.

[edit] On prices the Cyber-4 should cost 32,000 using sr4 prices. It cost about the same as wired reflexes level 2 in 2050

[i101]

I would go with Response = MCPC rating /2 rounded down. And Firewall etc are = Response or Response -1. Or you could do Response-1 x 2 (minimum 1), then spend points how you like with a max rating of the response rating. That would be old skool.

[edit] On prices the Cyber-4 should cost 32,000 using sr4 prices. It cost about the same as wired reflexes level 2 in 2050

Sorry its getting later over here, therefore I am not sure if I understood you correct. Did you mean that for example level 3 response should cost half of level 3 MCPC?

Cheers

[tete]

The response of the decks is equal to the old MCPC rating of the deck divided by 2 rounded down.

[joe12south]

1. Japanese and Tribal influences were everywhere. White people weren't the overwelming majority.

2. Racism was a huge part of the game. If you were meta, it meant getting bounced out of bars, and extra brawls.

3. Bots and otaku didn't overrun the matrix, Deckers did. Ice would also hit you hard. (if you didn't pizza time it) It was also more of a manual hunt for hidden files instead of see how long your bot will take to find it.

4. Getting wired had benefits. When speed is king, your fastest street sam meant the difference of life and death. Burning out wasn't as trendy.

5. Losing magic could be very bad. Taking a deadly meant good chance of magic loss. People also seemed to have less swarms of spirits floating around.

6. NPC's with regeneration were to be feared!

7. Adepts and mages with foci were slower, but were the only way to overcome spirits/bugs.

8. You could deck naked.

9. Deckers did decking, riggers drove and mages stayed in meat space/astral space. Archtypes were more delineated.

10. Tom Dowd, Nigel Findley

SR2 is cyberpunk.
SR4 is cyberemo. It sits in a corner crying and cutting it's wrists for attention.

Well said!

I strongly dislike removing the delineation between deckers/riggers and mages/shamans. They're very different personalities and styles, flip sides of the same coins. I wouldn't trust a geek to fly me into the NAN lights-off, nor would I want a gear-head trying to score paydata.

[hobgoblin]

and so because they use the same rules, they must be the same personalities?

[Paul]

Question? Sorry, I must have missed it.

I asked if you were a freelancer, or otherwise employed by the people who run Shadowrun?

[Malachi]

I asked if you were a freelancer, or otherwise employed by the people who run Shadowrun?

Oh. I suppose I am "technically" a freelancer, but my contributions to date amount to two 750-word stores in Seattle 2072. I may have the opportunity to write more material in the future, but I'm not writing anything currently.

[BlueMax]

and so because they use the same rules, they must be the same personalities?

I think they were talking about the game. Games have rules and structure.
Freeplay storytelling is another matter.

Memory Lane. When first ed fell into my lap, the rules, system and story were integrated and played off of each other. That is something I miss.


BlueMax

[i101]

Here we go again. Thanks to tetes hint, I found a way to abstract the prices for Cyberdecks. A Fuchi Cyber-4 costed back in the days, almoste as much as the Wired Reflexes L2 (150,000Ny). If we say that a Fuchi Cyber-4 equals a Response of L4, and we equate this on the price of Wired Reflexes L2 2070, the SR4 price for a Fuchi Cyber-4 would be 32,000Ny.
Now comes the funny part, a Fuchi Cyber-6 was back in the days (2.0x) dearer, the Cyber-7 (3.4x) and the Fairlight Excalibur (6.6x) dearer then the Fuchi Cyber-4. Vice versa was it with the Radio Shack (0.04x), Allegiance Alpha (0.09x) and the Sony CTY (0,75x). Afer comparing Cyberdeck prices of the 1e, I came up with the following prices for the 4e:

Radio Shack PCD-100
-Response: 1
-Availability: 4
-Price: 1,280 Nuyen

Allegiance Alpha
-Response: 2
-Availability: 4
-Price: 2,880 Nuyen

Sony CTY-360
-Response: 3
-Availability: 8
-Price: 24,000 Nuyen

Fuchi Cyber-4
-Response: 4
-Availability: 10
-Price: 32,000 Nuyen

Fuchi Cyber-6
-Response: 5
-Availability: 12
-Price: 64,000 Nuyen

Fuchi Cyber-7
-Response: 6
-Availability: 16
-Price: 108,800 Nuyen

Fairlight Excalibur
-Response: 7
-Availability: 20
-Price: 211,200 Nuyen

I am still not sure how to handle Firewall and System. I like tetes suggestions to spend points on Firewall and System, with a max rating of the Response rating. But I havent got an idea how to get this into a relative plausible formular, like I did with the Response costs. Either an OS should be included in some low level form, for example in form of free points in altitude of the Response level (at least 1 for each OS component), or I would have to create some cheap prices for Firewall and System. If I remeber correct, Cyberdecks in 2050 came with all necessary hardware components to run the matrix. Furthermore, how should upgrades be handled? And what about Sim-Module? Sim-Modules would be equivalent to 2050's Response Increase (Analougs to wired reflexes). Each level of Responses Increases modified the deckers Reaction attribute. Acutally the same what a Sim-Module does in 2070, only that Sim-Modules are cheap compared to Response Increases from the 50ies (L1: 25,000Ny, L2: 100,000Ny, L3: 250,000Ny). Increasing costs for Sim-Modules would slow a beginning Decker down in the Matrix, and make IC and Agents more powerfull and dangerous. Last but not least, has anyone thought about Storage? Back in days programms and data used onboard memory...

Sigh.. So much to do.

[tete]

Nice work, I might raise the prices a bit (to put the fairlight over 250k and the fuchi-7 right below 250k) but that is much closer to old skool.

Sigh.. So much to do.

This is one of the reasons we went back to 3e for a 2050 game. Still not as accurate as 2e but its closer.

[i101]

Nice work, I might raise the prices a bit (to put the fairlight over 250k and the fuchi-7 right below 250k) but that is much closer to old skool.

Thanks tete. I think I am gonna keep the prices this way, but maybe I should raise the availability for the fuchi-7 and fairlaight a bit, which would influence into the price. I am still not sure if to inlcude an Operating System based on free points, or to work out some stand alone prices for firewall and system modules.

A good 1e conversion will take some time if we wanna keep the main 4e core mechanics. Playing the 3th edition aint the real deal for my group. Like I said, next step is the Operating System, and then I am gonna reintroduce the vehicle control rig.

Again, advices are welcome.
Cheers